General Discussion

LWolf

(46,179 posts)

46. I lived through the time. I understand.

Tue Jul 8, 2014, 06:21 PM

Jul 2014

I understand that nationalistic posturing and emotional jingoism were the automatic response of politicians scrambling to COA and maintain a fairly unified party front in the face of the fear and anger that dumped the natural disdain for GWB into the toilet. I understand that the majority of the nation, most Democrats included, were totally caught up in that fear and anger, and that the thinking part of their brains didn't return until it was too late.

I understand it, but I didn't then, and don't now, like it, agree with it, or stand behind it. Nobody gets a pass from me. Including John Kerry, who was, for me, a hold-my-nose vote in '04. And yes, the issues I have with Clinton go beyond that. I could make a big long list, but they would boil down to just one thing: she's a neo-liberal, and everything on my list is connected to that.

She lost my respect very early on, though. The very first time I heard her name or saw her speak, back on 60 minutes in '92, where she explained so eloquently why she wasn't standing by her man for his supposedly erstwhile cheating while she very blatantly did just that.

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"Hillary Bashing" [View all] WilliamPitt Jul 2014 OP

Here Here ! nt clarice Jul 2014 #1

Hear, Hear, too! mckara Jul 2014 #81

Hillary is the best candidate we have yeoman6987 Jul 2014 #90

That's very sad. 840high Jul 2014 #95

Not if you're okay with rand paul picking the next Supreme Court justices. calimary Jul 2014 #100

agree rtracey Jul 2014 #199

or Joe Biden reddread Jul 2014 #223

I agree.. abakan Jul 2014 #231

no you dont, sadly you didnt understand me at all reddread Jul 2014 #253

Congrats, you live in the real world LordGlenconner Jul 2014 #240

I don't believe that Aerows Jul 2014 #111

Oh yeah, those are A listers. Beacool Jul 2014 #201

and that's what it all boils down to. brand loyalty. frylock Jul 2014 #234

That's what reporters and news anchors Stellar Jul 2014 #127

You better get ready for Jeb then!! pocoloco Jul 2014 #162

What BS. Are you stating that we can't find a single Live and Learn Jul 2014 #170

God help us if Hillary is the best we can do lululu Jul 2014 #193

I can think of TWO others Omaha Steve Jul 2014 #212

To do what....?????? grahamhgreen Jul 2014 #247

You have stated the truth with your normal incisiveness and clarity, my dear Will... CaliforniaPeggy Jul 2014 #2

Yes, needs to be stated, over and over. Well said WP! InAbLuEsTaTe Jul 2014 #129

Thanks, Mr. Pitt. Divernan Jul 2014 #3

so why are most threads about how much money she made , calling her a rodeo clown JI7 Jul 2014 #4

I've seen one thread each on the clown and bomb topics. A few about money. arcane1 Jul 2014 #29

there have been more but that's what people referring to when talking about bashing JI7 Jul 2014 #30

I would agree there, especially the clown bit. arcane1 Jul 2014 #34

clown != rodeo clown. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #51

And it was the Pres who said pscot Jul 2014 #133

It's not the money she made, it's the money she claims to have not had Scootaloo Jul 2014 #156

She wasn't called a rodeo clown. ZombieHorde Jul 2014 #159

They are just trying to head off any and all criticism. morningfog Jul 2014 #5

She has not announced, but she's been a candidate for quite a while. merrily Jul 2014 #7

for those of us in the tech community --- her support for H-1B visas antigop Jul 2014 #6

This message was self-deleted by its author antigop Jul 2014 #8

H-1Bs are terrible lululu Jul 2014 #194

"H-1Bs are at home outsourcing." ....EXACTLY! beerandjesus Jul 2014 #202

And look at how they prosecuted Nagin, but many exploiting H-2B visa program still being sued... cascadiance Jul 2014 #243

Clinton's free-trade advocacy is hitting labor where it lives antigop Jul 2014 #259

"There is no STEM shortage.... " SomeGuyInEagan Jul 2014 #225

Yes and Obama said... lexx21 Jul 2014 #258

Will I'm going out on a limb here and gonna say Autumn Jul 2014 #9

he is now on the Clinton frenemy list. nt antigop Jul 2014 #11

In the words of another advocate for the Iraq invasion... WilliamPitt Jul 2014 #12

Fuck it, I'm ready for ...bring it on. Autumn Jul 2014 #16

There will be a lot of us in trouble along with him. Like me. Because I will not support Hillary. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #39

I love Hillary, I have had the pleasure of speaking to her about health care and a few other things. Autumn Jul 2014 #50

I'm with you. I would love to see a woman president. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #56

It's time for the correct woman. obxhead Jul 2014 #68

Yes. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #186

Gender should not be a litmus test swilton Jul 2014 #123

I agree with you. Granny M Jul 2014 #175

Thank you. beerandjesus Jul 2014 #205

"Another 8 years of the same" ?? sunnystarr Jul 2014 #104

Tell you what. Try reading my post, I don't know were you pulled the "If you don't like Hillary" Autumn Jul 2014 #109

Maybe it was when you said ... sunnystarr Jul 2014 #229

Well there ya go. Autumn Jul 2014 #230

Um, do Democrats not have access to the media? beerandjesus Jul 2014 #207

I can't forgive her for THIS: "We Came, We Saw, He Died".... KoKo Jul 2014 #106

Let's not forget swilton Jul 2014 #120

And this was after Qaddhafi had given up nuclear weapons and so on lululu Jul 2014 #195

Not only will I contribute to her primary opponent, if she wins the nomination Ikonoklast Jul 2014 #114

This message was self-deleted by its author sammy27932003 Jul 2014 #277

+++ swilton Jul 2014 #116

The biggest mistake would be "no primary" fadedrose Jul 2014 #239

Oh, we will have a primary. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #241

Huh? I haven't seen anyone advocating for no primary. n/t winter is coming Jul 2014 #242

Will has "stepped in it" FOR SURE........ KoKo Jul 2014 #63

He was hated before but now..... Autumn Jul 2014 #65

She did not merely vote for the Iraq War. She advocated for it. merrily Jul 2014 #10

She took that vote very seriously. Once she MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #23

Well, that is what she said, anyway, after her vote proved a liability to her merrily Jul 2014 #25

"I was wrong on the most important vote of my life; do I have your vote?" MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #28

None of her explanations were good. merrily Jul 2014 #166

Good thing she didn't have her finger on the nuke button. L0oniX Jul 2014 #216

How many Iraqi children died horrible deaths because we didnt stop our government. George Bush rhett o rick Jul 2014 #273

I have no issue with people challenging her views. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #13

Thanks for posting this. TBF Jul 2014 #27

Your welcome. It is a tell that they ignore it. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #33

I for one read that post, and found it very interesting. beerandjesus Jul 2014 #210

i know a bunch of her supporters and they are regularly involved in working JI7 Jul 2014 #37

Not that I'm a supporter, but Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #53

I am not completely sure what it is but I am glad tbey are giving Dems money. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #57

Remains to be seen whether being ASSOCIATED with Hillary is going to be a help, n'est-ce pas? djean111 Jul 2014 #54

I imagine Sothern Dems up in the senate will ask her to go to their states. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #58

TY for the link and info, hrmjustin. I've kicked it. Hekate Jul 2014 #60

Your welcome. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #64

Agreed theHandpuppet Jul 2014 #141

And it is so early. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #145

I was at work yesterday, so didn't see the post. but thank you for the link magical thyme Jul 2014 #236

Your welcome. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #237

This message was self-deleted by its author Adam051188 Jul 2014 #14

Is that the only measure that matters? Scuba Jul 2014 #180

I anticipate every bit as much unity in 2016 as we had in 1968 corkhead Jul 2014 #15

Lovely thought; that's how we got Dick Nixon & Company. nt Hekate Jul 2014 #62

I agree with you on much of what you post. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #17

So. WilliamPitt Jul 2014 #20

I lived through the time and understand why a Senator would vote in favor given the evidence. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #26

Huh? 21 Democratic senators voted against the AUMF MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #31

Nope, you are wrong. 98-0 SJ Res 23 MohRokTah Jul 2014 #38

So when Hillary says she got it wrong, she meant the Afghanistan AUMF? MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #40

Read the original AUMF. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #43

So Hillary's wrong to admit she was wrong on the 2002 AUMF, MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #45

Nope, she should have voted against it MohRokTah Jul 2014 #48

I understand now why you support her. GeorgeGist Jul 2014 #121

+1 MrMickeysMom Jul 2014 #134

Forgive me for understanding that politicians make political decisions MohRokTah Jul 2014 #138

well, now she's going to have that vote held against her in a presidential race frylock Jul 2014 #238

Thank you dreamnightwind Jul 2014 #132

I lived through the time. I understand. LWolf Jul 2014 #46

lame revisionism.... mike_c Jul 2014 #49

her vote was cowardice. I am sick of dems without class. she didn't just vote for something that roguevalley Jul 2014 #59

You are describing a total lack of leadership skills. Union Scribe Jul 2014 #70

I'm saying it doesn't mean fuck all in 2016. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #73

Lol. Of course she does. Union Scribe Jul 2014 #76

. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #89

With Iraq dissolving now, it will mean fuck all, or at least fuck some. morningfog Jul 2014 #181

. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #187

She's Inevitable! For real THIS TIME! morningfog Jul 2014 #189

Ridiculous. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #191

INEVITABLE!!!! Number 45! morningfog Jul 2014 #235

then you support the corpocracy through and thorugh. period. cali Jul 2014 #213

Senators are privy to far more info than we get on MSNBC and co obxhead Jul 2014 #72

Bullshit. Hissyspit Jul 2014 #98

There were an awful lot of us out there who understood quite clearly SheilaT Jul 2014 #119

No, thats not true at all arikara Jul 2014 #148

So you're point is that she was "fooled" by Bush and the "intelligence" evidence he had? rhett o rick Jul 2014 #153

Do we want someone who gets "fooled" with a finger on the nuke button? L0oniX Jul 2014 #214

Ya know, Will ... NanceGreggs Jul 2014 #75

Wasn't Clinton's embrace of the Patriot Act, the Iraq War, and Keystone XL, MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #82

You're not the one missing anything! nt Union Scribe Jul 2014 #84

MohRokTah's reply was ... NanceGreggs Jul 2014 #91

What are some other reasonable scenarios that fit MoRokTah's response? MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #94

lol. way to misquote and twist there, Ms. Greggs cali Jul 2014 #217

... NanceGreggs Jul 2014 #248

Just because I approve of those that approve of the Iraq War, the XL Pipeling, the Patriot Act, rhett o rick Jul 2014 #227

Do you understand ... NanceGreggs Jul 2014 #269

I am sorry. I should no better than try to discuss something with you. My mistake. nm rhett o rick Jul 2014 #270

Actually ... NanceGreggs Jul 2014 #271

So what is your goal here in DU? Apparently not to discuss issues. Do you even call yourself rhett o rick Jul 2014 #272

What I call myself ... NanceGreggs Jul 2014 #275

I am also a Democrat but I do not worship at the alter of the Giant D. rhett o rick Jul 2014 #279

The issue here ... NanceGreggs Jul 2014 #280

I support the Democratic Party and especially the principles of the Democratic Party. rhett o rick Jul 2014 #281

Very good post. JoePhilly Jul 2014 #86

Knee-jerk reaction??? WilliamPitt Jul 2014 #88

I am not taking issue with your OP. NanceGreggs Jul 2014 #122

Nope dreamnightwind Jul 2014 #137

Again ... NanceGreggs Jul 2014 #150

You're right about the "blanket statement of support" dreamnightwind Jul 2014 #251

Thank you for your civil ... NanceGreggs Jul 2014 #274

Well I get that dreamnightwind Jul 2014 #276

"I've known you and respected you a long, long time. You're better than that." NealK Jul 2014 #264

I don't know about this particular poster but NealK Jul 2014 #78

I have to say, I feel another great article coming down the pike by you. Autumn Jul 2014 #83

All of the above arikara Jul 2014 #18

Too many Dems feel what makes America GREAT is money and power. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2014 #19

I LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE HILLARY CLINTON ! ! ! Trajan Jul 2014 #21

Yes, keep your head down! NealK Jul 2014 #80

pretend like it's Bosnia frylock Jul 2014 #245

Nor are her close ties to Monsanto or her support of "free trade and raid" agreements like TPP Armstead Jul 2014 #22

Agreed Boom Sound 416 Jul 2014 #24

K&R! Hillary's judgment is profoundly questionable. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #32

Spot on, Will. Let's get a real progressive, no more corporate compromises LittleBlue Jul 2014 #35

I will happily bash Hillary Clinton until the day it becomes apparent... mike_c Jul 2014 #36

She has a good record on women's rights. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #55

And her working to bring about the TPP dirtydickcheney Jul 2014 #41

Yes, we can't forget that because it's ongoing. Union Scribe Jul 2014 #71

I agree BUT heaven05 Jul 2014 #42

I sadly must agree. "Anyone but Hillary" is fine for primary season - and I fully endorse it - nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #101

I agree sellitman Jul 2014 #124

My thoughts exactly. nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #128

comes easily, and I imagine heaven05 Jul 2014 #196

I don't agree that her judgment on important issues has been questionable tularetom Jul 2014 #44

I haven't forgotten how "inevitable" rocktivity Jul 2014 #47

You can't even begin to compare her poll numbers in 2005 to early 2007 to what she has today. StevieM Jul 2014 #96

Rand Paul For PResident and cant wait to see his SC appointments !!!! randys1 Jul 2014 #52

That's the thing. I'm far from satisfied with the "leaders" on the Dem side, but compared to nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #103

I still hold that the reason the MSM has Ms.Clinton as the "anointed one" Half-Century Man Jul 2014 #61

"but it's got electrolytes" MisterP Jul 2014 #66

that response is without merit heaven05 Jul 2014 #203

Her ties to drug companies, obxhead Jul 2014 #67

Mere details. That was then. marble falls Jul 2014 #69

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jul 2014 #74

Let me pose a rather different question sadoldgirl Jul 2014 #77

Now Will...... DeSwiss Jul 2014 #79

let's pretend that the complaints of 'bashing' are all against legitimate issues like you say bigtree Jul 2014 #85

All that plus C Street KamaAina Jul 2014 #87

I read a lot of bashing is means to try to get some here to like other possible candidates, but Thinkingabout Jul 2014 #92

Or you could just go with the obvious conclusion Aerows Jul 2014 #112

K&R Solly Mack Jul 2014 #93

It's not "bashing." Hillary has been around a while and has a long record. EEO Jul 2014 #97

my friend, it is that part where you cant say anything good about her. mopinko Jul 2014 #99

Curious, if per chance Ms Clinton wins the Primary's whom would you use your right to vote for? AuntPatsy Jul 2014 #102

Can't speak for Will, but serious reservations aside, I'll vote for her in the general. nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #108

If Hillary wins the nomination... wyldwolf Jul 2014 #110

IF Hillary wins the nomination Aerows Jul 2014 #113

anything to back that up, or is this just another one of your gut feelings? frylock Jul 2014 #246

This ^ LordGlenconner Jul 2014 #263

I was arguing on foxnews.com last night over the minimum wage increase in Seattle and I realized... String Fiesta Jul 2014 #105

I think we have all had an education on how corporations screw us Aerows Jul 2014 #115

Transparent, but with some tuning, I think you'll have it nailed. DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2014 #136

Maybe those that do want her as President Aerows Jul 2014 #107

Indeed. Veilex Jul 2014 #117

William you know it ain't easy! Rosa Luxemburg Jul 2014 #118

I wouldn't object to "Hillary Bashing" cheapdate Jul 2014 #125

Hillary is the worst in our party: A Vichy Democrat and moral coward, if not utter nihilist. True Blue Door Jul 2014 #126

the choice is simple whereisjustice Jul 2014 #130

Your post has been alerted, not by me. NYC_SKP Jul 2014 #147

What's the rationale for alerting? arikara Jul 2014 #149

I forgot exactly what it said.... NYC_SKP Jul 2014 #152

Thanks arikara Jul 2014 #154

Oh the possibility of a tainted pro Hillary jury pool. Can't wait for the primary. L0oniX Jul 2014 #218

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service NYC_SKP Jul 2014 #157

Thanks again arikara Jul 2014 #161

really heaven05 Jul 2014 #200

"dumb alert" No. Dumb alert'r. Like DU needs this kind of alerting ...it's fucking stupid. L0oniX Jul 2014 #220

All 7 folks on this jury were idiots. This is Dem bashing. Plain and simple. TeamPooka Jul 2014 #250

That's totally not alertable.. some Alerters need to get a Grip. Cha Jul 2014 #168

Welcome to DU arikara Jul 2014 #151

Welcome and thank you. pa28 Jul 2014 #160

... Scuba Jul 2014 #182

Reminds me of: "It's a two party system..." abelenkpe Jul 2014 #252

Perfect Capt. Obvious Jul 2014 #197

+1 leftstreet Jul 2014 #244

so you showed up to bash the Democratic Party and their candidates? Ignored. nt TeamPooka Jul 2014 #249

Thank you Thespian2 Jul 2014 #131

I DON'T interpret this as bashing� I think it's the only thing to say at this point... MrMickeysMom Jul 2014 #135

This message was self-deleted by its author lostincalifornia Jul 2014 #158

Warren has never said she will not run. Scuba Jul 2014 #183

This message was self-deleted by its author lostincalifornia Jul 2014 #204

You're entitled to your opinion, but the fact remains: Warren has never said she will not run. Scuba Jul 2014 #206

Pretty sure I heard her say she's not running the last time she was on The Colbert Report. winter is coming Jul 2014 #215

This message was self-deleted by its author lostincalifornia Jul 2014 #221

I'll correct you on what you think I wrote... MrMickeysMom Jul 2014 #267

This message was self-deleted by its author lostincalifornia Jul 2014 #278

Remind me sometime... MrMickeysMom Jul 2014 #282

Thank you, Will MissDeeds Jul 2014 #139

You supported Kerry dsc Jul 2014 #140

Clinton showed so much more as SoS while Harmony Blue Jul 2014 #142

frankly I don't have a problem with Kerry's conduct as SOS dsc Jul 2014 #144

That's what I was thinking dsc.. I remember that well having been a Dean Supporter. nm Cha Jul 2014 #169

Bush was invading without AUMF. joshcryer Jul 2014 #143

K/R, WillPitt. NYC_SKP Jul 2014 #146

The issue is H is all we get, the Corporate Master Titans have chose and spoken it nolabels Jul 2014 #176

This message was self-deleted by its author lostincalifornia Jul 2014 #155

"Will posts and everyone bows" ...broad based snark attack on "everyone" Is that all you got? L0oniX Jul 2014 #222

I can name four good things she did, but that is not the point, is it? McCamy Taylor Jul 2014 #163

Here is what Hillary thinks of the Hillary Bashing McCamy Taylor Jul 2014 #164

This message was self-deleted by its author lostincalifornia Jul 2014 #167

Sort of like vampires, you need to drive the silver stake and that other vampire stuff to get....... nolabels Jul 2014 #177

Really? You Have Sarah Palin Calling For Impeachment, Boehner Sueing The POTUS & YOU BASH HILLARY Corey_Baker08 Jul 2014 #165

So you would impose Reagan's Eleventh Commandment on Democrats? Scuba Jul 2014 #184

Some people just don't realize that us Democrats are above scrutiny. We're exceptional and stuff. L0oniX Jul 2014 #224

Post removed Post removed Jul 2014 #266

This site is for progressives as well as democrats. L0oniX Jul 2014 #268

You gotta admit the caps really sealed it though... SomethingFishy Jul 2014 #283

Yea ...saw that. Would have liked to have seen the poster go off with caps on him. L0oniX Jul 2014 #284

The Nation's new article on NSA and Hillary Ichingcarpenter Jul 2014 #171

She voted against telecom immunity. joshcryer Jul 2014 #172

Running and Ruling are two different things for politicans Ichingcarpenter Jul 2014 #173

They went with the polls. joshcryer Jul 2014 #174

I call BS santroy79 Jul 2014 #178

With you. nt TBF Jul 2014 #188

Are you going to channel your anger towards get out the vote efforts this year? IronLionZion Jul 2014 #179

K&R. Pointing out a candidate's record is not bashing. Scuba Jul 2014 #185

Of course it's WAY more of the latter than the former Tom Rinaldo Jul 2014 #190

Elizabeth Warren supports Hillary Clinton for President. Is she.... brooklynite Jul 2014 #192

:) reddread Jul 2014 #254

No, some of you see what you want to see. Capt. Obvious Jul 2014 #198

Not every Dem is a Hillary-bot Larkspur Jul 2014 #208

Whatever, the constant drama here is ridiculous. Beacool Jul 2014 #209

^^ this. Reality. K&R nt TBF Jul 2014 #233

cheese processing plants and fracking reddread Jul 2014 #257

Got Hyperbole? rock Jul 2014 #211

Yeah, but she's gonna help make us all rich! closeupready Jul 2014 #219

they werent Americans anyway. reddread Jul 2014 #255

Hillary for President, but why are talking about 2016, let talk out 2014 lewebley3 Jul 2014 #226

so tell us about 2014? reddread Jul 2014 #256

Politics being the Art of the Possible Scott6113 Jul 2014 #228

buckle up, DUers who weren't here for the 08 primaries librechik Jul 2014 #232

That depends on who actually runs. onehandle Jul 2014 #260

I Will Never Vote For Hilary.... supercats Jul 2014 #261

I will if she's the Dem nom in the natl election. Iggo Jul 2014 #262

This message was self-deleted by its author lostincalifornia Jul 2014 #265