Gangs and swarms

[bettyellen]

91. and another one, wherein a host judges a "group" or swarm of DUers at about post 44 or so:

this was some meta thread, but started by someone who is popular with them- so you know, no can lock. It is notable that not one GD Host calls them on this abuse of the system- only other hosts do. It's becoming the norm in GD. As is angrily refusing to discuss your vote.




Agschmid (8,333 posts)

1. GDH - I posted in that thread so no vote from me.









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Response to Agschmid (Original post)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 10:48 PM

Agschmid (8,333 posts)

2. Kicking... open to NAGDH input since it seems to be a light GDH night.









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Response to Agschmid (Reply #2)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 10:55 PM

greatauntoftriplets (139,682 posts)

4. Frankly, it's a question he should ask Skinner.







And that's all I'm going to say, just wanted to help out even a little bit. Good luck with this.


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Response to greatauntoftriplets (Reply #4)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 10:57 PM

Agschmid (8,333 posts)

5. Thanks!










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Response to Agschmid (Reply #5)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 10:58 PM

greatauntoftriplets (139,682 posts)

6. You're welcome!







Bedtime for me.


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Response to Agschmid (Original post)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 10:52 PM

Agschmid (8,333 posts)

3. Got a pass from a jury, just FYI not related to our decision.








AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

Mail Message
On Sun Jun 1, 2014, 10:45 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Let's Keep Score Here... Grasswire Just Got A Second Strike...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025035784

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This is ridiculous. Meta is dead and GD is not this person's individual forum to endlessly complain about any perceived "slights" he feels have been bestowed. Completely inappropriate for this forum

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Jun 1, 2014, 10:48 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I should hide because, META. but 50% of GD is META now it seems. I am not willing to hide this META unless all META gets hidden.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Baaaaaaaah!
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: alerter can go suck eggs. turning alertds into meta is better.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.


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Response to Agschmid (Reply #3)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:41 PM

ucrdem (3,825 posts)

18. Whining about DU is an SOP violation and that is a host decision.







Juries are not responsible for hiding SOP violations. But we are responsible for locking them.


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Response to Agschmid (Original post)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 10:59 PM

Warren Stupidity (37,298 posts)

7. gdh leave wsc









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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #7)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:00 PM

Agschmid (8,333 posts)

8. Thanks.









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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #7)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:58 PM

ucrdem (3,825 posts)

34. Can can you provide a strong rationale for ignoring the GD SOP?









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Response to ucrdem (Reply #34)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 07:49 AM

Warren Stupidity (37,298 posts)

121. Well I replied before I saw the nonsense that happened here.







Don't lock threads with no consensus. Doing so causes hosting to be painful. Please stop.


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Response to Agschmid (Original post)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:05 PM

X_Digger (15,433 posts)

9. GDH- leaning lock, but WSC.







It is meta bullshit, but meta has been getting a pass recently.


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Response to X_Digger (Reply #9)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:09 PM

Agschmid (8,333 posts)

11. Thanks.









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Response to Agschmid (Original post)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:05 PM

rhett o rick (36,391 posts)

10. GDH - Leave.









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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #10)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:09 PM

Agschmid (8,333 posts)

12. Thanks.









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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #10)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:58 PM

ucrdem (3,825 posts)

33. Can can you provide a strong rationale for ignoring the GD SOP?









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Response to Agschmid (Original post)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:10 PM

Autumn (16,209 posts)

13. Leave. n/t









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Response to Autumn (Reply #13)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:58 PM

ucrdem (3,825 posts)

32. Can can you provide a strong rationale for ignoring the GD SOP?









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Response to ucrdem (Reply #32)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 07:46 AM

Autumn (16,209 posts)

119. Is that required? A new rule perhaps?Can you provide a strong rationale







for locking posts you don't like and ignoring the votes of GD hosts to side with non GD hosts who just so happen to be the alerters?
Many hosts have put leave only in the subject line. And can you be anymore fucking rude? Since when do you get to put up new rules?


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Response to Agschmid (Original post)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:31 PM

ucrdem (3,825 posts)

14. Whining about jury decisions is not a jury issue, it's SOP and this should be locked.







GD hosts have a very narrowly defined jurisdiction and this is one of the few things is in it. There's no excuse for not locking. But considering the players I'm not going to waste the effort of going rogue and then dealing with the stupid shite that would inevitably follow. If GD hosts want to screw around instead of doing their rather elementary and easy job, fine, screw around.


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Response to ucrdem (Reply #14)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:40 PM

Rhiannon12866 (61,576 posts)

17. Not currently a GD host, but I agree with you







"Whining about DU" is clearly prohibited in the GD SoP.

Discuss politics, issues, and current events. No posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports unless there is really big news. No conspiracy theories. No whining about DU.


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Response to Agschmid (Original post)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:37 PM

Rhiannon12866 (61,576 posts)

15. Another alert:







Author: WillyT
Let's Keep Score Here... Grasswire Just Got A Second Strike...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025035784
Alerted by berni_mccoy: Whining about DU


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Response to Rhiannon12866 (Reply #15)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:39 PM

ucrdem (3,825 posts)

16. Hoo boy. This one needed to be locked up an hour ago.







Thanks for bringing this alert in Rhiannon as I know you're not a GD host.


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Response to ucrdem (Reply #16)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:42 PM

Rhiannon12866 (61,576 posts)

19. No, I'm not at the moment, but GD alerts are the only ones on the list right now...







And most of them are about this particular thread.


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Response to Rhiannon12866 (Reply #19)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:45 PM

ucrdem (3,825 posts)

20. 5 in just over an hour.







I think we're creating a problem, not solving a problem.




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Response to ucrdem (Reply #20)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:47 PM

Rhiannon12866 (61,576 posts)

21. The way I look at this, DUers have spoken







Just my two-cents...


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Response to Rhiannon12866 (Reply #21)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:42 AM

rhett o rick (36,391 posts)

44. The DU'ers have spoken? Those DU'ers are not hosts. The hosts voted to leave.







All of the alerters are in the same Group. They can get 10 more alerts if they want. It isnt about how many alerts there are it's up to the hosts.


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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #44)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:45 AM

Agschmid (8,333 posts)

47. Yup.







Last edited Mon Jun 2, 2014, 07:45 AM - Edit history (1)

ETA: So I feel like I have to qualify my statement before I get called out on something I didn't mean. I just meant that regardless of the fact that there are "x" alerts it doesn't indicate whether the DU "community" feels a certain way about a thread, IMO. That is all.


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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #44)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:51 AM

Rhiannon12866 (61,576 posts)

50. My point is that if there are more than one or two alerts







The hosts should take that into consideration and reevaluate. But it's up to you...


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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #44)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:21 AM

Number23 (16,246 posts)

83. "All of the alerters are in the same Group."







And this, better than ANYTHING anyone else could have typed, is the crux of the host problem right here.


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Response to Number23 (Reply #83)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:46 AM

bettyellen (24,490 posts)

88. you said it right there.







my jar dropped when I saw that. five alerts is nothing if you don't like the DUers, I guess. that would be the group right there.


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Response to bettyellen (Reply #88)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 03:01 AM

Number23 (16,246 posts)

94. "five alerts is nothing if you don't like the DUers" You nailed it







As many times as you and I have bumped heads over the years, I guess we're in the "same group" because rhett o rick doesn't like us. Which is perfectly fine with me, in all honesty, but that certainly does make one question his "fitness for duty".

That person is far too preoccupied with keeping up with what "group" is doing what instead of enforcing the SOP of the forum. We all know he's by no means alone in that regard, but it's still pretty amazing to see out in the open.

Edit: And actually it was SIX alerts by long time DUers that all need to be ignored, apparently.


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Response to Number23 (Reply #94)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 03:09 AM

bettyellen (24,490 posts)

97. I know, I just looked at the group and said WHUT?







I can't remember any agreeable conversations with any of them except for Nikki, actually. Wow. I feel like I've really neglected Zappaman now, ha ha.


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Response to bettyellen (Reply #97)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 06:48 AM

PeaceNikki (21,150 posts)

116. What should we call our "Group"? Pussy is already taken.







BTW, I'll play the triangle. I hope you can sing.


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Response to bettyellen (Reply #88)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 07:49 AM

Whisp (23,770 posts)

120. Looks like List Making to me.










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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #44)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:50 AM

zappaman (11,770 posts)

90. What group is that Rick?







What group am I in?
Is there a "let's ignore their alerts" group as well as whatever group you are blathering about?


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Response to zappaman (Reply #90)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:58 AM

bettyellen (24,490 posts)

93. Have we ever spoken before?









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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #44)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 07:15 AM

PeaceNikki (21,150 posts)

117. Are you suggesting that there was a coordinated effort to alert on this one stupid, meta OP?







Or any? That's both wrong and fucking ridiculous. It was a disruptive meta post. I stand by that. Alone or with a fucking "group".


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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #117)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:08 AM

bettyellen (24,490 posts)

142. Apparently we have hosts who believe alerting is so beyond the pale that







The imagine it must be personal? A bit if projecting there!


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Response to bettyellen (Reply #142)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:10 AM

PeaceNikki (21,150 posts)

143. This place is a fucking joke. A few hosts are FREAKING THE FUCK OUT that they are being asked to







justify their decision, but completely ok with the fact that another LITERALLY said they should disregard the alerters.

I am really getting sick of one or two hosts treating non-(current GD)hosts like we're pieces of shit who should be ignored. Hey, newsflash, we're members of this community, too.




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Response to bettyellen (Reply #142)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:12 AM

Violet_Crumble (32,238 posts)

144. I'm really not comfortable with GD hosts being attacked like this....







I don't think it's helpful at all...


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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #144)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:13 AM

PeaceNikki (21,150 posts)

145. How about alerters being 'attacked', is that cool?









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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #145)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:15 AM

Violet_Crumble (32,238 posts)

147. Even if they had been, that doesn't justify attacking GD hosts n/t









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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #147)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:18 AM

PeaceNikki (21,150 posts)

148. She's not 'attacking', she's voicing anger about being "grouped" and dismissed.







Follow the subthread you're in.


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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #148)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:19 AM

Violet_Crumble (32,238 posts)

149. Both of you are attacking the hosts and making things much harder in here than they need to be n/t









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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #147)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:19 AM

bettyellen (24,490 posts)

150. The alerters were attacked and accused of nefarious BS...







And if discussing it reads as an attack on any one- maybe it's because that was an incredibly shitty and biased thing to say.

No reflection on anyone acting in good faith here.


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Response to Rhiannon12866 (Reply #15)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:52 PM

Agschmid (8,333 posts)

23. Added it to the OP, thanks!









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Response to Agschmid (Reply #23)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:53 PM

Rhiannon12866 (61,576 posts)

25. No worries!







Slow evening... *fingers crossed*


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Response to Agschmid (Original post)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:50 PM

ucrdem (3,825 posts)

22. Does anyone object to a lock, and if so, can you give a strong rationale why we should ignore SOP







not to mention Skinner's clear instructions and leave this thread open?


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Response to ucrdem (Reply #22)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:52 PM

Agschmid (8,333 posts)

24. You have two GDH that voted leave so you'd need to TB with them.









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Response to Agschmid (Reply #24)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:54 PM

ucrdem (3,825 posts)

27. I don't see any rationale for leaving this open.







Do you?


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Response to ucrdem (Reply #27)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:55 PM

Agschmid (8,333 posts)

28. As I said upthread I'm not going to vote on this one.









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Response to Agschmid (Reply #28)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:57 PM

ucrdem (3,825 posts)

30. I will politely ask all three leavers for their reasons.









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Response to Agschmid (Reply #28)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:59 PM

ucrdem (3,825 posts)

35. I have politely asked all three leavers for their reasons. nt









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Response to ucrdem (Reply #35)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:05 AM

Agschmid (8,333 posts)

38. Wonderful.









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Response to ucrdem (Reply #22)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:57 AM

rhett o rick (36,391 posts)

52. We dont have to get you to approve our reasons to leave. We are supposed to leave threads open







unless there is a CLEAR CONSENSUS TO LOCK. There is no such consensus. And dont let non-hosts "strongly encourage" you do lock something when there is not a consensus. You should not be locking threads unilaterally.


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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #52)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:02 AM

greyl (16,995 posts)

56. Baloney. You should SHARE your reasons, but you all haven't.







You shouldn't be surprised that a Host's vote with no reasoning behind it has no sway. If you care so much about a particular vote, take the time and effort to share your reasoning. That's how the community of Hosts builds consensus, not by "phoned in", effortless votes.


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Response to greyl (Reply #56)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:11 AM

Aerows (24,499 posts)

81. It isn't baloney by a long shot.







Group consensus is group consensus and when it is close, Skinner himself said to leave it.


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Response to greyl (Reply #56)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 08:38 AM

Autumn (16,209 posts)

127. New rule? Made by who? Since when is that an issue?









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Response to ucrdem (Reply #22)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 05:23 AM

pacalo (23,252 posts)

112. NaGDH, but I saw a good point made in the OP.







I lurk more than post these days, but I felt strongly enough about the discussion to participate in it. So did many others. I can understand why some hosts would vote to leave it.


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Response to Agschmid (Original post)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:53 PM

greyl (16,995 posts)

26. Am I wrong, or







did the 3 Leave voters not include an ounce of reasoning behind their vote?


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Response to greyl (Reply #26)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:57 PM

bettyellen (24,490 posts)

31. Nope, "the 3 Leave voters not include an ounce of reasoning behind their vote", again.









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Response to bettyellen (Reply #31)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:00 AM

greyl (16,995 posts)

36. If it were up to me, I'd ignore their votes







and let them work on gathering the required reasoning needed for their complaint to Admin to be sympathized with.

(Not a GD Host)


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Response to greyl (Reply #36)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:04 AM

bettyellen (24,490 posts)

37. yeah, I know they think racism and sexist crap is not in their purview, but this is clearly a







violation. I guess Willie is special. This is just making GD worse, Grassswire posted some real RW crap and we have a thread of people treating her like Joan of Arc or a little lost lamb. Can't wait to see what they'll be emboldened to post next.


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Response to bettyellen (Reply #37)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 05:45 AM

pacalo (23,252 posts)

114. Whoa, whoa, whoa. What does the OP have to do with "racism & sexist crap"?







Or to the post to which you were responding? That's coming from left-field, as though some prior hurts of yours are coming into play where they shouldn't be.

That's some commentary about grasswire where it doesn't belong, too. Your commitment to "no Meta threads" isn't looking very strong.

It's sad to see the hosts forum becoming an offshoot of the Meta forum.


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Response to pacalo (Reply #114)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 09:51 AM

bettyellen (24,490 posts)

137. It's about inconsistency.







What did I say about Grasswire other than she posted RW crap? She/ he did that.
No speculation why on my part.

I commented on those around her/ him acting as if getting a thread locked made them a martyr for getting a locked post- w/ RW crap. No one is a martyr here for having a locked post, it happens. And it should happen if it's dodgy RW bullshit. That is why you all got so many alerts. I'm sure the RW crap got juried for the same reason, because of where we are.



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Response to bettyellen (Reply #37)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 08:05 AM

Autumn (16,209 posts)

125. What disgusting smears against Willy and Grasswire.







Grasswire apologized, had no idea it was a RW site, you should be ashamed of yourself.

"yeah, I know they think racism and sexist crap is not in their purview, but this is clearly a violation. I guess Willie is special. This is just making GD worse, Grassswire posted some real RW crap and we have a thread of people treating her like Joan of Arc or a little lost lamb. Can't wait to see what they'll be emboldened to post next".

That is a personal attack against two DUers by a so called host in a forum where neither of them have the opportunity to defend themselves against your vile bullshit.





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Response to Autumn (Reply #125)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 09:38 AM

bettyellen (24,490 posts)

135. She did post RW crap, it's not a smear- it's reality.







Accidental or not- I didn't speculate. No insult there. It happened, was corrected and not the end of the world. I said the same thing to Grasswire's face. Know a bit about your sources. It's not hard.

Hosts speculating WHY many different DUers alerted are some kind of a group? That was a smear, unfounded, and shows bias against six good DUers. Do they not matter?

It is now clear that some hosts are looking at the people, and not the posts when deciding how to vote. They explain this here while avoiding discussion of the OP.
That explains a lot if the inconsistency here.

Poor Achshmid asking for other hosts to weigh in. They didn't realize that's only welcome theoretically.

I never did try and "vote", but said many times I thought it was a bad lock as handled. But it should have been a clear easy lock. It's pretty cut and dry.



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Response to bettyellen (Reply #135)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 09:41 AM

Autumn (16,209 posts)

136. She didn't know, I wouldn't have known that was a RW site.







Talking trash about DUers in the host form is not cool. Look in a mirror lady you have been looking at the people for quite a while now when you want a post locked.


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Response to Autumn (Reply #136)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 09:55 AM

bettyellen (24,490 posts)

138. Untrue. I am completely unfamiliar with Grass and never speculated- but clearly their post was a







Problem. That's not talking trash- it's exactly what hosts are supposed to be discussing- instead of talking trash about the alerters. Group my ass.


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Response to bettyellen (Reply #138)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 09:56 AM

Autumn (16,209 posts)

139. She apologized but that's not good enough for you. We discuss alerted posts, not the posters.









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Response to Autumn (Reply #139)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:02 AM

bettyellen (24,490 posts)

140. A lock is good enough for RW crap, and I hold no animus toward them.







But you seem okay with trashing the alerters as was done here. No comment on that bit of bias?


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Response to bettyellen (Reply #140)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:07 AM

Autumn (16,209 posts)

141. Then there should be a list of acceptable sites. Y'all ought to get right on that.









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Response to Autumn (Reply #141)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:14 AM

bettyellen (24,490 posts)

146. News busters has an anti- liberal subheading under the name...







You can look at the "editors picks" to get a feel for it where a place is at, editorially.
It's a good lesson for Grasswire, anyway.

Are you really thinking any old RW crap should stay if it's an accident or was posted by someone the hosts like and want to protect? That seems to be the message I'm getting. After all this, I have no idea why anyone would leave that crap in GD. None.


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Response to greyl (Reply #36)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:37 AM

rhett o rick (36,391 posts)

42. GDH - So you are not a GD Host and you are pushing a host to ignore other host's votes.









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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #42)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:04 AM

greyl (16,995 posts)

58. That fact that you are pulling rank instead of offering reasoning,







leads me to believe you are occupying space in a Host slot rather than using it as it was intended.


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Response to greyl (Reply #58)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:06 AM

rhett o rick (36,391 posts)

59. If claiming that non-hosts dont have a vote is "pulling rank" then I am guilty. I resent your







pressure to try to get me to see things your way.

I voted to leave and I dont owe you an explanation.


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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #59)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:13 AM

greyl (16,995 posts)

63. Nobody is arguing that non-GD Hosts have a vote.







You are arguing that the opinion of non-GD Hosts offered here in this decision making discussion should be ignored.

I say good luck trying to get people to ignore good reasoning from other DU Hosts.


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Response to greyl (Reply #63)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:19 AM

bettyellen (24,490 posts)

65. I didn't try and vote, we just discussed our opinions calmly. for this I am accused of being part of







some group or another. LOL. Ridiculous.



" I try to lock those threads that violate the SOP, period. If one gets left inappropriately, we cant just let the retaliatory OP stand if it violates the SOP. " -


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Response to bettyellen (Reply #65)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:26 AM

greyl (16,995 posts)

68. I've just lost my patience with Hosts who think all they're supposed to do is vote, not think.







When Hosting on DU3 was new, it was different. But after seeing a pattern of Hosts voting Leave while offering little reason for doing so, and when at least one of them goes so far as to say they'll usually vote Leave regardless of whether the Post violates the SOP, I think it's impossible for other Hosts not to learn from that and adjust their adjudicating appropriately.


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Response to greyl (Reply #68)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:32 AM

bettyellen (24,490 posts)

71. yeah, as one said- we usually leave everything, so why not leave everything, LOL.







And that's the best reason they have for this crap? It's pretty funny.


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Response to bettyellen (Reply #71)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:50 AM

Agschmid (8,333 posts)

73. You should sign up for GD if you feel you could make a positive impact.









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Response to Agschmid (Reply #73)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:57 AM

bettyellen (24,490 posts)

75. not sure how one could these days- with fellow hosts accusing others of bias, yet offering no







rationale for their decisions of allow the SOP to be explictly violated. I hosted before, and it was different. I think they'll always be one head poppin gin with a "leave!!- no consensus possible", now that people realize that is a thing they can do. Always had hosts who did not want to enforce the SOP, but they used to be expected to explain why.


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Response to bettyellen (Reply #75)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:06 AM

Aerows (24,499 posts)

79. He busted a thread that had no concensus







And went off on his own to lock it. That's bullshit.


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Response to Aerows (Reply #79)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:14 AM

bettyellen (24,490 posts)

82. I don't agree with that, nor do I agree on voting to totally disregard the SOP w/ no explaination







The thread was pretty clearly whining about DU, which is just about the only thing that actually does get locked around here, these days.


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Response to bettyellen (Reply #82)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:28 AM

Aerows (24,499 posts)

86. You don't go off on your own







and lock a thread without consensus, and it was not established.

Good bad or indifferent, rules are in place for a reason.


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Response to Aerows (Reply #86)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:31 AM

bettyellen (24,490 posts)

87. I already agreed with that?







But, rules are completely different for some posters than others, and it has always been that way to some extent.
I remember the first day I hosted, someone said they always ignore X persons alerts. And someone else said, oh they alwys have broken that rule, so we can't enforce it. It was terribly confusing!


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Response to greyl (Reply #58)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 05:05 AM

pacalo (23,252 posts)

110. "Pulling rank" belongs to the host who locked without consensus.







Skinner has stated that the hosts are, in effect, free to use their own judgment. Like the jury system, you get the luck of the draw in the different mindsets who serve as a team at any given phase DU is going through at the time.

You sound angry, to be frank.


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Response to greyl (Reply #36)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 04:43 AM

pacalo (23,252 posts)

109. NaGDH: The hosts who voted to leave aren't the ones who need to address ATA.







The ones who are not able to get past opposing hosting opinions are the ones complaining here. There was no consensus to lock this thread.


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Response to greyl (Reply #26)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 09:17 AM

Bobbie Jo (9,525 posts)

134. Well, one did







http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1243&pid=89569

I suspect this is why others didn't feel the to explain.

Seems pretty clear to me, apparently the wrong "group" alerted.

Nope, no bias at work here. Totally above board and a good faith effort.

The inadvertent honesty is kinda interesting, no?



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Response to Agschmid (Original post)

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:57 PM

itsrobert (10,393 posts)

29. GDH - Lock







Meta - Whining about DU


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Response to Agschmid (Original post)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:08 AM

ucrdem (3,825 posts)

39. It is locked.







Here is the lock message:

Locking. Complaining about jury decisions violates the GD Statement of Purpose.

It's one of only a few things that does:


Statement of Purpose: Discuss politics, issues, and current events. No posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports unless there is really big news. No conspiracy theories. No whining about DU.


Thanks for understanding.
...........................................................
Agschmid, I recommend that you self-delete the OP. I will take full responsibility for this decision. Complaints should be made in ATA. Thanks all and good night.

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #39)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:10 AM

Agschmid (8,333 posts)

40. I'll leave it open, thanks for the recommendation but I imagine...







there will be some further discussion here.


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Response to Agschmid (Reply #40)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:12 AM

greyl (16,995 posts)

41. Good Leave. nt









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Response to ucrdem (Reply #39)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:39 AM

rhett o rick (36,391 posts)

43. GDH - I am respectfully requesting that you unlock this. Remember those here that







are not GD Hosts DONT GET TO VOTE. I am a strong leave. You and the non-hosts dont get to decide if my Leave is worthy.

Please unlock this now.


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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #43)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:42 AM

Violet_Crumble (32,238 posts)

45. I'm just popping in with a lock vote and a question







I thought whining about hidden posts was something skinner had told us we should be locking. So why wouldn't this one fall into that category?


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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #45)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:11 AM

rhett o rick (36,391 posts)

62. I dont see this as whining. Sometimes we dont all agree, but some here cant handle that.







I am not referring to you Violet.


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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #62)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:56 AM

Violet_Crumble (32,238 posts)

74. That's fair enough. Fwiw I don't see it as disruptive meta







Not like the ones where someone calls for the nuking of another DUer. I'm not going to die in a ditch over it so I'm changing my vote to WSC.......


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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #43)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:03 AM

Aerows (24,499 posts)

77. It's a leave







he just hauled off and locked it.


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Response to ucrdem (Reply #39)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:43 AM

Hassin Bin Sober (10,894 posts)

46. You need to unlock this. You had no consensus.









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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #46)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:46 AM

Agschmid (8,333 posts)

48. Yup.









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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #46)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:04 AM

Aerows (24,499 posts)

78. Exactly.







I have no idea who he thinks he that he can just swing in and lock threads without consensus, but that was a horrible lock. He needs to get kicked.


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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #46)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 05:13 AM

pacalo (23,252 posts)

111. Agree.









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Response to ucrdem (Reply #39)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:02 AM

Aerows (24,499 posts)

76. You locked without consensus







That is a no no.


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Response to Agschmid (Original post)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:50 AM

rhett o rick (36,391 posts)

49. GDH - I see a vote of three Leaves and two locks. There is no consensus to lock. This is crazy.







Non-hosts are in here telling a host what to do. No one appointed ucrdem as the decider. He does not have the power to review other hosts reasons for their votes and decide whether they are valid or not.

Of course there are a bunch of alerts. They are all in the same "Group".



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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #49)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:54 AM

Agschmid (8,333 posts)

51. I could honestly care less who the alerters are... this lock was without any consensus from GDH.









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Response to Agschmid (Reply #51)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:59 AM

rhett o rick (36,391 posts)

54. I only mentioned it because the number of alerters was being used as a reason to lock. It's not a







popularity contest. The non-hosts dont get to vote.

I agree that this was locked without a clear consensus.


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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #54)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:10 AM

bettyellen (24,490 posts)

60. It's not a popularity contest- but you've given no one any reason to allow the SOP to be ignored







no one has. What is up with that?




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Response to bettyellen (Reply #60)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:17 AM

Agschmid (8,333 posts)

64. Is that a required portion of our job?









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Response to Agschmid (Reply #64)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:22 AM

bettyellen (24,490 posts)

66. I think if you want to leave something that CLEARLY violates the SOP, you owe your fellow hosts the







courtesy of why you want to make a special exemption for this violation.


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Response to bettyellen (Reply #66)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:25 AM

Agschmid (8,333 posts)

67. In this case I didn't actually vote, as I stated multiple times.







So no special exemption from me, I just am unhappy with how the lock happened. There were 3-ish leave votes and to me that does not mean we had arrived at consensus.

Anyways not going to beat a dead horse here. Hopefully this gets re-visited by the locking host, goodnight.


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Response to Agschmid (Reply #67)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:30 AM

bettyellen (24,490 posts)

69. I understand totally. Sad you invited other hosts opinions only to have us insulted and accused of







pushing anyone to do anything. You can't express an opinion these days without some pretending it's abusive or totolitarinism, LOL.
That no one could provide a rationale, is an interesting point.

(It was a those three you, and not a you you. - And NONE of it is personal)


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Response to bettyellen (Reply #69)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:31 AM

Agschmid (8,333 posts)

70. Well they still might, who knows there is always tomorrow.







Reason or not I feel their voices were important.

Thanks, goodnight.


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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #54)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:07 AM

Aerows (24,499 posts)

80. It isn't a popularity contest







but some people want to make it one, and it is plain stupid to allow it to continue.


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Response to Aerows (Reply #80)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:22 AM

bettyellen (24,490 posts)

84. It is about Willie being popular, yep. And maybe about people just hating any rules here at all.










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Response to bettyellen (Reply #84)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:49 AM

Aerows (24,499 posts)

89. Locking a thread







without consensus is against the rules. Is that how you define "hating the rules"? Because I define them that way.


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Response to Aerows (Reply #89)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:54 AM

bettyellen (24,490 posts)

91. I already agreed with you in that so many times, I moved on to discuss other rules







And how they don't see to apply to some posters, or matter to some hosts.

Not exactly a secret, and it appears it's always been that way.


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Response to bettyellen (Reply #91)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 03:08 AM

Aerows (24,499 posts)

96. I didn't mean to run it into the ground







I do agree with you that it doesn't seem to apply to certain posters.


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Response to Aerows (Reply #96)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 03:18 AM

bettyellen (24,490 posts)

99. I'm shocked I'm apparently in a group now?







What bullshit. Really embarrassing revelation about the "thinking" that goes on here.


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Response to bettyellen (Reply #99)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 03:21 AM

Aerows (24,499 posts)

101. ?







I am clueless as to this response. Are you sure it was intended for me ?


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Response to Aerows (Reply #101)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 03:24 AM

bettyellen (24,490 posts)

102. I thought you'd have seen post 44. Apparently some DUers are better than others







According to hosts here.

Like I said, there have always been biased hosts.


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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #49)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:59 AM

greyl (16,995 posts)

53. Some reasoning is persuasive.







Zero reasoning is not.

Zero reasoning is what the Leave votes offered.


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Response to greyl (Reply #53)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:01 AM

Agschmid (8,333 posts)

55. Are they even here right now?







If there is mixed consensus is it the right thing to do to lock a thread and then walk away? It's 1:01AM EST potentially the leave votes are in bed, I don't see any reason this had to be a rushed lock which is what it turned out to be.


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Response to Agschmid (Reply #55)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:36 AM

greyl (16,995 posts)

72. Half are here, counting you.







How long to wait for all the Leave votes to reply with some reasoning and rebuttal to all the Lock reasons given in the Alerts and Host replies here is a judgement call with a very fuzzy target.

I do think it may have bought some more time if the first objectors here to the Lock offered good reasons for Leaving it.


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Response to Agschmid (Reply #55)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 08:26 AM

Autumn (16,209 posts)

126. It was my Son in Laws birthday BBQ. I looked in a few times and saw this one and said I was a leave.







as I did on the taterguy alert. I was unaware we had new administrators who are making the rules now.


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Response to greyl (Reply #53)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:03 AM

rhett o rick (36,391 posts)

57. I certainly agree that reasoning is persuasive. But there is no requirement for hosts to justify







their votes. Posts are to be left open unless there is a clear consensus to lock. If three host vote to leave, that's enough to indicate that there is not a clear consensus. To pretend that our votes dont count because you dont like our reasoning is crap. I was at dinner when ucrdem unilaterally decided to lock, based on pressure from non-hosts. That's bullcrap.


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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #57)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:10 AM

greyl (16,995 posts)

61. I said "some" reasoning,







implying that there is other reasoning that is not persuasive. I didn't mean to say "an amount of" reasoning is persuasive, because some reasoning out there is lousy. Just because it's offered as reasoning, doesn't mean it's worth a damn, iow.


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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #49)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 05:35 AM

pacalo (23,252 posts)

113. Your post here is what moved me to join in on this thread to give it some balance.








Non-hosts are in here telling a host what to do.


I'm a non-host who believes there was no consensus to lock this OP.



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Response to Agschmid (Original post)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:26 AM

Behind the Aegis (32,910 posts)

85. This is fucking absurd!







On Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:00 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Locking. Complaining about jury decisions violates the GD Statement of Purpose.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5036606

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Abuse of host privileges, he did not get consensus.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:11 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: We're in for a rough ride
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Good God Almighty, am I glad my GD hosting tour is over. - Lasher
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is one of the most pathetic uses of the alert system ever! If he is seen as abusing his hosting duties, take it up with Skinner, and for the record, your host privileges should also be revoked!
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: An alert sent on a host's locking post???

This place is now officially nuts.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I stick by my comments (#5)!


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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #85)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:55 AM

bettyellen (24,490 posts)

92. OMG! Hilarious.









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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #85)

Mon Jun 2, 2014, 03:04 AM

Aerows (24,499 posts)

95. My word







we have entered a new era. We alert on alerts about alerts


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