General Discussion

ljm2002

(10,751 posts)

175. No, actually, you don't...

Mon Jul 7, 2014, 03:57 PM

Jul 2014

...and that seems to be the source of your fundamental misunderstanding here.

All of us (probably) agree that, in an ideal situation, say a married couple and the woman becomes pregnant -- in the ideal situation, they would discuss it and come to a decision that both of them agree upon and are happy with.

But we also all (probably) know that there's theory, and then there's reality. In the Real World (TM), things are not always so simple. That is one reason we need laws -- so we can be clear on where certain lines are drawn, and know when not to cross them.

In the case of pregnancy, the courts have decreed that it is between a woman and her doctor, up to about the third trimester usually. After that the state asserts more control of the situation legally.

In the Real World, where we all agree to follow the laws (modulo civil disobedience), you have this much say in whether she carries that fetus to term: ZIP, ZERO, NADA.

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Seen on Facebook; An extraordinarily well written response to an anti-choice post [View all] A HERETIC I AM Jul 2014 OP

Excellent. NV Whino Jul 2014 #1

pregnancy is not a blood transfusion or organ donation. the example is also unrealistic leftyohiolib Jul 2014 #2

Do you not agree the larger point has merit? A HERETIC I AM Jul 2014 #3

i do, when we're talking blood transfussions and organ donating but pregnancy is neither leftyohiolib Jul 2014 #6

To clarify, do you think women have bodily autonomy when it Cal Carpenter Jul 2014 #10

i think the birth decision should be upto the mother and the father of that baby leftyohiolib Jul 2014 #11

Elaborate further, please. What is the father's role in this decision? What if they disagree? LeftyMom Jul 2014 #14

if they disagree i can only speak for myself and if she wanted to abort and i didnt. i would leftyohiolib Jul 2014 #27

Fight how? Legally, physically? Social stigma? You have no legal control over that decision. LeftyMom Jul 2014 #30

omg not phyically.legally,my baby my choice.if i lose in court i lose in court leftyohiolib Jul 2014 #35

While a fetus is in a woman's body it is a collection of cells - TBF Jul 2014 #40

It's not your choice. You don't get to demand the use of somebody's body. LeftyMom Jul 2014 #41

Post removed Post removed Jul 2014 #50

No, you have no control over somebody else's body. LeftyMom Jul 2014 #53

And that post is gone. alp227 Jul 2014 #179

OMG. Juror #5. Squinch Jul 2014 #237

No, it's not gone... Callmecrazy Jul 2014 #282

So every woman who has had an abortion is a baby-killer, according to you. Starry Messenger Jul 2014 #60

You got it passiveporcupine Jul 2014 #199

The chances of dying in childbirth still very much exists rockbluff botanist Jul 2014 #65

Welcome back! Good post. AllyCat Jul 2014 #327

I am inclined to be sympathetic to your caveman-like perspective Orrex Jul 2014 #68

"what's the word for a woman who kills the baby of a man" - Are you fucking kidding me? cyberswede Jul 2014 #70

Apparently it is acceptable. This is what happens TBF Jul 2014 #78

At least it should be... Dark n Stormy Knight Jul 2014 #80

No I asked in ATA ( my only question ever) ismnotwasm Jul 2014 #153

WTF??? AngryDem001 Jul 2014 #189

Yeah. Just my personal opinion about what I'd rather not see on DU. Dark n Stormy Knight Jul 2014 #213

I would like to see that list of Dems that are anti-choice. nt DURHAM D Jul 2014 #215

Whether a baby is killed yes - TBF Jul 2014 #76

"you should change your name to hyperbole-mom" NealK Jul 2014 #84

"what's the word for a woman who kills the baby of a man." catbyte Jul 2014 #87

I think men can solve this problem by having their own babies.... abakan Jul 2014 #204

I say amen to that! catbyte Jul 2014 #218

another way for men not to be 'concerned' about abortion noiretextatique Jul 2014 #346

You do not. jmowreader Jul 2014 #90

Abortion is not 'killing a baby'. It's terminating a pregnancy. There's a difference. PeaceNikki Jul 2014 #91

it's a difference to you leftyohiolib Jul 2014 #115

And the FUCKING LAW, dude. Get a clue. PeaceNikki Jul 2014 #129

people like you are ruining my home state. nt awoke_in_2003 Jul 2014 #317

so "she" should be able to exert control over your body too Sheepshank Jul 2014 #166

Actualy, all straight men should be put in male chastity cages when they reach puberty... Scruffy Rumbler Jul 2014 #336

What's the word? Several ismnotwasm Jul 2014 #169

"what's the word for a woman who kills the baby of a man." Quantess Jul 2014 #171

+ about a million Dark n Stormy Knight Jul 2014 #55

Thank you, leftymom. SunSeeker Jul 2014 #265

Why is this simple concept so hard for people to accept? Chemisse Jul 2014 #340

But seriously - isn't it more accurate to say "my sperm, my choice"? bullwinkle428 Jul 2014 #72

When as a male you can DIE from pregnancy or childbirth, HockeyMom Jul 2014 #89

Force her to DIE? did i say that anywhere. leftyohiolib Jul 2014 #118

You don't know much about pregnancy, do you? aquart Jul 2014 #207

My husband was screaming at the Hospital Staff HockeyMom Jul 2014 #221

Are you not aware that pregnancy and childbirth are inherently risky? Chemisse Jul 2014 #341

so, you think impregnating a woman's gives you autonomy over her body? noiretextatique Jul 2014 #133

no i dont but i DO have say in what happens to our baby leftyohiolib Jul 2014 #142

that's reasonable noiretextatique Jul 2014 #161

No, actually, you don't... ljm2002 Jul 2014 #175

Really? I dispute that on ethical grounds. The Traveler Jul 2014 #176

Thank you, Traveler. Curmudgeoness Jul 2014 #266

I love you. eom littlemissmartypants Jul 2014 #311

So well written! NT Scruffy Rumbler Jul 2014 #337

You can scream about 'your say' Control-Z Jul 2014 #185

After it's a baby. Iggo Jul 2014 #223

When you get pregnant, you will have all the say you want, until then the Woman has 100% say randys1 Jul 2014 #255

Right? bravenak Jul 2014 #261

Not only would anti abortion men demand abortion clinics be more available than ATM's randys1 Jul 2014 #269

Terrorists. bravenak Jul 2014 #271

no, you fucking don't. nt awoke_in_2003 Jul 2014 #318

No actually Bartlet Jul 2014 #324

Sure. After it is born. Chemisse Jul 2014 #342

Not before the birth, you don't... cry baby Jul 2014 #350

Many people, especially men, have no idea the strain of going through with Maraya1969 Jul 2014 #281

Awesome. Schooled. eom littlemissmartypants Jul 2014 #312

if you aren't a woman awoke_in_2003 Jul 2014 #316

Even more specific in this case - if you aren't THE woman Ineeda Jul 2014 #334

Agreed. nt awoke_in_2003 Jul 2014 #349

Are you carrying it? No? Then you have no argument to make Scootaloo Jul 2014 #67

im not carrying the baby but it is my baby also and that gives me an argument to make leftyohiolib Jul 2014 #126

As I say, you have an opinion Scootaloo Jul 2014 #158

If it's not your body... abakan Jul 2014 #212

So you would put fathers who dont pay child support in jail, I hope? randys1 Jul 2014 #256

I think it is important that men be required to pay child support when they father kids. StevieM Jul 2014 #295

I'm pretty sure the law says men have equal say regarding adoption after the child is born. Chemisse Jul 2014 #343

The law says you have no say Bartlet Jul 2014 #325

It's not a baby. All you did was have a good night. AllyCat Jul 2014 #328

a fertilized egg is not a baby noiretextatique Jul 2014 #348

It isn't a baby til birth. nt cry baby Jul 2014 #351

Beautifully said. eom littlemissmartypants Jul 2014 #313

Here's a suggestion Aerows Jul 2014 #73

Good advice although it could take awhile to find one. nt TBF Jul 2014 #79

with his attitude he may never find one ... maybe over at FR Tuesday Afternoon Jul 2014 #82

No doubt with an attitude like that n/t Aerows Jul 2014 #224

he needs to stick to awoke_in_2003 Jul 2014 #319

what part of that fb post do you not understand? YOU do NOT have the right to force a woman niyad Jul 2014 #294

Fight if you want MattBaggins Jul 2014 #338

Still not clear. Do you think a woman should have legal bodily autonomy Cal Carpenter Jul 2014 #16

Post removed Post removed Jul 2014 #21

Wow. So a woman is nothing more than an incubator to you? nt TBF Jul 2014 #29

those are your words not mine - i dont see motherhood as merely an incubator but leftyohiolib Jul 2014 #128

My view is pro-choice - TBF Jul 2014 #134

You seem confused Lordquinton Jul 2014 #178

Forced birth were your words, though. Iggo Jul 2014 #226

Again - my suggestion Aerows Jul 2014 #229

saying a father should be able to force a birth awoke_in_2003 Jul 2014 #321

Wow. Forcing births is not a part of the Dem platform, btw. bettyellen Jul 2014 #34

i cant physically force her but i wouldnt want her to have an abortion leftyohiolib Jul 2014 #145

If you make the decision to have sex with a woman Aerows Jul 2014 #231

These "I am the father, hear me roar" people never get that fact. They're all about their Squinch Jul 2014 #241

You do know women die in from pregnancy related issues and during childbirth correct? riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #236

And there are no genetic defects you can't live with in that child. littlemissmartypants Jul 2014 #314

you keep going up to the line awoke_in_2003 Jul 2014 #322

Thanks for clarifying Cal Carpenter Jul 2014 #38

WELL, before you have sex with any woman you better make it clear to her KittyWampus Jul 2014 #39

She needs to get that in writing, too. That way she can warn others with proof. Dark n Stormy Knight Jul 2014 #69

Wow. What in actual fuck? Starry Messenger Jul 2014 #43

Jury almost unanimous. Warren Stupidity Jul 2014 #190

I didn't have teh stomach to alert on it. Starry Messenger Jul 2014 #191

.. littlemissmartypants Jul 2014 #315

Um. laundry_queen Jul 2014 #45

. CreekDog Jul 2014 #49

a forced birther. nt cry baby Jul 2014 #352

Fortunately we don't live "The Handmaid's Tale" yet. Gormy Cuss Jul 2014 #62

Holy Hell, we had/have a real live forced birther, sexist troll boston bean Jul 2014 #186

... cyberswede Jul 2014 #195

Really? You linked to my post, which is about 15 posts down? The_Commonist Jul 2014 #216

Note that it's the post number, not the placement on the thread that indicates the time it is read. freshwest Jul 2014 #232

I wanted to make sure boston bean read your post cyberswede Jul 2014 #245

He seems so proud of his cluelessness. It's just as bad. Squinch Jul 2014 #250

I still haven't picked my jaw up off of the floor. smirkymonkey Jul 2014 #272

Discussionist, maybe? Squinch Jul 2014 #276

no, leftieohiolib has been around for a while awoke_in_2003 Jul 2014 #323

True. Anti-choice among other things. Squinch Jul 2014 #330

how would you force a woman to give birth? CreekDog Jul 2014 #63

Stop. You'll get him all excited. Dark n Stormy Knight Jul 2014 #81

i dont know - if she really wanted an abortion i doubt there's anything that can be done leftyohiolib Jul 2014 #122

NO, I asked what you "wanted", are you getting scared to elaborate? CreekDog Jul 2014 #123

Burn. Iggo Jul 2014 #228

And there is no possible scenario Aerows Jul 2014 #233

So you think that a rapist should have the right avebury Jul 2014 #88

no, i dont think rapists should have any rights to the child - leftyohiolib Jul 2014 #113

What you consider "understandable" is irrelevant. mountain grammy Jul 2014 #147

if you impregnate a woman or girl who didn't want SleeplessinSoCal Jul 2014 #94

No one has the right to force a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term. CrispyQ Jul 2014 #101

So when a women is pregnant the father of the fetus can assume control over her body? A Simple Game Jul 2014 #105

I think you took a wrong turn at Albuquerque. historylovr Jul 2014 #125

why b/c no man wants to see his child born? leftyohiolib Jul 2014 #140

No, because from what you've said in this thread TBF Jul 2014 #156

No, because you insist a woman should be forced to carry a fetus to term. historylovr Jul 2014 #181

OMG. myrna minx Jul 2014 #136

Let's carry this to its conclusion: christx30 Jul 2014 #177

well then mercuryblues Jul 2014 #180

So, by following your logic Bettie Jul 2014 #217

One thing I find about guys like this laundry_queen Jul 2014 #268

Yep. I know what you mean Bettie Jul 2014 #277

Exactly. laundry_queen Jul 2014 #280

They didn't catch the eclampsia Bettie Jul 2014 #292

Yeah, all girls laundry_queen Jul 2014 #303

A lot of them do know. Mariana Jul 2014 #339

It is not for you to think malaise Jul 2014 #97

So you would consider that a woman who is raped and find avebury Jul 2014 #86

Yes, pregnancy is far far more invasive and risky gcomeau Jul 2014 #93

It establishes the concept of 'Body Autonomy' Trajan Jul 2014 #7

why because dems cant be against abortion? leftyohiolib Jul 2014 #13

Yes, that's exactly why. Respect women or GTFO. LeftyMom Jul 2014 #15

i do respect women, leftyohiolib Jul 2014 #17

Nice edit. Your post was " i do respect women, why cant women respect the life inside them" LeftyMom Jul 2014 #18

there was a reason i took that out - it was judgemental so i removed it leftyohiolib Jul 2014 #22

You mean you were a bit too honest. LeftyMom Jul 2014 #32

such an honest DUer, took you 5000+ posts to post that CreekDog Jul 2014 #36

Once we begin to advertise ourselves, it's often difficult to stop... LanternWaste Jul 2014 #74

ROTFLMFAO! You'd FORCE a woman to give birth at your whim, but you wouldn't want to be Dark n Stormy Knight Jul 2014 #83

Forcing the mother to carry the child for nine months and then have the child. Not a Fan Jul 2014 #206

"Life inside them" huh? TBF Jul 2014 #20

i took that out for a reason leftyohiolib Jul 2014 #24

No kidding. TBF Jul 2014 #26

it was too judgemental leftyohiolib Jul 2014 #28

The word is "judgmental" and you are correct TBF Jul 2014 #33

her body is her own but the baby belongs to us both leftyohiolib Jul 2014 #37

Wrong - a fetus inside a body is a collection of cells. TBF Jul 2014 #44

collection of cells is your term for it. not mine,but that collection of cell that will be leftyohiolib Jul 2014 #168

Yes - as long as Roe stands TBF Jul 2014 #184

this enrages me so much I'm going to say something awful... Ineeda Jul 2014 #235

If you feel that strongly about it, then you should always make sure that any smirkymonkey Jul 2014 #278

You're angry at a particular woman, aren't you? Somebody who didn't want to be your brood mare? LeftyMom Jul 2014 #48

no im not mad at anyone. leftyohiolib Jul 2014 #154

you're not mad at her anymore, you're mad at all women now CreekDog Jul 2014 #208

I have 5 children...I own ZERO. Moostache Jul 2014 #66

Thank you for saying that laundry_queen Jul 2014 #124

Thank you. I was going to post something similar, but you covered what I wanted to say and did so smokey nj Jul 2014 #165

Actually...no it wasn't. Women in Saudi Arabia are little more than property. StevieM Jul 2014 #299

when is it a baby? CreekDog Jul 2014 #75

according to the google dictionary, and Webster passiveporcupine Jul 2014 #210

Again, a fetus is a PARASITE, unable to live outside my uterus. Until it can survive on its own, catbyte Jul 2014 #98

Question- have you told every woman you've ever had sex with that you would try to force her KittyWampus Jul 2014 #47

when i was younger i dont recall having convo's like this but then i probably didnt care leftyohiolib Jul 2014 #61

it was too semi-literate. CreekDog Jul 2014 #52

So was your question about what to call a woman who has an abortion. Jamastiene Jul 2014 #356

. CreekDog Jul 2014 #54

Original version with no edits CreekDog Jul 2014 #135

You appear to be unaware of the neon sign over your head that says that you don't respect women. Squinch Jul 2014 #258

welcome to "flagged for review". nt. Warren Stupidity Jul 2014 #192

Took friggin' long enough. This wasn't the first time he spewed this women-hating nonsense. Squinch Jul 2014 #259

Democratic party platform @2012 - TBF Jul 2014 #332

So you think a dead body has more rights than a woman? TBF Jul 2014 #19

your words not mine - i dont think those two things are relatable leftyohiolib Jul 2014 #23

Oh I think I understand exactly TBF Jul 2014 #25

good, then we are done with this? leftyohiolib Jul 2014 #31

No one is holding a gun to your head and TBF Jul 2014 #46

... Cal Carpenter Jul 2014 #56

! cyberswede Jul 2014 #77

No, it really isn't twisted at all. It doesn't claim that pregnancy IS a blood transfusion or Dark n Stormy Knight Jul 2014 #64

Speaking of pretzel: NealK Jul 2014 #95

... Bryce Butler Jul 2014 #137

Hehehehehe -- NO!!! DeSwiss Jul 2014 #252

You did know what a can of worms you would open up with this, right? The_Commonist Jul 2014 #172

"I do think there's an unfortunate strain of "feminism" or something that is prevalent here on DU" cyberswede Jul 2014 #183

OK, you've come right out and said it. The_Commonist Jul 2014 #187

And so have you - TBF Jul 2014 #188

Ah yes, there's the broad brush. Right on time! The_Commonist Jul 2014 #193

Sadly I've had this disagreement with other men TBF Jul 2014 #196

I was a young boy in the 70's. The_Commonist Jul 2014 #201

what part of "her body, her choice" is too complicated for you? geek tragedy Jul 2014 #220

You're right, it's not a complicated concept! The_Commonist Jul 2014 #243

Autonomy does not mean geek tragedy Jul 2014 #253

Got it - I understand your question and TBF Jul 2014 #242

He has the right to an opinion, and it's her right to disagree with that opinion. catbyte Jul 2014 #244

How is a man relevant to the topic of a woman's autonomy over her own body? cyberswede Jul 2014 #194

I can't be specific. The_Commonist Jul 2014 #197

Seriously. If the woman doesn't want to be pregnant and give birth, there is no other way. The end. cyberswede Jul 2014 #200

your anti-choice buddy is a literal forced birther geek tragedy Jul 2014 #225

In a perfect world, hopefully a couple would discuss the possibility of an unplanned pregnancy smirkymonkey Jul 2014 #279

Obviously, men are irrelevant when a woman is deciding what to do with her body. Squinch Jul 2014 #262

I think the man in a relationship has a right to voice his opinion passiveporcupine Jul 2014 #214

And that's probably the most rational, reasonable thing said here so far. The_Commonist Jul 2014 #227

Are you fucking kidding me? Do you REALLY think that forced birth, abortion= catbyte Jul 2014 #257

hey now, we must be profoundly respectful to forced-birther misoynist trolls geek tragedy Jul 2014 #289

It's also interesting that these so-called male feminists call our opinions "hyperbole" catbyte Jul 2014 #297

keeo sweet, lol! catbyte Jul 2014 #298

This statement indicates a profound failure to understand pro-choice vs anti-choice geek tragedy Jul 2014 #288

To say to a man that they have NO right in the decision making process, just stfu,is perfectly fine. bravenak Jul 2014 #230

Took the words right out of my mouth in your header. Who the everloving fuck are these people? Squinch Jul 2014 #248

I shouldn't say cult members. I would never even think it's a cultish thing. Nope. bravenak Jul 2014 #249

What should we call such a thing? The religion of men who can't tell a woman from a breadbox, maybe? Squinch Jul 2014 #254

The Night's Watch? bravenak Jul 2014 #260

The man has no right to say whether or not the woman carries the pregnancy to term. StevieM Jul 2014 #300

I was talking about the right to force her to HAVE the child. bravenak Jul 2014 #301

Ok...point taken. (eom) StevieM Jul 2014 #302

Although i agree with you about the fathers having the right to co parent. bravenak Jul 2014 #304

I am glad that you and your husband are on solid ground. My brother and SIL's marriage StevieM Jul 2014 #308

I feel for you. bravenak Jul 2014 #309

Yeah, Commonist, We uppity "liberal feminists." How DARE we make our own decisions! catbyte Jul 2014 #251

This level of negativity and hyperbole... The_Commonist Jul 2014 #267

This was an eye opening post. bravenak Jul 2014 #270

My wife and I are about to sit down to dinner. The_Commonist Jul 2014 #274

Thank you. bravenak Jul 2014 #275

OK, so we had a nice dinner, a nice conversation... The_Commonist Jul 2014 #345

Your answer makes lots of sense. bravenak Jul 2014 #347

there is no honest discussion to be had as to whether a man can control a woman's body geek tragedy Jul 2014 #283

Seriously, there is nothing to discuss here. Sheldon Cooper Jul 2014 #285

I used the term parasite because biologically that is what a fetus is. And I am not catbyte Jul 2014 #293

This was decided back in 1976 Bartlet Jul 2014 #326

I hope you fail your review tenderfoot Jul 2014 #211

well there's something being transferred in pregnancy. mwooldri Jul 2014 #284

Foolish response Bartlet Jul 2014 #320

I am not a fan of abortion. Who really is? LuckyTheDog Jul 2014 #335

pregnancy is not a blood transfusion or organ donation. AlbertCat Jul 2014 #354

That was worded perfectly RockaFowler Jul 2014 #4

Awesome response kwolf68 Jul 2014 #5

The pro-lifers will not be moved by this argument, so I think so much satisfaction over this Jenoch Jul 2014 #8

Who cares what they think? They are wrong. nt TBF Jul 2014 #51

Of course they are wrong. Jenoch Jul 2014 #102

I didn't post this thinking it would sway anyones opinion A HERETIC I AM Jul 2014 #107

You sort of missed, and then made my point. Jenoch Jul 2014 #109

Then "argument" was a poor choice of words. A HERETIC I AM Jul 2014 #114

The stupidity in your post is believing there is an argument that would move pro-lifers. jeff47 Jul 2014 #131

Thank you for making my point for me. Jenoch Jul 2014 #344

That is really well thought out and well written Marrah_G Jul 2014 #9

K&R !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SamKnause Jul 2014 #12

+1. This notion of bodily autonomy has a lot of possibilities. nt bemildred Jul 2014 #42

Thank you LittleGirl Jul 2014 #57

You're welcome! n/t A HERETIC I AM Jul 2014 #108

Wow. That is an excellent point, and well illustrated! Dark n Stormy Knight Jul 2014 #58

Very good. nt ZombieHorde Jul 2014 #59

It is well written, but Sweet Freedom Jul 2014 #71

+1 BrotherIvan Jul 2014 #121

You're assuming the argument is intended to sway anti-choicers. jeff47 Jul 2014 #138

I have always attempted to sway the vote of anti choicers Sweet Freedom Jul 2014 #155

The "first breath" argument IS persuasive to fundies capable of thought. annabanana Jul 2014 #174

True Sweet Freedom Jul 2014 #182

Post removed Post removed Jul 2014 #85

"I personally do believe that life begins at conception." Starry Messenger Jul 2014 #92

Legally speaking no justanaverageguy Jul 2014 #110

I already answered this. Viability and/or birth. Starry Messenger Jul 2014 #117

I rely on no such thing. justanaverageguy Jul 2014 #127

Why bring up 20 weeks if you're not talking about aborting after that date? Starry Messenger Jul 2014 #157

Where did I bring up 20 weeks????? justanaverageguy Jul 2014 #170

You: Starry Messenger Jul 2014 #173

Oh really??? gcomeau Jul 2014 #100

welcome back to DU, you haven't posted in over two months CreekDog Jul 2014 #106

Thank you.... justanaverageguy Jul 2014 #116

so you just happened to go on DU and deep within this thread decided to respond? CreekDog Jul 2014 #119

Typing as I chuckle a bit.... justanaverageguy Jul 2014 #148

yes, go on, you're too busy to know what goes on at DU CreekDog Jul 2014 #202

Amazing timing. nt TBF Jul 2014 #149

not amazing...simply coincidental nt justanaverageguy Jul 2014 #164

and the sun rises in the north niyad Jul 2014 #296

These 2 aren't fooling anyone - TBF Jul 2014 #331

you are so correct about them. and thank you for including that plank of the dem platform. niyad Jul 2014 #353

Life begins when the foetus can live outside the womb. PDJane Jul 2014 #120

I have no idea what Rabbinical law is....but I will Google it later LOL!! justanaverageguy Jul 2014 #130

Modern medicine can do nothing about some things. PDJane Jul 2014 #146

I agree with your last statement. justanaverageguy Jul 2014 #167

You too. Just as lost as your friend up thread. historylovr Jul 2014 #132

Maybe but you've picked the wrong question - TBF Jul 2014 #143

I think people are purposefully being too literal justanaverageguy Jul 2014 #160

I answered your question - TBF Jul 2014 #163

My feeling on that case, as a woman passiveporcupine Jul 2014 #222

She had been without oxygen for some time and there was reason to believe the fetus was damaged. LeftyMom Jul 2014 #234

I should have read up on the case before replying passiveporcupine Jul 2014 #240

You'd have to put that in writing before it happens - TBF Jul 2014 #238

Life began about 3.6 billion years ago. It hasn't stopped. jeff47 Jul 2014 #150

If you can work out one detail TNNurse Jul 2014 #96

Not really a difficult detail. Age of majority. Currently 18. (nt) jeff47 Jul 2014 #152

Is it acceptable to be anti-choice on this forum? LexVegas Jul 2014 #99

Well, this is DEMOCRATIC Underground.... A HERETIC I AM Jul 2014 #103

It shouldn't be. nt cyberswede Jul 2014 #104

If a man is advocating forcing a woman to carry a fetus to term, I think it shouldn't be acceptable. catbyte Jul 2014 #112

You're asking the wrong folks - TBF Jul 2014 #144

+1000 Starry Messenger Jul 2014 #159

Amen. nt DURHAM D Jul 2014 #219

I don't think so, the 2012 party platform is explicitly pro-choice steve2470 Jul 2014 #205

Yes, anti choicers are acceptable to a few here CreekDog Jul 2014 #263

Nope. Iggo Jul 2014 #310

Yes, but what does Hobby Lobby have to say about it? tclambert Jul 2014 #111

K & R doxydad Jul 2014 #139

The abortion issue is about a double standard felix_numinous Jul 2014 #141

And the poor women can just bleed out felix_numinous Jul 2014 #151

Ummmmm ...did you mean to respond to someone else? A HERETIC I AM Jul 2014 #333

This was meant as a general response felix_numinous Jul 2014 #355

Fabulous response! redstatebluegirl Jul 2014 #162

This message was self-deleted by its author Adam051188 Jul 2014 #198

2012 Democratic Party Platform on choice steve2470 Jul 2014 #203

You should send this post straight to the admins - TBF Jul 2014 #239

ok good idea, I'll do that nt steve2470 Jul 2014 #247

Thanks for all the responses locks Jul 2014 #209

Thanks for thanking everybody for responding to my thread! A HERETIC I AM Jul 2014 #329

K&R DeSwiss Jul 2014 #246

K & R SunSeeker Jul 2014 #264

That is a serious and usually neglected argument, Vattel Jul 2014 #273

"Is it really just your body?" Ummmm... calimary Jul 2014 #286

K&R! smirkymonkey Jul 2014 #287

I tell pro-lifers that govt forcing women to give birth is communism ErikJ Jul 2014 #290

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Jul 2014 #291

Beautiful darling. I love you. Arrive alive. littlemissmartypants Jul 2014 #305

Awwwwww! A HERETIC I AM Jul 2014 #306

IKR!! littlemissmartypants Jul 2014 #307