General Discussion

disequilibrium1

(1 post)

289. Shades of gray here

Thu Jul 3, 2014, 05:48 PM

Jul 2014

The family's exaggerations notwithstanding, there was definite smoke to the fire here. One of the team leaders and early diagnosticians, Simona Bujoreanu, has co-written journal articles on somatoform disorder and was on at least one study team.
http://www.psychosomaticsjournal.com/article/S0033-3182%2814%2900080-2/abstract
She appears an eager beaver publicist for the disorder, suspecting it behind all that difficult-to-diagnose shrubbery.

Another BCH team member, Alice Newton, is also a prolific journal contributor on the subject of child abuse:
http://connects.catalyst.harvard.edu/profiles/display/person/9499

According to the Boston Globe the utterly flippant term for separating a child from a parent -- parent-ectomy-- is part of the BCH pediatric team's vocabulary.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/12/15/justina/vnwzbbNdiodSD7WDTh6xZI/story.html

I don't know how anyone could justify locking a kid in a ward a year and a half, depriving her of school, church, friends and family contact, while doctors squabbled about a diagnosis. Apparently psych providers don't realize they're implementing paralogical science to begin with.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

443 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

We failed her. Big time. Boston Children�s was experimenting on Justina Pelletier, [View all] pnwmom Jul 2014 OP

After reading this, I'm as outraged by this case as you are, but you realize tularetom Jul 2014 #1

The problem is that they are the ONLY places where you can find an interview pnwmom Jul 2014 #5

It's always been right wing sources. They've taken up this cause. kcr Jul 2014 #22

How do you see it? pnwmom Jul 2014 #51

She wasn't kidnapped to beging with and I doubt highly that she was tortured or expiremented on kcr Jul 2014 #54

She wasn't kidnapped? The parents lost custody for more than 16 months pnwmom Jul 2014 #60

Losing custody isn't the same as being kidnapped. n/t kcr Jul 2014 #61

It's just a matter of diction in circumstances like this. But you were the person pnwmom Jul 2014 #79

Only if you frame it the way the RW lunatics are. n/t kcr Jul 2014 #81

To the family, that's exactly how it felt. They brought their sick child to see a G.I. doc pnwmom Jul 2014 #98

As opposed to all the other families who've lost custody, who admit their wrongdoing kcr Jul 2014 #102

The critical difference here is that the state's only claim against them is that they were pnwmom Jul 2014 #109

And it could possibly be true kcr Jul 2014 #112

The state shouldn't grab custody for 16 months because of something that could "possibly be true." pnwmom Jul 2014 #114

Of course not kcr Jul 2014 #116

There's zero evidence that the parents were overmedicalizing her. pnwmom Jul 2014 #119

And you know this how? From the parents and their media representation? kcr Jul 2014 #122

From the Boston Globe and the Hartford Courant. pnwmom Jul 2014 #127

So? That can't possibly be a reason to remove a child from care? kcr Jul 2014 #130

It was NOT a good reason to remove a child from care pnwmom Jul 2014 #137

How do we know they didn't bother? Did they admit that themselves? kcr Jul 2014 #143

Because I believe the Tufts doctor, and that was his sworn testimony at a hearing. pnwmom Jul 2014 #149

One doctor, who isn't convinced his own diagnosis may be wrong. kcr Jul 2014 #151

He testified that the doctors wouldn't speak with him. That was evidence. pnwmom Jul 2014 #158

That's not evidence they didn't consult with anyone. kcr Jul 2014 #160

They didn't consult with the ONE person who knew more about her case and pnwmom Jul 2014 #166

Doctors are never wrong. Except when the ones not on your side. kcr Jul 2014 #169

So why should the state be able to choose the diagnosis of the psychiatrists pnwmom Jul 2014 #173

It's your and the parent's claim that that's what happened. kcr Jul 2014 #180

I'm not alleging a conspiracy. But there is overwhelming evidence pnwmom Jul 2014 #182

What evidence? kcr Jul 2014 #183

Read the court documents. You can find them. n/t pnwmom Jul 2014 #185

I have. kcr Jul 2014 #197

The Boston docs refused to even liberalhistorian Jul 2014 #287

Claims made by the parents and their supporters kcr Jul 2014 #303

Sorry, but her own CT doctors liberalhistorian Jul 2014 #308

That's assuming the claim about it being about a disagreement over a diagnosis is correct. kcr Jul 2014 #309

Taking a child away from her parents is supposed to require some evidence to back it up. pnwmom Jul 2014 #436

In this case, it was, it's just a matter liberalhistorian Jul 2014 #285

Parents who've had their children removed aren't allowed to see their children whenever they want kcr Jul 2014 #302

So parents who suddenly and without hardly liberalhistorian Jul 2014 #310

What psychiatrist said he didn't believe in it? BCH has specialists in mitochondial disease. kcr Jul 2014 #311

What you are saying might have made some sense before but everything is completely pnwmom Jul 2014 #326

If BC admitted they were wrong, it should be easy for you to show where that happened. kcr Jul 2014 #331

They recommended she be returned to her old doctors and her family. That is fact. nt pnwmom Jul 2014 #334

And that's admitting they were wrong how? kcr Jul 2014 #335

Save your fingertips. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #341

Way to twist my words. kcr Jul 2014 #350

"It's stating there's a lack of evidence." Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #356

I'm not accusing the Pelletiers of lying. I just require evidence to back up their claims. kcr Jul 2014 #358

"I'm not accusing the Pelletiers of lying. I just require evidence to back up their claims." Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #360

I guess my bias is showing by not accepting a questionable source kcr Jul 2014 #364

Either the video is an accurate depiciton of reality or it is not. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #368

My assertion isn't that it's not accurate. My assertion is the source is questionable. kcr Jul 2014 #373

Nothing makes it questionable except your bias. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #376

My bias against RW sources? Guilty as charged. kcr Jul 2014 #378

The RW didn't create the video. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #383

So if a UFO conspiracy site doesn't actually make the video they post as evidence kcr Jul 2014 #384

What you're being required to defend is your unsupported, evidence-free allegations. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #392

It's unsupported that RW sources can't be trusted? kcr Jul 2014 #394

That's not what I said and you know it. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #403

It seems that's what you're saying to me. kcr Jul 2014 #406

There was NO significant evidence of harm, abuse, or neglect. None. Zero. Zilch. pnwmom Jul 2014 #438

Justina isn't a UFO. She's a real human being, who people like you pnwmom Jul 2014 #437

What frightens me the most about it is liberalhistorian Jul 2014 #284

good for McDermott KT2000 Jul 2014 #2

We don't know the whole story and I'm skeptical this is the whole truth. n/t seaglass Jul 2014 #3

The fact is that the state finally returned her to the care of her Tufts doctors, pnwmom Jul 2014 #6

Appreciate McDermott, the OP and analysis more than you'll ever know. You have my heartfelt thanks. freshwest Jul 2014 #276

Thank you, freshwest! n/t pnwmom Jul 2014 #277

Same here Lee-Lee Jul 2014 #14

I'm sure there will be more once the parents file suit. pnwmom Jul 2014 #17

It stinks to high heaven that right wing sites are the only place for "news" on this. alarimer Jul 2014 #235

The Boston Globe is a liberal paper, and the Hartford Courant is, too. pnwmom Jul 2014 #267

K&R me b zola Jul 2014 #4

Other than the "parent-ectomy", what was the experimental treatment? moriah Jul 2014 #7

A combination of withdrawing her medications -- which is a treatment in itself -- pnwmom Jul 2014 #9

If the misdiagnosis was not done intentionally, treating for a misdiagnosed condition is not.... moriah Jul 2014 #13

It is experimenting if she was enrolled as a subject in a research study pnwmom Jul 2014 #15

"Experimental treatment" vs "experimenting on kids".... moriah Jul 2014 #18

Psychological experiments might not sound as gruesome but they're still experiments. pnwmom Jul 2014 #21

"Behavior modification" sounds pretty gruesome to me - hedgehog Jul 2014 #260

It is. Imagine that you are very sick, painfully sick, with intense abdominal pain, pnwmom Jul 2014 #268

Which raises the question, just what the hell is "behavior modification"? hedgehog Jul 2014 #273

I bet we never find out. I bet that the hospital and insurance company lawyers pnwmom Jul 2014 #279

And it's used to treat ADHD, conduct disorder, etc, too. moriah Jul 2014 #278

Behavioral modification shouldn't be a legitimate treatment for somatic disorder. pnwmom Jul 2014 #288

Shades of gray here disequilibrium1 Jul 2014 #289

Thank you for all the links, disequilibrium1, pnwmom Jul 2014 #434

Is "somatic disorder" a real disease? I had the impression that the Harvard doctors came up hedgehog Jul 2014 #259

They used to think asthma was psychosomatic, until they figured out it wasn't. pnwmom Jul 2014 #269

It's in the DSM-V. moriah Jul 2014 #280

Yes, and it's very controversial. The editor of the DSM-IV pnwmom Jul 2014 #435

You aren't telling me things I don't know, I promise you. moriah Jul 2014 #442

Absolutely. A person can have both physical and mental or emotional conditions pnwmom Jul 2014 #443

I know this family gaspee Jul 2014 #8

Thank you for speaking up. To me, their "rude" reaction to the social workers pnwmom Jul 2014 #10

Justina is now also paralyzed from the waist down. riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #11

When she got the flu -- the cause of her going to the ER -- she was severely weakened pnwmom Jul 2014 #12

She now has no feeling below the waist according to the family riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #16

Please tell me this is a temporary condition. n/t Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #80

Well the Boston Children's docs, judge and MA DCF better hope so. riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #100

With mitochondrial disease, no one can know. pnwmom Jul 2014 #282

Wow! The Blaze thinks liberals are to blame. You've convinced me! FSogol Jul 2014 #19

I think many progressives who should have cared about this pnwmom Jul 2014 #23

"We"? In stories were it is difficult (to impossible) to tell who is right, FSogol Jul 2014 #28

I read enough in the Boston Globe's investigative reporting pnwmom Jul 2014 #30

"These are facts, according to the Boston Globe -- not a conservative rag." Great, then why bring FSogol Jul 2014 #32

Because Justina's video only got published by the Blaze. pnwmom Jul 2014 #34

Because they're the ones reporting the cray cray that some feel back their position kcr Jul 2014 #63

Some progressives are just statists Puzzledtraveller Jul 2014 #174

Thanks, Puzzledtraveller. pnwmom Jul 2014 #176

Do you agree with the statement that liberals are statists? kcr Jul 2014 #181

Not liberals in general, no. pnwmom Jul 2014 #184

Wait, I thought they used experimental treatments? kcr Jul 2014 #186

They did both. They withheld her medications pnwmom Jul 2014 #188

Withholding the treatments they thought were harming her is logical kcr Jul 2014 #193

No, it isn't. pnwmom Jul 2014 #201

Again. Not including that one doctor isn't evidence they didn't consult anyone else about her care. kcr Jul 2014 #207

Doesn't matter. He was the SINGLE most important doctor to consult pnwmom Jul 2014 #215

Yes, it does. kcr Jul 2014 #219

Yes, the Harvard M.D.eities "didn't wish to consult with that doctor." That says it all. n/t pnwmom Jul 2014 #222

Says what? kcr Jul 2014 #224

Of course they needed to. Obtaining her medical history would have been pnwmom Jul 2014 #227

Now the claim is they didn't obtain her medical history? kcr Jul 2014 #229

They absolutely didn't do that before making their decision -- which was done within 12 hours pnwmom Jul 2014 #232

How long does it take to obtain medical records? kcr Jul 2014 #233

The doctor needed to SPEAK to them and he was prevented from doing so. pnwmom Jul 2014 #236

It's your contention he needed to speak to them. kcr Jul 2014 #252

It is HIS contention he needed to speak to them. And he knew Justina, pnwmom Jul 2014 #255

Are you talking about her doctor from Tufts again? kcr Jul 2014 #256

BC is a consultant for DCF on medical issues. This is a fact, not tinfoil. pnwmom Jul 2014 #257

What's tinfoil is suggesting that the hospital being "consultants" is evidence of collusion. kcr Jul 2014 #306

It is evidence of conflict of interest. They weren't in the position to give a neutral opinion. pnwmom Jul 2014 #313

It seems to me that's what you're advocating kcr Jul 2014 #315

Did you read any of my previous posts? pnwmom Jul 2014 #316

Yes. I don't see the conspiracy you do. kcr Jul 2014 #322

They didn't have an imagined conflict of interest. They had a genuine conflict of interest. pnwmom Jul 2014 #325

Explain the conflict of interest kcr Jul 2014 #328

The same person performing a work pnwmom Jul 2014 #339

That's not the same thing as recognizing abuse. kcr Jul 2014 #344

The ONLY allegation of abuse was "overmedicalizing." pnwmom Jul 2014 #346

Guess what? That's a form of abuse. kcr Jul 2014 #347

Guess what? It's not overmedicalizing when it's treatment for a REAL condition pnwmom Jul 2014 #354

What does the fact that it's a REAL condition have to do with anything? kcr Jul 2014 #357

Sorry, but a source that you don't recall is worthless. I'm very familiar with the Globe pnwmom Jul 2014 #361

You got me, I'm totally making it up! Meanwhile, someone who sources the Daily Fail kcr Jul 2014 #363

At least I was open about those sources. Not telling you to trust my memory. pnwmom Jul 2014 #366

I'm not stopping you from forming your own opinions. kcr Jul 2014 #370

The Blaze was a valid source of Justina's videotaped interview. pnwmom Jul 2014 #372

Uh huh. Sure they are. kcr Jul 2014 #374

The only red flag is waving at the MSM's negligence in covering the story fully. pnwmom Jul 2014 #379

I don't think MSM needs to jump on every cause the RWers think is just. kcr Jul 2014 #380

This story was. Progressives value fairness and justice -- and children -- pnwmom Jul 2014 #381

That could be the explanation kcr Jul 2014 #385

Whatever drew the right to her cause, no one should be subjected pnwmom Jul 2014 #386

No one should be subjected to it? I disagree. Children would die if DCF were dismantled. kcr Jul 2014 #389

She had the right not to be ripped from her family and locked in a psychiatric ward pnwmom Jul 2014 #395

A judge ruled in a court of law. How much more due process do you want? kcr Jul 2014 #398

A judge rubber-stamped the DCF recommendation, which was written without pnwmom Jul 2014 #400

A judge rubber stamped the DCF rubber stamping of the hospital kidnapping. kcr Jul 2014 #401

The judge and the hospital had a longstanding, working relationship that led the judge pnwmom Jul 2014 #402

Does the working relationship involve cackling with glee from their elite ivory tower kcr Jul 2014 #404

I don't have the kind of vivid imagination you obviously do, so the answer is no. pnwmom Jul 2014 #414

I'm usually accused of the opposite when I don't believe conspiracy theories. n/t kcr Jul 2014 #415

You're the only one here alleging imaginary conspiracy theories. pnwmom Jul 2014 #420

If it walks like a conspiracy theory, etc kcr Jul 2014 #422

The judge returned Justina to continue to be "overmedicalized" by Tufts and her parents riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #407

Oh, so he didn't rubber stamp it then. Or did he rubber stamp it, then un-rubber stamp it? kcr Jul 2014 #409

I damn well hope the judge did that. As conditions changed. riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #412

It seems to me a rubber stamping careless judge wouldn't take the time to be flexible. kcr Jul 2014 #413

That better not be a typical pattern -- more than a year on a locked psychiatric ward pnwmom Jul 2014 #418

Why shouldnl't it be? The judgment to return children should be rushed? kcr Jul 2014 #421

When there's no immediate risk of serious harm, which there wasn't, any judgment pnwmom Jul 2014 #423

That's exactly what he did. At the end, he finally un-rubber stamped it. pnwmom Jul 2014 #416

Very complicated rubber stamping n/t kcr Jul 2014 #417

That's why they pay him the big bucks. n/t pnwmom Jul 2014 #419

I thought there were some strange things about this case ck4829 Jul 2014 #20

You're asking a lot of good questions. pnwmom Jul 2014 #25

Sorry, don't trust The Blaze to report this story without extreme bias...nt SidDithers Jul 2014 #24

Really. Anti-government whackos claim she was experimented on. kcr Jul 2014 #26

Rep. Jim McDermott, D-Washington, believes she was experimented on. pnwmom Jul 2014 #52

I don't think wards of the state should be expiremented on either kcr Jul 2014 #57

It is a fact that it is legal in the state of Massachusetts to enroll wards of the state pnwmom Jul 2014 #64

So, if there's a cancer drug that hasn't been approved yet kcr Jul 2014 #67

I would support an exception in that kind of situation. pnwmom Jul 2014 #72

If there is a problem with unnecessary treatments involving wards of state kcr Jul 2014 #74

Then take the word of Rep. Jim McDermott, Democrat and one of the most liberal pnwmom Jul 2014 #77

Liberal doesn't mean immune to being hoodwinked. kcr Jul 2014 #82

That's absolutely true. pnwmom Jul 2014 #93

How is that possible? The Harvard psychiatrists aren't the ones running and squawking to the media. kcr Jul 2014 #97

They believed the Harvard psychiatrists' diagnosis that she had a somatic disorder. pnwmom Jul 2014 #101

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me that's not true kcr Jul 2014 #103

You have no way of knowing. Correct. So don't you think that when there's a reasonable doubt, pnwmom Jul 2014 #107

If that were indeed the case, then yes. kcr Jul 2014 #110

Yes -- the parents were rude to the social workers. And so the social workers, apparently, pnwmom Jul 2014 #117

No, this wasn't rudeness to the social workers I'm talking about. kcr Jul 2014 #120

As reported by the social workers who felt insulted. pnwmom Jul 2014 #132

It wasn't social workers who reported this kcr Jul 2014 #138

Then don't read that. Watch the interview with Justina herself. pnwmom Jul 2014 #27

Publish or perish affects health professionals, too. So yeah, I can believe Boston Childrens McCamy Taylor Jul 2014 #29

Unfortunately, YarnAddict Jul 2014 #38

Not crying any tears for the insurance companies. McCamy Taylor Jul 2014 #106

I suspect their lawyers and insurance companies are already urging a quick settlement. n/t pnwmom Jul 2014 #141

DUers got outraged about this more than once while she was being held. ieoeja Jul 2014 #31

Some did -- but all you have to do is read this thread to find some who still pnwmom Jul 2014 #33

THAT part of the story is where I utterly disagree with the OP Trajan Jul 2014 #205

I'm not accusing liberals of hurting her. I'm asking why the MSM and the "liberal media" pnwmom Jul 2014 #270

I wish we could champion the cause of every child who isn't getting proper care... DesertDiamond Jul 2014 #35

This wasn't just a case of improper care. This was a case of the state vs. the parents. pnwmom Jul 2014 #39

The Blaze? Bluenorthwest Jul 2014 #36

If you can find another link to a video interview with Justina, pnwmom Jul 2014 #40

You do? I've heard plenty of interviews that were manipulative and selective. Bluenorthwest Jul 2014 #48

So there isn't one. Just as I thought. n/t pnwmom Jul 2014 #49

When this case has come up for discussion before YarnAddict Jul 2014 #37

Post removed Post removed Jul 2014 #41

Post a link proving that or admit that you're lying. n/t pnwmom Jul 2014 #46

Just check on google news and you will see pnwmom Jul 2014 #43

I see what you mean. YarnAddict Jul 2014 #47

Yes, exactly. The Boston Globe got the ball rolling, but most of the media quickly pnwmom Jul 2014 #50

I thought it was the Globe YarnAddict Jul 2014 #53

Right. The Herald is the right wing paper, the Globe's on the left. pnwmom Jul 2014 #56

Hopefully your family members YarnAddict Jul 2014 #58

Thanks. pnwmom Jul 2014 #62

As a Moderator of an 11,000 member group aimed at Freeing Justina fcefxer Jul 2014 #292

It is a shame that YarnAddict Jul 2014 #293

The liberal media is in on it, too? kcr Jul 2014 #305

No, the problem is that most of the MSM did not "get in on it." pnwmom Jul 2014 #427

Thank you very much for the info, fcefxer. pnwmom Jul 2014 #426

Something doesn't square about this story. Helen Borg Jul 2014 #42

Typical reaction. Harvard docs could never be wrong, pnwmom Jul 2014 #44

Mass DCF is the most incompent and corrupt governement organization you can imagine hack89 Jul 2014 #45

Of course it is. That's always the claim, no matter where these stories happen kcr Jul 2014 #55

No - some government agencies bad hack89 Jul 2014 #65

Oh, some agencies. Funny how it's always the ones featured in RW anti-government screeds. kcr Jul 2014 #69

More than 95 kids have died since 2001 while in the custody of DCF hack89 Jul 2014 #70

DCF is horribly underfunded kcr Jul 2014 #78

They are still woefully incompent regardless of the reasons - they are killing kids hack89 Jul 2014 #84

The kids are killed in foster care. kcr Jul 2014 #88

They die at a higher rate under DCF care hack89 Jul 2014 #99

More children die under DCF than by the hands of their own parents? kcr Jul 2014 #105

Exactly how many kids should die under DCF? merrily Jul 2014 #124

None. But claiming DCF kills more needs to be backed up. kcr Jul 2014 #125

This is what the Boston Globe has to say hack89 Jul 2014 #133

That's not the same thing. kcr Jul 2014 #153

Where in fuck do you get this anti- government shit from? hack89 Jul 2014 #157

Because it's anti-government folks who've taken up their case kcr Jul 2014 #161

So anyone who supports them has to be anti-government? hack89 Jul 2014 #208

No. kcr Jul 2014 #209

So instead of smearing me as RW hack89 Jul 2014 #211

Where did I smear you as RW? kcr Jul 2014 #217

Every time you try to deflect the conversation hack89 Jul 2014 #218

I didn't associate you with them. kcr Jul 2014 #220

"BUt the solution isn't to side with anti-government whackos" hack89 Jul 2014 #223

Well it isn't. Underfunding DCF is the wrong solution. kcr Jul 2014 #228

Ok nt hack89 Jul 2014 #240

Only because the rest of the media dropped the ball. pnwmom Jul 2014 #272

Remind me who has underfunded Mass DCF for decades. Government, right? merrily Jul 2014 #123

It isn't liberal progressives pushing for underfunding. n/t kcr Jul 2014 #128

LOL, a non sequitur, a straw man and a moved goalpost, all in one sentence. merrily Jul 2014 #134

A non sequitor? It's ultra right wingers pressing these claims kcr Jul 2014 #136

Sorry, that's non-sequitur. My bad. But, yes, you posted a non-sequitur. merrily Jul 2014 #144

I'm repeating it because it's true. kcr Jul 2014 #146

"Political forces were at play." I call bullshit. merrily Jul 2014 #152

What is bullshit about my claim? kcr Jul 2014 #154

Please see Reply 146. Thanks. merrily Jul 2014 #156

146 shows up for me as my own reply kcr Jul 2014 #165

Sorry. Charge the error up to boredom. I meant Reply 152. merrily Jul 2014 #171

Oh, the one where you continue to ignore kcr Jul 2014 #189

Please see Reply 152. Thanks. merrily Jul 2014 #191

The parents asked everyone they could think of to help them and a year later pnwmom Jul 2014 #317

So all the liberals who ignored it are in on it, too. kcr Jul 2014 #323

Yes. Good thing someone finally helped them. pnwmom Jul 2014 #324

Parents reacting strongly to losing their children. Because that normally doesn't happen? kcr Jul 2014 #333

They were WRONG. She has a metabolic disease and that's why they CHANGED pnwmom Jul 2014 #336

No, you're only believing the spin that returning her to her parents is evidence they were wrong. kcr Jul 2014 #337

Why not immediately admit their mistake? Good question. pnwmom Jul 2014 #338

Well, of course. Evil Elite Doctors have egos. That explains everything! n/t kcr Jul 2014 #348

Those doctors obviously did. They wouldn't even allow the Pelletiers pnwmom Jul 2014 #353

If only there was some way to break the RW's ironclad reign in Massachusetts. n/t Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #340

Where do I claim they have reign? kcr Jul 2014 #345

I was responding to your sub-thread that DCF in Massachusetts was under-funded. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #349

Now, this makes no sense. kcr Jul 2014 #351

You claim DCF is under-funded. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #359

Whatevs. I was responding to a poster that claimed they are corrupt kcr Jul 2014 #362

"But go ahead and point out where DCF is actually adequately funded, by all means." Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #365

Oh, believe me I know it. Right wingers think it's funded plenty. kcr Jul 2014 #367

RWers don't write the budget in Massachusetts. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #369

I know, it's like believing in Santa, isn't it? kcr Jul 2014 #371

I didn't say RWers don't exist and you know that. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #375

You say you're not saying it. Then you go on to repeat the claim. kcr Jul 2014 #377

Just because it can be cut doesn't mean it has been cut. If you're Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #382

But because it's a right wing source kcr Jul 2014 #390

Show us these alleged cuts. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #393

Show that right wing sources are to be trusted and never manipulate kcr Jul 2014 #396

This sub-thread is about your allegation of cuts to the DCF budget, not the video. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #405

Then why are we discussing the video? kcr Jul 2014 #408

In this sub-thread I have confined my comments to the MA budget. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #410

Oh, wait. My bad. You're right. kcr Jul 2014 #411

I'm not arguing if RW sources are valid and you know it. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #439

You'd think if they were so short of funds they wouldn't be wasting their money pnwmom Jul 2014 #425

PNW, please use "DoNotLink" for crank sites like The Blaze and Guardian LV. alp227 Jul 2014 #59

Thanks, apl227. I've just learned something new. pnwmom Jul 2014 #68

Excellent post. K&R. I hope when Justina and her family sue they win a huge award. Louisiana1976 Jul 2014 #66

They're all in individual and family therapy, so I doubt they're going to sue frazzled Jul 2014 #76

She got better?? She's now paralyzed from the waist down. No feeling below the waist riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #96

Read all the articles, not just the claptrap in right-wing rags frazzled Jul 2014 #145

I read that on ABC News... riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #179

Read all the Boston Globe articles. And those on Hartford Courant. pnwmom Jul 2014 #203

She didn't get better physically. She's happier because they finally let her go. pnwmom Jul 2014 #104

Good for the author's mea culpa but most here at DU were on the right side of this. n/t Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #71

As someone who has been posting on her behalf, I ran into plenty of DUers pnwmom Jul 2014 #75

I would hate think you're right about the resistance you've encountered but nowadays Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #85

Thanks, Nuclear Unicorn. You can see the range of reactions just to this OP alone. pnwmom Jul 2014 #87

And then there's the range of opinions in general on DU kcr Jul 2014 #89

I haven't noticed anyone siding with Hobby Lobby, but I'll take your word for it. n/t pnwmom Jul 2014 #92

Just ask the poster you responded to above n/t kcr Jul 2014 #95

Right, because we totally believe anti-government whackos when it's concerning a red state. kcr Jul 2014 #86

Rep. McDermott isn't an anti-government whacko, and neither is the Boston Globe, pnwmom Jul 2014 #90

You don't strike me as an anti-government whacko, either. kcr Jul 2014 #91

Based on what? Your unsupported belief that nothing in certain sources ever contains merrily Jul 2014 #113

No kcr Jul 2014 #115

Untrue. That was substantiated by video of her ice skating before she merrily Jul 2014 #118

It's local for me, too. kcr Jul 2014 #135

The claim of paralysis was made while she was still in DCF care and merrily Jul 2014 #139

Not contradicted. Not a surprise given she was in medical care kcr Jul 2014 #140

Really? I've seen doctors talk to media about patients in whom merrily Jul 2014 #148

Oh, the doctors don't deny it or admit they were wrong? kcr Jul 2014 #150

Still nothing to say? Please see Reply 146. Thanks. merrily Jul 2014 #155

Nothing to say? I already responded to that comment kcr Jul 2014 #159

Sorry. I meant, "Still nothing of substance to say? Please see Reply 152. merrily Jul 2014 #175

The parents are reporting that. Here's an ABC news report on it riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #162

Again, the parents. kcr Jul 2014 #178

For some reason, you think parents are guilty until proven innocent. pnwmom Jul 2014 #192

No, I don't. I've repeatedly said I don't know if they're guilty or not or if the hospital kcr Jul 2014 #194

They shouldn't have been able to take her away from her parents pnwmom Jul 2014 #200

Not true. The hospital reported their suspicion, DCF acted on it and a judge ruled in their favor. kcr Jul 2014 #206

There was no compelling evidence. The DCF usually has BC investigate its cases -- pnwmom Jul 2014 #212

What support do you have for the claim there was no compelling evidence? Aside from the parents? kcr Jul 2014 #216

When you advocate take away someone's freedom, it's YOUR job to provide the compelling evidence. pnwmom Jul 2014 #226

I don't advocate taking away freedom. kcr Jul 2014 #231

The extraordinary claim was that she had munchhausen by proxy syndrome, pnwmom Jul 2014 #239

Far less common means it isn't possible? kcr Jul 2014 #242

No. But "possible" isn't the standard when you advocate taking custody from parents, pnwmom Jul 2014 #244

And your contention that was the standard is? kcr Jul 2014 #245

The hospital IS the medical staff for the DCF. There was no functional pnwmom Jul 2014 #247

DCF only takes reports from that hospital? kcr Jul 2014 #250

DCF sends cases to BC with medical issues that they're concerned about. pnwmom Jul 2014 #271

The tinfoil is suggesting that they're colluding with a sinister purpose kcr Jul 2014 #307

I didn't say that. I said there's an inherent conflict of interest pnwmom Jul 2014 #312

Conflict of interest? kcr Jul 2014 #314

You obviously don't even understand what a "conflict of interest" is. pnwmom Jul 2014 #318

It is easily verified. And it wasn't done because she has mitochondrial disease per se. pnwmom Jul 2014 #440

Use your eyeballs. She was skating a few weeks before. She's in a wheelchair now. pnwmom Jul 2014 #163

Video of her in a wheelchair taken by the parents. kcr Jul 2014 #167

There are plenty of pictures of her in the hospital and in court in a wheelchair. pnwmom Jul 2014 #170

I'm sure they'd rather not drag her in there frogmarching her and forcing her to walk. kcr Jul 2014 #177

So she's faking it. And after more than a year, the Harvard docs couldn't figure that out. Right. pnwmom Jul 2014 #187

Actually, that might be exactly what they did. kcr Jul 2014 #195

Except even B.C. has never accused Justina of that. Only you. pnwmom Jul 2014 #199

I haven't accused anyone of anything. kcr Jul 2014 #210

Then why would they agree to let her go back to her parents and the docs at Tufts riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #204

Children returning to their parents doesn't mean it was determined there was no case. kcr Jul 2014 #213

Really? Now your slip is really showing. riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #225

The claim that it's about dueling medical teams is spin kcr Jul 2014 #230

It's not spin. It's fact. pnwmom Jul 2014 #234

The parents didn't agree with the new diagnosis kcr Jul 2014 #237

They had an extremely sick daughter -- you can die from vomiting, by the way -- pnwmom Jul 2014 #241

I'm not arguing she wasn't sick kcr Jul 2014 #243

Wrong. They went to Tufts not because of the mito doctor, pnwmom Jul 2014 #246

Maybe, but I would find it hard to believe that the mito doctors weren't consulted kcr Jul 2014 #248

They finally were, months later. And eventually, after a year, the judge gave her care pnwmom Jul 2014 #249

The specialists are right there, in that hospital, but weren't consulted for months? kcr Jul 2014 #251

The GI specialist who was right there wasn't allowed to consult in her care. pnwmom Jul 2014 #253

Is that another contention from the parents? kcr Jul 2014 #254

It's not hard to believe at all, given the document that they wanted the Pelletiers to sign. pnwmom Jul 2014 #428

YES! I hope they do!! riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #238

What are... onyourleft Jul 2014 #73

The ones with Harvard degrees who get to make decisions about patients pnwmom Jul 2014 #202

Trust me: When social workers want your rights taken away, they can get them taken away. WinkyDink Jul 2014 #83

Not always. I was present when a judge refused to remove merrily Jul 2014 #131

The part I find troubling: merrily Jul 2014 #94

I am willing to consider the possibility that their egos were so large pnwmom Jul 2014 #111

Also an echo of common medical practice, not to mention common sense. merrily Jul 2014 #121

"No one has to tell Harvard docs the ABC's of medical practice." pnwmom Jul 2014 #129

No, they'd be wasting their breath. They knew very well merrily Jul 2014 #164

Thank you, merrily. pnwmom Jul 2014 #221

Correct: The Boston Globe is NOT right wing. merrily Jul 2014 #258

K&R. Crunchy Frog Jul 2014 #108

Tufts Boston Medical Ctr. originally filed allegations of neglect countryjake Jul 2014 #126

Not her doctor and not Tufts itself -- some member of the staff. pnwmom Jul 2014 #147

So her CT pediatrician wasn't actually her original doctor, either? countryjake Jul 2014 #196

Justina had what some psychiatrists at BC considered extreme procedures pnwmom Jul 2014 #198

If you have a sick child with an undiagnosed disease, of course you're going to "doctor-shop". hedgehog Jul 2014 #261

For comparison: hedgehog Jul 2014 #262

Thanks for this. Parents probably get swept up in horrible situations pnwmom Jul 2014 #266

Yes. Especially when it's a rare disease. Her CT doctor referred her pnwmom Jul 2014 #265

Very interesting and vitally important. I am looking forward to reading more, thank you. n/t Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #142

I saw this story on Dr. Phil libodem Jul 2014 #168

I'd like to see that. I'll have to see if it's online. n/t pnwmom Jul 2014 #190

K&R Puzzledtraveller Jul 2014 #172

KNR Lucinda Jul 2014 #214

I've watched this discussion with disgust. Savannahmann Jul 2014 #263

Thank you for your righteous indignation. pnwmom Jul 2014 #264

"HYPE? The girl is in a wheelchair." Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #274

It isn't only because the sources are right wing. kcr Jul 2014 #301

If it wasn't overreach, it was serious malfeasance. Savannahmann Jul 2014 #319

So, we shouldn't be snowed by those elite Harvard doctors kcr Jul 2014 #321

My point was there was no evidence. Savannahmann Jul 2014 #327

Well, isn't that a coincidence. That's my point, too. kcr Jul 2014 #329

Since when is providing medical care for your child abuse? Savannahmann Jul 2014 #330

Since people have been attempting to seek medical care unnecessarily kcr Jul 2014 #332

I imagine it's difficult to walk across the room with blinders like that on. Savannahmann Jul 2014 #342

Not at all. Children need protection and sometimes that means from their parents. kcr Jul 2014 #343

It doesn't apply in this case. Savannahmann Jul 2014 #355

I'm just going to stand over here by you. Righteous rant. Thanks for this nt riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #387

"But claiming the parents are unfit for following medical advice is the question here" kcr Jul 2014 #399

Really? Savannahmann Jul 2014 #424

That is all they were ever accused of doing and you know it. The documents are out there now pnwmom Jul 2014 #432

+ a million. Thanks for this. pnwmom Jul 2014 #431

Not at all. Savannahmann Jul 2014 #441

In this case a child needed protection from the psychiatrists at BC and the state of MA. pnwmom Jul 2014 #430

The parents were carefully following the advice of top metabolic and GI specialists, pnwmom Jul 2014 #429

No, we shouldn't. We shouldn't let the Harvard name deprive us of all common sense. pnwmom Jul 2014 #433

^^^^THIS^^^^ A thousand times THIS. n/t cherokeeprogressive Jul 2014 #388

Previously, the one-sided nature of the story was problematic Orrex Jul 2014 #275

Have you read the multiple articles that have been published pnwmom Jul 2014 #281

A few questions, though I must defer to your greater familiarity: Orrex Jul 2014 #283

The Boston Globe did its own very thorough, balanced, investigation. pnwmom Jul 2014 #286

Post removed Post removed Jul 2014 #290

Welcome, FreeJustina. pnwmom Jul 2014 #291

Well done, pnwmom. K&R friendly_iconoclast Jul 2014 #294

Thanks! pnwmom Jul 2014 #295

FWIW, I'm also disgusted by some of the posts in response to the OP friendly_iconoclast Jul 2014 #296

The worst part, to me, pnwmom Jul 2014 #297

Here's a link I recently came across listing experts on the frontier of this emerging new science. proverbialwisdom Jul 2014 #298

It is a mistake that DCF made. There were two groups of physicians: pnwmom Jul 2014 #299

Harvard has people on both sides of this, as shown, so your Harvard-bashing is too indiscriminate. proverbialwisdom Jul 2014 #300

The Harvard metabolic specialists didn't speak up for 16 months. pnwmom Jul 2014 #304

Related to this post although not specifically to the thread. proverbialwisdom Jul 2014 #320

It's a hideous part of history: American kids used for government experiments. Octafish Jul 2014 #352

You're taking heat for this thread. Just want to thank you for LittleBlue Jul 2014 #391

Thanks, LittleBlue. Unfortunately, there are more Justina's out there. pnwmom Jul 2014 #397