General Discussion

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)

5. The NSA put out a statement that I found interesting in response.

Mon Jul 7, 2014, 12:30 PM

Jul 2014

They said something along the lines of 'the only thing you can conclude from this latest disclosure is that each person we target talks to an average of nine people.'

Let's think about that for a moment. In the past, Clapper or one of the other spokestypes for the NSA said that they needed to be able to keep '3 hops' worth of info - Not just the nine people you talk to, but the people they talk to, and the people those people talk to.

So if the NSA is now saying the reason 9/10 of the data released was not on 'targets' was that it included the 'nine people on average' that 'targets' talked to, that means they at least WANTED to keep data on the 9 first level people, the 81 second level, and the 729 third level people per 'target'. (819 people plus the target, if you assume each person, target or not, talks to an average of nine people.)

Now I don't know if they actually hit their '3 hop' desired ability, but it's certainly a lot more people getting pulled in the dragnet along with each 'target'.

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The Latest Snowden Leak Is Devastating to NSA Defenders [View all] n2doc Jul 2014 OP

They're protecting us from toddler and mothers and "traditional famly values". Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2014 #1

This is sounding more and more like the totalitarian countries during the WWII era, something RKP5637 Jul 2014 #2

"Nothing is beyond our reach." (http://www.mediashower.com/img//Video_Camera_Stop_Light.jpg) blkmusclmachine Jul 2014 #4

Yep, all over the place now, plus the interstate cameras, satellites, all of RKP5637 Jul 2014 #8

That is one of the themes of the film tblue37 Jul 2014 #109

And the fact that Catherine Austin Fitts first heard of truedelphi Jul 2014 #72

Fitts had done the kind of investigative work few journalists have.. 2banon Jul 2014 #130

I discovered this video of an interview with her - truedelphi Jul 2014 #161

Used to be a "defender" conservaphobe Jul 2014 #3

Exactly! The tools are there and future administrations good, bad, or super evil will RKP5637 Jul 2014 #6

The NSA put out a statement that I found interesting in response. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #5

Now stop thinking about what this means. You're just making it harder... Pholus Jul 2014 #9

...but it is just the meta-data,... bvar22 Jul 2014 #7

They never metadatum Jackpine Radical Jul 2014 #15

DUZY Demeter Jul 2014 #118

LOL! 2banon Jul 2014 #131

Yep. Same conceit: "We'd prefer to take it ALL;" justify it later. DirkGently Jul 2014 #10

The War on Drugs bl968 Jul 2014 #21

The bogeyman is always the excuse to overreach. DirkGently Jul 2014 #27

It's not even "Do this, or bad things will happen." Maedhros Jul 2014 #155

The TV show _The Good Wife_ dealt with this issue this season. nt tblue37 Jul 2014 #110

Its so imperative we talk about this stuff and not get derailed with "Snowden traitor!" riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #11

It's not devastating at all. Chucky-Doll Jul 2014 #12

We can work on Germany's problems after we clean up our mess here at home. Scuba Jul 2014 #14

"Edward Snowden's fan base", "conceited anti-NSA obsessive crowd" ?? SaveOurDemocracy Jul 2014 #16

Don't feed the troll n/t n2doc Jul 2014 #23

Your argument is not convincing. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #35

Your counter-argument Aerows Jul 2014 #39

Always has been from the start. LLD Jul 2014 #45

Yes, we only complain about being spied on because we're in love with Snowden whatchamacallit Jul 2014 #65

New job? Caretha Jul 2014 #91

New DU screen name, lol. morningfog Jul 2014 #103

not enough links Jeff Murdoch Jul 2014 #111

CBS News: Official: CIA recruited German intel officer to spy for U.S. Luminous Animal Jul 2014 #98

Nice explanation. Too bad rationality doesn't work.... nt Pholus Jul 2014 #162

++1000 nt kelliekat44 Jul 2014 #104

Why not post under your usual name? Marr Jul 2014 #114

Distraction fail. blackspade Jul 2014 #139

I encourage everyone to start posting random nonsense to attract NSA attention. Moostache Jul 2014 #13

The problem with this Jackpine Radical Jul 2014 #17

Congressional oversite Babel_17 Jul 2014 #18

Congress investigate their Own Failure? bvar22 Jul 2014 #19

A hoot indeed. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #33

LOL! Aerows Jul 2014 #42

Maybe we might want to think about being a little more easy on some of these folks (maybe) nolabels Jul 2014 #71

I'll excuse Congress Aerows Jul 2014 #82

I will take that back bvar22, and no maybe's either nolabels Jul 2014 #90

I can see that happening, and that would be sad, but ... Babel_17 Jul 2014 #75

They're collecting everyone's pictures for ID ...oh wait ...that's FB ...or is it Google? L0oniX Jul 2014 #20

EVERY revelation so far has methodically and shatteringly destroyed the defenders' talking points MisterP Jul 2014 #22

Upton Sinclair Aerows Jul 2014 #55

I see what you did there. HooptieWagon Jul 2014 #81

^^^This! 1000+!^^^ 2banon Jul 2014 #132

STASI reddread Jul 2014 #24

But Emmanuel Goldstein is still out there. And we must hate him! tclambert Jul 2014 #25

Around here we just call him "Manny." Jackpine Radical Jul 2014 #119

IOW, Snowden now has released personal information on 10,000 people pnwmom Jul 2014 #26

Wikileaks has nothing. If they did, they would publish. And yes, they do redact. Luminous Animal Jul 2014 #28

GEG said long ago that he and Snowden had given copies of everything pnwmom Jul 2014 #46

He has always maintained that he and Poitras are the only 2 who have access to all the docs. Luminous Animal Jul 2014 #48

because a libertarian? reddread Jul 2014 #30

He couldn't release information on innocent people Aerows Jul 2014 #34

It was wrong for the NSA to collect it pnwmom Jul 2014 #47

That's what happens Aerows Jul 2014 #52

I just want to understand! atreides1 Jul 2014 #54

Nailed it. n/t Aerows Jul 2014 #58

You deliberately twisted what I said. Why? pnwmom Jul 2014 #59

They have NEVER made the claim that they have given it to anyone. Luminous Animal Jul 2014 #60

Their "fail safe system" means that other people have access to the archives. pnwmom Jul 2014 #62

Actually it does not. I've been part of safe system and what I had was Luminous Animal Jul 2014 #64

I'm talking about computer engineers with the ability pnwmom Jul 2014 #67

Okey-doke Luminous Animal Jul 2014 #87

You crushed the foolish "objection". BillZBubb Jul 2014 #83

you persist in trying to deflect responsibility to Snowden, and away from the NSA.... mike_c Jul 2014 #78

Snowden argued that he gave it because ... Babel_17 Jul 2014 #80

So Snowdens doing wrong by people is OK because the NSA is doing it too? REALLY?! uponit7771 Jul 2014 #112

One small sentence objecting to the NSA collection. The rest is slamming Snowden riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #40

PATHETIC! BillZBubb Jul 2014 #84

Yesterday: Snowden bad because he doesn't have proof of what he claims. Hissyspit Jul 2014 #113

Exactly. It's pathetic. /nt Marr Jul 2014 #116

We have always been at war with Eastasia. n/t SwankyXomb Jul 2014 #128

Seems that way. nt MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #129

Seriously, just give it up. Trying to continue this smear job looks way too pathetic now. /nt Marr Jul 2014 #115

Well there you go. I knew somebody would come up with the spin that makes this about snowden. Warren Stupidity Jul 2014 #124

Yeah. He should have SOLD his insider knowledge like the good General. Pholus Jul 2014 #163

Any one of the subjects described in paragraph 2 could be a DU post BuelahWitch Jul 2014 #29

What does the latest release have to do with Snowden and his character? NCTraveler Jul 2014 #31

We would be fools if we did not assume the NSA would abuse their "mandate". Enthusiast Jul 2014 #32

They don't Aerows Jul 2014 #38

I'm shocked *shocked* Aerows Jul 2014 #36

I would like to personally thank each and every one of you that recommended this OP. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #37

my pleasure BelgianMadCow Jul 2014 #51

In one of the other half dozen posts about this... randome Jul 2014 #41

No dog in this show! Aerows Jul 2014 #43

As an afterthought, I almost included this: randome Jul 2014 #44

How long before you have to start repeating breeds? n/t winter is coming Jul 2014 #145

I've got a million of 'em Aerows Jul 2014 #147

Why are they saving the innocent parties responses? riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #49

I can think of two good reasons. randome Jul 2014 #50

Or because the NSA and most of it's head officials are full of plain bullshit Aerows Jul 2014 #53

Its illegal to do this to one American let alone however many more they have riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #63

It is NOT illegal. Snowden knows this. So does Greenwald. randome Jul 2014 #66

Your schtick keeps getting funnier every time you repeat it! riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #69

when did he make the jump Fred Drum Jul 2014 #73

Ha! Welcome to DU! nt riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #76

It's simple enough ConservativeDemocrat Jul 2014 #125

Oh, it's you again.... blackspade Jul 2014 #141

And it's you again! ConservativeDemocrat Jul 2014 #151

And apparently your reading comprehension hasn't improved. blackspade Jul 2014 #168

My reading comprehension is far beyond yours... ConservativeDemocrat Jul 2014 #169

You just can't stop mis-representing the facts can you? blackspade Jul 2014 #170

Ah, the old "pointing out facts you don't like" is "misrepresenting" them ConservativeDemocrat Jul 2014 #171

Screaming, huh? blackspade Jul 2014 #172

Glad to hear you are amused but I have no 'schtick'. randome Jul 2014 #74

Please proceed Governor! nt riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #77

additionally Fred Drum Jul 2014 #89

You're trying to conflate too many things. randome Jul 2014 #92

The NSA doesn't need a warrant to scoop up communicatuons of a foreign person. Vattel Jul 2014 #156

There is a potential loophole there, I agree. randome Jul 2014 #158

Exactly! And if I was in the NSA and wanted to know what someone was saying hughee99 Jul 2014 #134

Thousands of minimized communications out of several billion that circle the globe DAILY. randome Jul 2014 #136

Hold on a second. hughee99 Jul 2014 #137

Okay. I'm sure you're right. Any law enforcement officer on the planet can try to spy on someone. randome Jul 2014 #140

Not any law enforcement officer, but those at the NSA have an easy formula to hughee99 Jul 2014 #142

They are a spy agency. Of course their inner workings are kept secret from the public. randome Jul 2014 #143

I just gave you a scenario which the FISA court will do nothing about. hughee99 Jul 2014 #149

My credibility depends on where the facts lead. Nothing more. randome Jul 2014 #150

As I said, if a story comes out about people in the NSA going into the "for profit" hughee99 Jul 2014 #154

Of course I know it will happen. Of course it's human nature. randome Jul 2014 #157

They're keeping a lot of shit they no they don't need, and depending on who the target is hughee99 Jul 2014 #159

OK. ZombieHorde Jul 2014 #79

Who says anyone is watching the aunt or the son? randome Jul 2014 #93

The OP says even photos of children's baths were kept. ZombieHorde Jul 2014 #94

Yeah, are these the photos of a suspect's family? randome Jul 2014 #95

What I find most funny is the sheer ignorance of how actual law enforcement works. nt msanthrope Jul 2014 #100

I wonder how many police case files have the same type of annotations in them. randome Jul 2014 #101

Every single one. It's like no one here ever watched "The Wire." nt msanthrope Jul 2014 #102

I know! more people should be educated by a fictional tv show! neverforget Jul 2014 #107

That has to be one of the silliest argument I've ever heard Aerows Jul 2014 #146

Actually, David Simon is taught in better law schools around the country in Evidence and Crim Pro. msanthrope Jul 2014 #164

If The Wire were a documentary, you'd have an argument. neverforget Jul 2014 #167

Lester Freamon would just look at you balefully. nt msanthrope Jul 2014 #173

Well it looks like the NSA defenders are fleeing a sinking ship. Rex Jul 2014 #56

It's after five o'clock Aerows Jul 2014 #61

We could only wish...just look up a few posts above yours. BillZBubb Jul 2014 #85

Few and far between, at one time it was a rather large group that high fived each other Rex Jul 2014 #121

J. Edgar Hoover is laughing in hell right now. Teamster Jeff Jul 2014 #57

He only wishes he had the NSA's technology back in the day. BillZBubb Jul 2014 #86

That's food for thought, because Hoover was also dedicated Babel_17 Jul 2014 #88

Exactly BillZBubb Jul 2014 #97

HUGE K & R !!! WillyT Jul 2014 #68

K&R'd! snot Jul 2014 #70

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Jul 2014 #96

For the record, I'm not an "NSA defender," I'm a GREENWALD/SNOWDEN attacker. n/t UTUSN Jul 2014 #99

Right, because you'd be attacking those two even if this NSA issue didn't exist. Marr Jul 2014 #117

Oh snap! "Prosense" has disappeared! elias49 Jul 2014 #105

You're right! Where is she? nt riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #120

Snooping on the medical records of people who weren't singled out for lawful surveillance... klook Jul 2014 #106

Who says they are 'snooping'? randome Jul 2014 #122

This appears to be in absence of a warrant. klook Jul 2014 #144

This has nothing to do with metadata. randome Jul 2014 #148

"...some of that data may belong to American citizens." klook Jul 2014 #165

K&R pscot Jul 2014 #108

I don't think this is anything new. Haven't we've know since the beginning Fla Dem Jul 2014 #123

Wow, you hit the Deflection Superfecta!!! hueymahl Jul 2014 #126

Don't forget, hughee99 Jul 2014 #135

I noticed there are G_j Jul 2014 #127

Maybe everyone has them on ignore like I do 2banon Jul 2014 #133

Every now and again Aerows Jul 2014 #152

that's an intersting idea.. 2banon Jul 2014 #153

The NSA is despicable blackspade Jul 2014 #138

HRC continues to demean & ridicule Snowdon Divernan Jul 2014 #160

Yikes. Quantess Jul 2014 #166