General Discussion

Atypical Liberal

(5,412 posts)

194. OK, you keep saying this isn't about OTHER CCW permit holders, but...

Thu Apr 5, 2012, 09:32 AM

Apr 2012

OK, you keep saying this isn't a discussion about other CCW permit holders, but you then say things that imply that every CCW permit holder who finds themselves in a confrontation intended to shoot someone.

That is why this has become a discussion about concealed carry in general.

I cannot say what Zimmerman's motivation was. Maybe he was out to shoot someone. From the way the story seems to play out now, I tend to doubt that. But it is possible.

But you cannot say that every CCW permit holder who finds themselves in a confrontation was out to shoot someone. It's like saying everyone who wears a seatbelt and gets in a car crash was seeking out a car crash.

Being prepared for an event to happen is not the same thing as looking for the event to happen.

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There's a debate about whether Zimmerman should have been carrying [View all] MrScorpio Apr 2012 OP

If the charge for assaulting a police officer had not been dismissed, George might be in prison. yardwork Apr 2012 #1

Two women HockeyMom Apr 2012 #3

Thanks for that reminder. At least four assaults that we know of. Who knows how many total. yardwork Apr 2012 #4

For PICKING HER UP AND THROWING HER.... Ecumenist Apr 2012 #9

Not stable enough to carry a firearm! freshwest Apr 2012 #126

the most dangerous dog Locrian Apr 2012 #2

Powerful and well said. K&R! MarianJack Apr 2012 #5

I don't carry one, but I don't pretend to be more qualified to make that decision for another person slackmaster Apr 2012 #6

Whatever the state's requirements are, and whether or not Zimmerman met them ... markpkessinger Apr 2012 #91

As long as the requirements are purely objective and not subject to political favoritism or biases slackmaster Apr 2012 #108

I agree 100% ... markpkessinger Apr 2012 #120

You may not be qualified enough to say Zimmerman wasn't fit to carry a weapon CreekDog Apr 2012 #173

My position is a bit more nuanced than you give me credit for slackmaster Apr 2012 #182

I agree that Zimmerman was stupid Kaleva Apr 2012 #7

exactly what I've been trying to say riverwalker Apr 2012 #8

You're probably in one of the safest demographics Kaleva Apr 2012 #10

You have touched on something that supports the theory of the OP JDPriestly Apr 2012 #16

you said it pretty well yourself Riverwalker Bluerthanblue Apr 2012 #11

What do you think a police officer's motivation is for carrying a sidearm? Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #28

If they don't, they should libodem Apr 2012 #54

Police carry firearms to defend themselves in an emergency. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #98

Aren't police officers required to carry a sidearm while on duty? Mariana Apr 2012 #92

Do you think that is their primary motivation for carrying one? Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #99

You've said it brilliantly, also. Zookeeper Apr 2012 #146

Zimmerman's problem Aerows Apr 2012 #12

99% agree. But the recovering alki in me sees the addict in the Zimmster... Junkdrawer Apr 2012 #13

"NOTHING is more addictive than that which relieves fear - even temporarily. " Zookeeper Apr 2012 #147

Yes, Zimmerman is a coward, an idiot, and a bully. rrneck Apr 2012 #14

Interesting question in how do we differentiate between legitimate need and the GZs of society. bluesbassman Apr 2012 #26

If someone rrneck Apr 2012 #33

Something else just occured to me... rrneck Apr 2012 #43

Since so many apparently normal people kill others with guns, even without a past criminal record... CreekDog Apr 2012 #174

Whatever makes you feel good about rrneck Apr 2012 #176

will I feel as good about my ideas as other folks will feel safer for having guns? CreekDog Apr 2012 #177

If you had a point, maybe. rrneck Apr 2012 #178

31 people have been killed by one knife wielding man in just minutes? CreekDog Apr 2012 #179

Why does it have to be minutes? rrneck Apr 2012 #180

are you saying that the speed with which a weapon can kill is not related to it's deadliness? CreekDog Apr 2012 #181

How would you kill 31 people without a gun? rrneck Apr 2012 #184

HELL yeah! Joseph8th Apr 2012 #15

You win one internets! kurtzapril4 Apr 2012 #139

*Here's* your "well-regulated militia"- and Zimmerman is most certainly a member: friendly_iconoclast Apr 2012 #185

Packing heat is about shooting your fool mouth off, with the certainty that noone can righteously be WingDinger Apr 2012 #17

I've been carrying for 9 years. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #18

I have been carrying for longer Johnson20 Apr 2012 #22

Oooh... did that make you feel tuff? Joseph8th Apr 2012 #122

If you've "had my ass kicked", you exist only because the person who did it, didn't intend to kill y AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #134

Right... the dude-bros who kicked my ass... Joseph8th Apr 2012 #153

You couldn't be righter. A colleague of mine, COLGATE4 Apr 2012 #158

I completely agree, with one caveat... AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #161

Your caveat is certainly legitimate. But I believe that, COLGATE4 Apr 2012 #164

He chased after him texshelters Apr 2012 #19

Sir, no where in the 2nd Amendment Johnson20 Apr 2012 #20

The point, my friend, is this... MrScorpio Apr 2012 #25

And arms aren't always guns. anti-alec Apr 2012 #32

a point that goes BEYOND the gun debate DonCoquixote Apr 2012 #21

I think that is a very, very good question. Johnson20 Apr 2012 #23

He was accused of assaulting an officer, the charges were dropped, and no conviction. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #24

Yea, assuming it gets reported properly and the person doesn't just go buy a gun from a Hoyt Apr 2012 #41

Niether potential issue of which has any bearing on this issue whatsoever. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #46

Not everyone who carries concealed weapons is afraid. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #27

I've got one question for you MrScorpio Apr 2012 #30

I'm all for concealed carry, not open carry. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #34

This what I want to know... MrScorpio Apr 2012 #55

There is not enough evidence to make that case. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #101

I'm okay with open carry kurtzapril4 Apr 2012 #140

You have less to fear from a concealed carry permit holder than anyone else. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #141

No... I'm saying it's better... Joseph8th Apr 2012 #186

That is insane. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #188

When did... Joseph8th Apr 2012 #205

Here's what happens if your dream comes to fruition. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #206

There are legal reasons nadinbrzezinski Apr 2012 #29

It honestly baffles me Wumpusrat Apr 2012 #31

There's a right way to be a responsible gun owner MrScorpio Apr 2012 #35

Read the law - it does not allow that. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #36

Actually It Does, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2012 #42

That is true. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #49

As A Practical Matter, Though, Sir, That Poster Has A Point The Magistrate Apr 2012 #56

You are again right. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #64

People Who Legitimately Defend Themselves, Sir, Do Not Have Difficulties The Magistrate Apr 2012 #69

This is not true. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #77

You Will Have To Do A Lot Better Than That, Sir.... The Magistrate Apr 2012 #103

You must be joking. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #129

A Fizzing Critter Who Seriously Wants To Shoot Somebody, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2012 #149

I think you are revealing a lack of knowlege about Massad Ayoob, Sir. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #155

He Wrote What He Wrote, Sir, and That Is Window To the Soul The Magistrate Apr 2012 #159

So what did he write, Sir, that makes you think he wants to shoot someone? Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #165

The Whole Thing Is Far Too Em-Purpled, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2012 #167

I'll take this, Sir, as an indication that you didn't read it or can't support your assertion. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #172

You Can Take It As An Indication Of Anything You Like, Sir: It Will Not Bother Me The Magistrate Apr 2012 #175

It's nice to see people admit when the US Constitution and Bill of Rights is a trviality. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #187

Disproportionate result. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #168

"a highly unjust scenario." Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #189

Nationwide you say? AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #136

Most Back-Shootings Are Self-Defense, Sir: People Are Never More Menacing Than With Backs Turned The Magistrate Apr 2012 #148

One of those, the back was turned because the assailant was attacking another person AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #160

Only Two Came Through, Sir: The Drunken Brawl One Contains Insufficient Facts To Form An Opinion The Magistrate Apr 2012 #163

Now I find myself in the position of defending something I do not approve of. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #166

Then Spare Yourself the Trouble, Sir, and Refrain From Doing So The Magistrate Apr 2012 #169

I disagree. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #170

Exactly - why should both cases be able to destroy a life? Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #190

One wonders how many of the police reports now on record were done that night.... Junkdrawer Apr 2012 #53

Well... Wumpusrat Apr 2012 #44

Anyone can claim anything. This is why we rely on things like evidence. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #47

Right, however... Wumpusrat Apr 2012 #90

It's too late then. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #97

Exactly. Legally, someone could pick fight outside a bar... Zookeeper Apr 2012 #156

This article secondvariety Apr 2012 #93

This is a great article, but not the way the author intends. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #131

How about this-happened outside Tampa; secondvariety Apr 2012 #162

It is not logical, because it is not in any way an accurate reflection of the law. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #132

I think I have the right to know if the fucking idiot DevonRex Apr 2012 #37

Then ask him. rrneck Apr 2012 #38

Typical response from those who carry guns in public. Hoyt Apr 2012 #40

What are you afraid of? rrneck Apr 2012 #45

I'm not the one who has to strap a gun or two to my body before walking out the door. Hoyt Apr 2012 #61

What's your point? nt rrneck Apr 2012 #66

I think you've nailed it. But, there are lots of folks who carry for the very same reasons as Zimmy. Hoyt Apr 2012 #39

More Guns = More Fear = More Guns = More Fear = ..... Junkdrawer Apr 2012 #48

Good luck with that. The Democratic party has dropped gun control from it's platform. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #50

Just biding time while pro-gun crowd creates enough concern to bite the bullet and severely Hoyt Apr 2012 #63

Just got paid today, that's precisely what I'm going to do. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #76

Pretty easy to figure out what the pro-gun crowd is going to do. Life revolves around guns. Hoyt Apr 2012 #78

Nah, my life revolves around my kids. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #82

Spot on, Hoyt. Enough is ENOUGH of this gun fetish. Reform or repeal the 2nd amendment. nt Joseph8th Apr 2012 #123

Good luck with that. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #191

Thx, we'll need it... :) Joseph8th Apr 2012 #204

I live in a really bad area of town, violence, shootings, whole nine yards. joshcryer Apr 2012 #51

Do you really believe that? Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #52

I prefer to rely on that old Japanese adage... MrScorpio Apr 2012 #58

I prefer this one: Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #68

Let me ask you MrScorpio Apr 2012 #72

Answers. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #74

This is where we differ: MrScorpio Apr 2012 #79

No, I agree it is a choice. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #81

OK, I don't get this: MrScorpio Apr 2012 #88

Where do you see evidence that he brandished a firearm? Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #95

So you think that he didn't want his weapon to be SEEN by Trayvon? And why not? MrScorpio Apr 2012 #102

A person who legally carries a firearm in Florida does not want his weapon to be seen ... spin Apr 2012 #111

Well, something like that particular point needs to be left up to a jury MrScorpio Apr 2012 #112

I agree. (n/t) spin Apr 2012 #113

Absolutely. There should be an investigation. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #192

Even if he did... Joseph8th Apr 2012 #124

"take your beating like a man." Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #193

No... I told gun nut bullies to take their beatings... Joseph8th Apr 2012 #203

I'm assuming that means you have no citation? Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #130

Frankly, I'm disturbed at your insistence in making this debate about all CCW holders MrScorpio Apr 2012 #171

He could have been carrying 15 guns, and nothing would have gone wrong had he not AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #135

Yet, he actually used the weapon that he was carrying into a confrontation that he initiated MrScorpio Apr 2012 #137

Darn it, I guess all my guns are broken. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #138

This is not a discussion about any of the OTHER 300 million or so firearms in America MrScorpio Apr 2012 #142

I largely agree with you. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #143

Is there another intended usage for carrying a loaded handgun into a confrontation... MrScorpio Apr 2012 #145

No, I think we agree, but I may have worded it badly. AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #157

OK, you keep saying this isn't about OTHER CCW permit holders, but... Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #194

Wearing a seatbelt prepares you for the possibility of being in a crash... MrScorpio Apr 2012 #196

Of course. This doesn't mean that you are actively seeking that possibility. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #197

See. We're pretty much in agreement here MrScorpio Apr 2012 #198

If it went down the way the evidence seems to currently point, I agree. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #199

Carrying the Power Of Life And Death, Sir, Does Tend To Do That To Man The Magistrate Apr 2012 #59

So do you believe it would happen to you? Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #70

Personally, Sir, Weaponry Was Not Necessary for Me To Be Exceedingly Dangerous The Magistrate Apr 2012 #75

Again, I disagree. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #84

We Will Leave Aside, Sir, That Rates Of 'Justifiable Homicide' In Florida Have Gone Up Steeply The Magistrate Apr 2012 #106

Yup, just saw an article about it. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #133

Analyzing Cases, Sir, Does Not Seem To Be Your Strong Point The Magistrate Apr 2012 #151

I'm sure if the author could have dug up more he would have. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #152

My perception of others around me is absolutely defined by what items I have in my pocket. joshcryer Apr 2012 #60

My situational awareness is the same regardless. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #67

Not sure why. There's a different level of responsibility. joshcryer Apr 2012 #71

But rationally, surely you realize that no on knows how much money is in your pocket. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #80

I don't get it. I'm supposed to have the same level of preparedness that I would have if I had $5... joshcryer Apr 2012 #83

I probably do have better situational awareness than most. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #86

I never said that it would "influence the behavior of the people around me." joshcryer Apr 2012 #87

I know. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #94

Oh, that example was just an example. Say that I wasn't actually showing anything. joshcryer Apr 2012 #96

More power to your home shotgun... MrScorpio Apr 2012 #57

Yep, not loaded. The sound of it maybe loading I figure is enough. joshcryer Apr 2012 #62

Now you're cooking with Crisco MrScorpio Apr 2012 #65

Bad movie trope. Please don't rely on false memes for self-defense. n/t PavePusher Apr 2012 #85

Now, that's what I'm talking about. I wish all gun owners were as responsible/sensible as you. Hoyt Apr 2012 #73

Why do you feel you would walk around "being suspicious of everyone" ... spin Apr 2012 #110

This whole incident libodem Apr 2012 #89

Don't forget family connections and privilege. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #100

According to one report that I haven't seen reported here at the DU . . . Major Hogwash Apr 2012 #104

This may be true. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #195

And that means this may be true also. Major Hogwash Apr 2012 #200

Probably is true. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #201

Probably? When the probability reaches 100%, it is no longer considered a probability. Major Hogwash Apr 2012 #207

Zimmerman is a gun nut and a COWARD Skittles Apr 2012 #105

"Stand your Ground" laws are nothing more than a legal way to go human hunting LynneSin Apr 2012 #107

I agree with about half of what you said. krispos42 Apr 2012 #109

I don't think you understand the carry laws. You can't take guns to Hooter's or most commercial Honeycombe8 Apr 2012 #114

Right on! And write on! RedCloud Apr 2012 #115

Post removed Post removed Apr 2012 #116

Welcome to DU and thank you for proving MrScorpio's point. uppityperson Apr 2012 #117

Damn, I missed one MrScorpio Apr 2012 #121

Did you forget your gun? joshcryer Apr 2012 #125

Welcome to Democratic Underground. William769 Apr 2012 #118

I agree with you Generic Other Apr 2012 #119

+1. n/t Zookeeper Apr 2012 #154

Debate?????????? marshall gaines Apr 2012 #127

Don't blame the gun laws. Blame the protections that covered Zimmerman .... marble falls Apr 2012 #128

You mean to tell me when FL. EmeraldCityGrl Apr 2012 #144

There is a difference between gun laws and "stand your ground" laws .... marble falls Apr 2012 #202

+1000, Mr. Scorpio. Zookeeper Apr 2012 #150

Might consider adding realtors to that list of occupations. moriah Apr 2012 #183