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pnwmom

(110,255 posts)

423. When there's no immediate risk of serious harm, which there wasn't, any judgment

Tue Jul 8, 2014, 11:42 PM

Jul 2014

to take a child away from her family should be made only with careful, deliberate consideration. If they were so concerned about the child's welfare, they could simply have reported their concerns to DCF, which would have been free to investigate the report even if the parents had moved Justina to Tufts.

The State of MA could have and should have taken the time to fully consult with her doctors at Tufts before snatching custody away from her parents. Instead, the social worker falsely said in her report to the judge -- which the judge relied on in making his decision -- that she had no idea where the parents got the diagnosis of mitochondrial disorder. (Even though Dr. Korson had telephoned her to explain the diagnosis and she had spoken with him.)

Then, with the doctors at Tufts and at Boston Children's at a stand-off, the Judge should have at least gotten expert opinions from other institutions. And he did not.

If he, DCF, and BC had take the proper, fully-considered action in the first place, they wouldn't have been left trying to figure out how to unwind their mistakes at the end.

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We failed her. Big time. Boston Children�s was experimenting on Justina Pelletier, [View all] pnwmom Jul 2014 OP

After reading this, I'm as outraged by this case as you are, but you realize tularetom Jul 2014 #1

The problem is that they are the ONLY places where you can find an interview pnwmom Jul 2014 #5

It's always been right wing sources. They've taken up this cause. kcr Jul 2014 #22

How do you see it? pnwmom Jul 2014 #51

She wasn't kidnapped to beging with and I doubt highly that she was tortured or expiremented on kcr Jul 2014 #54

She wasn't kidnapped? The parents lost custody for more than 16 months pnwmom Jul 2014 #60

Losing custody isn't the same as being kidnapped. n/t kcr Jul 2014 #61

It's just a matter of diction in circumstances like this. But you were the person pnwmom Jul 2014 #79

Only if you frame it the way the RW lunatics are. n/t kcr Jul 2014 #81

To the family, that's exactly how it felt. They brought their sick child to see a G.I. doc pnwmom Jul 2014 #98

As opposed to all the other families who've lost custody, who admit their wrongdoing kcr Jul 2014 #102

The critical difference here is that the state's only claim against them is that they were pnwmom Jul 2014 #109

And it could possibly be true kcr Jul 2014 #112

The state shouldn't grab custody for 16 months because of something that could "possibly be true." pnwmom Jul 2014 #114

Of course not kcr Jul 2014 #116

There's zero evidence that the parents were overmedicalizing her. pnwmom Jul 2014 #119

And you know this how? From the parents and their media representation? kcr Jul 2014 #122

From the Boston Globe and the Hartford Courant. pnwmom Jul 2014 #127

So? That can't possibly be a reason to remove a child from care? kcr Jul 2014 #130

It was NOT a good reason to remove a child from care pnwmom Jul 2014 #137

How do we know they didn't bother? Did they admit that themselves? kcr Jul 2014 #143

Because I believe the Tufts doctor, and that was his sworn testimony at a hearing. pnwmom Jul 2014 #149

One doctor, who isn't convinced his own diagnosis may be wrong. kcr Jul 2014 #151

He testified that the doctors wouldn't speak with him. That was evidence. pnwmom Jul 2014 #158

That's not evidence they didn't consult with anyone. kcr Jul 2014 #160

They didn't consult with the ONE person who knew more about her case and pnwmom Jul 2014 #166

Doctors are never wrong. Except when the ones not on your side. kcr Jul 2014 #169

So why should the state be able to choose the diagnosis of the psychiatrists pnwmom Jul 2014 #173

It's your and the parent's claim that that's what happened. kcr Jul 2014 #180

I'm not alleging a conspiracy. But there is overwhelming evidence pnwmom Jul 2014 #182

What evidence? kcr Jul 2014 #183

Read the court documents. You can find them. n/t pnwmom Jul 2014 #185

I have. kcr Jul 2014 #197

The Boston docs refused to even liberalhistorian Jul 2014 #287

Claims made by the parents and their supporters kcr Jul 2014 #303

Sorry, but her own CT doctors liberalhistorian Jul 2014 #308

That's assuming the claim about it being about a disagreement over a diagnosis is correct. kcr Jul 2014 #309

Taking a child away from her parents is supposed to require some evidence to back it up. pnwmom Jul 2014 #436

In this case, it was, it's just a matter liberalhistorian Jul 2014 #285

Parents who've had their children removed aren't allowed to see their children whenever they want kcr Jul 2014 #302

So parents who suddenly and without hardly liberalhistorian Jul 2014 #310

What psychiatrist said he didn't believe in it? BCH has specialists in mitochondial disease. kcr Jul 2014 #311

What you are saying might have made some sense before but everything is completely pnwmom Jul 2014 #326

If BC admitted they were wrong, it should be easy for you to show where that happened. kcr Jul 2014 #331

They recommended she be returned to her old doctors and her family. That is fact. nt pnwmom Jul 2014 #334

And that's admitting they were wrong how? kcr Jul 2014 #335

Save your fingertips. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #341

Way to twist my words. kcr Jul 2014 #350

"It's stating there's a lack of evidence." Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #356

I'm not accusing the Pelletiers of lying. I just require evidence to back up their claims. kcr Jul 2014 #358

"I'm not accusing the Pelletiers of lying. I just require evidence to back up their claims." Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #360

I guess my bias is showing by not accepting a questionable source kcr Jul 2014 #364

Either the video is an accurate depiciton of reality or it is not. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #368

My assertion isn't that it's not accurate. My assertion is the source is questionable. kcr Jul 2014 #373

Nothing makes it questionable except your bias. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #376

My bias against RW sources? Guilty as charged. kcr Jul 2014 #378

The RW didn't create the video. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #383

So if a UFO conspiracy site doesn't actually make the video they post as evidence kcr Jul 2014 #384

What you're being required to defend is your unsupported, evidence-free allegations. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #392

It's unsupported that RW sources can't be trusted? kcr Jul 2014 #394

That's not what I said and you know it. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #403

It seems that's what you're saying to me. kcr Jul 2014 #406

There was NO significant evidence of harm, abuse, or neglect. None. Zero. Zilch. pnwmom Jul 2014 #438

Justina isn't a UFO. She's a real human being, who people like you pnwmom Jul 2014 #437

What frightens me the most about it is liberalhistorian Jul 2014 #284

good for McDermott KT2000 Jul 2014 #2

We don't know the whole story and I'm skeptical this is the whole truth. n/t seaglass Jul 2014 #3

The fact is that the state finally returned her to the care of her Tufts doctors, pnwmom Jul 2014 #6

Appreciate McDermott, the OP and analysis more than you'll ever know. You have my heartfelt thanks. freshwest Jul 2014 #276

Thank you, freshwest! n/t pnwmom Jul 2014 #277

Same here Lee-Lee Jul 2014 #14

I'm sure there will be more once the parents file suit. pnwmom Jul 2014 #17

It stinks to high heaven that right wing sites are the only place for "news" on this. alarimer Jul 2014 #235

The Boston Globe is a liberal paper, and the Hartford Courant is, too. pnwmom Jul 2014 #267

K&R me b zola Jul 2014 #4

Other than the "parent-ectomy", what was the experimental treatment? moriah Jul 2014 #7

A combination of withdrawing her medications -- which is a treatment in itself -- pnwmom Jul 2014 #9

If the misdiagnosis was not done intentionally, treating for a misdiagnosed condition is not.... moriah Jul 2014 #13

It is experimenting if she was enrolled as a subject in a research study pnwmom Jul 2014 #15

"Experimental treatment" vs "experimenting on kids".... moriah Jul 2014 #18

Psychological experiments might not sound as gruesome but they're still experiments. pnwmom Jul 2014 #21

"Behavior modification" sounds pretty gruesome to me - hedgehog Jul 2014 #260

It is. Imagine that you are very sick, painfully sick, with intense abdominal pain, pnwmom Jul 2014 #268

Which raises the question, just what the hell is "behavior modification"? hedgehog Jul 2014 #273

I bet we never find out. I bet that the hospital and insurance company lawyers pnwmom Jul 2014 #279

And it's used to treat ADHD, conduct disorder, etc, too. moriah Jul 2014 #278

Behavioral modification shouldn't be a legitimate treatment for somatic disorder. pnwmom Jul 2014 #288

Shades of gray here disequilibrium1 Jul 2014 #289

Thank you for all the links, disequilibrium1, pnwmom Jul 2014 #434

Is "somatic disorder" a real disease? I had the impression that the Harvard doctors came up hedgehog Jul 2014 #259

They used to think asthma was psychosomatic, until they figured out it wasn't. pnwmom Jul 2014 #269

It's in the DSM-V. moriah Jul 2014 #280

Yes, and it's very controversial. The editor of the DSM-IV pnwmom Jul 2014 #435

You aren't telling me things I don't know, I promise you. moriah Jul 2014 #442

Absolutely. A person can have both physical and mental or emotional conditions pnwmom Jul 2014 #443

I know this family gaspee Jul 2014 #8

Thank you for speaking up. To me, their "rude" reaction to the social workers pnwmom Jul 2014 #10

Justina is now also paralyzed from the waist down. riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #11

When she got the flu -- the cause of her going to the ER -- she was severely weakened pnwmom Jul 2014 #12

She now has no feeling below the waist according to the family riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #16

Please tell me this is a temporary condition. n/t Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #80

Well the Boston Children's docs, judge and MA DCF better hope so. riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #100

With mitochondrial disease, no one can know. pnwmom Jul 2014 #282

Wow! The Blaze thinks liberals are to blame. You've convinced me! FSogol Jul 2014 #19

I think many progressives who should have cared about this pnwmom Jul 2014 #23

"We"? In stories were it is difficult (to impossible) to tell who is right, FSogol Jul 2014 #28

I read enough in the Boston Globe's investigative reporting pnwmom Jul 2014 #30

"These are facts, according to the Boston Globe -- not a conservative rag." Great, then why bring FSogol Jul 2014 #32

Because Justina's video only got published by the Blaze. pnwmom Jul 2014 #34

Because they're the ones reporting the cray cray that some feel back their position kcr Jul 2014 #63

Some progressives are just statists Puzzledtraveller Jul 2014 #174

Thanks, Puzzledtraveller. pnwmom Jul 2014 #176

Do you agree with the statement that liberals are statists? kcr Jul 2014 #181

Not liberals in general, no. pnwmom Jul 2014 #184

Wait, I thought they used experimental treatments? kcr Jul 2014 #186

They did both. They withheld her medications pnwmom Jul 2014 #188

Withholding the treatments they thought were harming her is logical kcr Jul 2014 #193

No, it isn't. pnwmom Jul 2014 #201

Again. Not including that one doctor isn't evidence they didn't consult anyone else about her care. kcr Jul 2014 #207

Doesn't matter. He was the SINGLE most important doctor to consult pnwmom Jul 2014 #215

Yes, it does. kcr Jul 2014 #219

Yes, the Harvard M.D.eities "didn't wish to consult with that doctor." That says it all. n/t pnwmom Jul 2014 #222

Says what? kcr Jul 2014 #224

Of course they needed to. Obtaining her medical history would have been pnwmom Jul 2014 #227

Now the claim is they didn't obtain her medical history? kcr Jul 2014 #229

They absolutely didn't do that before making their decision -- which was done within 12 hours pnwmom Jul 2014 #232

How long does it take to obtain medical records? kcr Jul 2014 #233

The doctor needed to SPEAK to them and he was prevented from doing so. pnwmom Jul 2014 #236

It's your contention he needed to speak to them. kcr Jul 2014 #252

It is HIS contention he needed to speak to them. And he knew Justina, pnwmom Jul 2014 #255

Are you talking about her doctor from Tufts again? kcr Jul 2014 #256

BC is a consultant for DCF on medical issues. This is a fact, not tinfoil. pnwmom Jul 2014 #257

What's tinfoil is suggesting that the hospital being "consultants" is evidence of collusion. kcr Jul 2014 #306

It is evidence of conflict of interest. They weren't in the position to give a neutral opinion. pnwmom Jul 2014 #313

It seems to me that's what you're advocating kcr Jul 2014 #315

Did you read any of my previous posts? pnwmom Jul 2014 #316

Yes. I don't see the conspiracy you do. kcr Jul 2014 #322

They didn't have an imagined conflict of interest. They had a genuine conflict of interest. pnwmom Jul 2014 #325

Explain the conflict of interest kcr Jul 2014 #328

The same person performing a work pnwmom Jul 2014 #339

That's not the same thing as recognizing abuse. kcr Jul 2014 #344

The ONLY allegation of abuse was "overmedicalizing." pnwmom Jul 2014 #346

Guess what? That's a form of abuse. kcr Jul 2014 #347

Guess what? It's not overmedicalizing when it's treatment for a REAL condition pnwmom Jul 2014 #354

What does the fact that it's a REAL condition have to do with anything? kcr Jul 2014 #357

Sorry, but a source that you don't recall is worthless. I'm very familiar with the Globe pnwmom Jul 2014 #361

You got me, I'm totally making it up! Meanwhile, someone who sources the Daily Fail kcr Jul 2014 #363

At least I was open about those sources. Not telling you to trust my memory. pnwmom Jul 2014 #366

I'm not stopping you from forming your own opinions. kcr Jul 2014 #370

The Blaze was a valid source of Justina's videotaped interview. pnwmom Jul 2014 #372

Uh huh. Sure they are. kcr Jul 2014 #374

The only red flag is waving at the MSM's negligence in covering the story fully. pnwmom Jul 2014 #379

I don't think MSM needs to jump on every cause the RWers think is just. kcr Jul 2014 #380

This story was. Progressives value fairness and justice -- and children -- pnwmom Jul 2014 #381

That could be the explanation kcr Jul 2014 #385

Whatever drew the right to her cause, no one should be subjected pnwmom Jul 2014 #386

No one should be subjected to it? I disagree. Children would die if DCF were dismantled. kcr Jul 2014 #389

She had the right not to be ripped from her family and locked in a psychiatric ward pnwmom Jul 2014 #395

A judge ruled in a court of law. How much more due process do you want? kcr Jul 2014 #398

A judge rubber-stamped the DCF recommendation, which was written without pnwmom Jul 2014 #400

A judge rubber stamped the DCF rubber stamping of the hospital kidnapping. kcr Jul 2014 #401

The judge and the hospital had a longstanding, working relationship that led the judge pnwmom Jul 2014 #402

Does the working relationship involve cackling with glee from their elite ivory tower kcr Jul 2014 #404

I don't have the kind of vivid imagination you obviously do, so the answer is no. pnwmom Jul 2014 #414

I'm usually accused of the opposite when I don't believe conspiracy theories. n/t kcr Jul 2014 #415

You're the only one here alleging imaginary conspiracy theories. pnwmom Jul 2014 #420

If it walks like a conspiracy theory, etc kcr Jul 2014 #422

The judge returned Justina to continue to be "overmedicalized" by Tufts and her parents riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #407

Oh, so he didn't rubber stamp it then. Or did he rubber stamp it, then un-rubber stamp it? kcr Jul 2014 #409

I damn well hope the judge did that. As conditions changed. riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #412

It seems to me a rubber stamping careless judge wouldn't take the time to be flexible. kcr Jul 2014 #413

That better not be a typical pattern -- more than a year on a locked psychiatric ward pnwmom Jul 2014 #418

Why shouldnl't it be? The judgment to return children should be rushed? kcr Jul 2014 #421

When there's no immediate risk of serious harm, which there wasn't, any judgment pnwmom Jul 2014 #423

That's exactly what he did. At the end, he finally un-rubber stamped it. pnwmom Jul 2014 #416

Very complicated rubber stamping n/t kcr Jul 2014 #417

That's why they pay him the big bucks. n/t pnwmom Jul 2014 #419

I thought there were some strange things about this case ck4829 Jul 2014 #20

You're asking a lot of good questions. pnwmom Jul 2014 #25

Sorry, don't trust The Blaze to report this story without extreme bias...nt SidDithers Jul 2014 #24

Really. Anti-government whackos claim she was experimented on. kcr Jul 2014 #26

Rep. Jim McDermott, D-Washington, believes she was experimented on. pnwmom Jul 2014 #52

I don't think wards of the state should be expiremented on either kcr Jul 2014 #57

It is a fact that it is legal in the state of Massachusetts to enroll wards of the state pnwmom Jul 2014 #64

So, if there's a cancer drug that hasn't been approved yet kcr Jul 2014 #67

I would support an exception in that kind of situation. pnwmom Jul 2014 #72

If there is a problem with unnecessary treatments involving wards of state kcr Jul 2014 #74

Then take the word of Rep. Jim McDermott, Democrat and one of the most liberal pnwmom Jul 2014 #77

Liberal doesn't mean immune to being hoodwinked. kcr Jul 2014 #82

That's absolutely true. pnwmom Jul 2014 #93

How is that possible? The Harvard psychiatrists aren't the ones running and squawking to the media. kcr Jul 2014 #97

They believed the Harvard psychiatrists' diagnosis that she had a somatic disorder. pnwmom Jul 2014 #101

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me that's not true kcr Jul 2014 #103

You have no way of knowing. Correct. So don't you think that when there's a reasonable doubt, pnwmom Jul 2014 #107

If that were indeed the case, then yes. kcr Jul 2014 #110

Yes -- the parents were rude to the social workers. And so the social workers, apparently, pnwmom Jul 2014 #117

No, this wasn't rudeness to the social workers I'm talking about. kcr Jul 2014 #120

As reported by the social workers who felt insulted. pnwmom Jul 2014 #132

It wasn't social workers who reported this kcr Jul 2014 #138

Then don't read that. Watch the interview with Justina herself. pnwmom Jul 2014 #27

Publish or perish affects health professionals, too. So yeah, I can believe Boston Childrens McCamy Taylor Jul 2014 #29

Unfortunately, YarnAddict Jul 2014 #38

Not crying any tears for the insurance companies. McCamy Taylor Jul 2014 #106

I suspect their lawyers and insurance companies are already urging a quick settlement. n/t pnwmom Jul 2014 #141

DUers got outraged about this more than once while she was being held. ieoeja Jul 2014 #31

Some did -- but all you have to do is read this thread to find some who still pnwmom Jul 2014 #33

THAT part of the story is where I utterly disagree with the OP Trajan Jul 2014 #205

I'm not accusing liberals of hurting her. I'm asking why the MSM and the "liberal media" pnwmom Jul 2014 #270

I wish we could champion the cause of every child who isn't getting proper care... DesertDiamond Jul 2014 #35

This wasn't just a case of improper care. This was a case of the state vs. the parents. pnwmom Jul 2014 #39

The Blaze? Bluenorthwest Jul 2014 #36

If you can find another link to a video interview with Justina, pnwmom Jul 2014 #40

You do? I've heard plenty of interviews that were manipulative and selective. Bluenorthwest Jul 2014 #48

So there isn't one. Just as I thought. n/t pnwmom Jul 2014 #49

When this case has come up for discussion before YarnAddict Jul 2014 #37

Post removed Post removed Jul 2014 #41

Post a link proving that or admit that you're lying. n/t pnwmom Jul 2014 #46

Just check on google news and you will see pnwmom Jul 2014 #43

I see what you mean. YarnAddict Jul 2014 #47

Yes, exactly. The Boston Globe got the ball rolling, but most of the media quickly pnwmom Jul 2014 #50

I thought it was the Globe YarnAddict Jul 2014 #53

Right. The Herald is the right wing paper, the Globe's on the left. pnwmom Jul 2014 #56

Hopefully your family members YarnAddict Jul 2014 #58

Thanks. pnwmom Jul 2014 #62

As a Moderator of an 11,000 member group aimed at Freeing Justina fcefxer Jul 2014 #292

It is a shame that YarnAddict Jul 2014 #293

The liberal media is in on it, too? kcr Jul 2014 #305

No, the problem is that most of the MSM did not "get in on it." pnwmom Jul 2014 #427

Thank you very much for the info, fcefxer. pnwmom Jul 2014 #426

Something doesn't square about this story. Helen Borg Jul 2014 #42

Typical reaction. Harvard docs could never be wrong, pnwmom Jul 2014 #44

Mass DCF is the most incompent and corrupt governement organization you can imagine hack89 Jul 2014 #45

Of course it is. That's always the claim, no matter where these stories happen kcr Jul 2014 #55

No - some government agencies bad hack89 Jul 2014 #65

Oh, some agencies. Funny how it's always the ones featured in RW anti-government screeds. kcr Jul 2014 #69

More than 95 kids have died since 2001 while in the custody of DCF hack89 Jul 2014 #70

DCF is horribly underfunded kcr Jul 2014 #78

They are still woefully incompent regardless of the reasons - they are killing kids hack89 Jul 2014 #84

The kids are killed in foster care. kcr Jul 2014 #88

They die at a higher rate under DCF care hack89 Jul 2014 #99

More children die under DCF than by the hands of their own parents? kcr Jul 2014 #105

Exactly how many kids should die under DCF? merrily Jul 2014 #124

None. But claiming DCF kills more needs to be backed up. kcr Jul 2014 #125

This is what the Boston Globe has to say hack89 Jul 2014 #133

That's not the same thing. kcr Jul 2014 #153

Where in fuck do you get this anti- government shit from? hack89 Jul 2014 #157

Because it's anti-government folks who've taken up their case kcr Jul 2014 #161

So anyone who supports them has to be anti-government? hack89 Jul 2014 #208

No. kcr Jul 2014 #209

So instead of smearing me as RW hack89 Jul 2014 #211

Where did I smear you as RW? kcr Jul 2014 #217

Every time you try to deflect the conversation hack89 Jul 2014 #218

I didn't associate you with them. kcr Jul 2014 #220

"BUt the solution isn't to side with anti-government whackos" hack89 Jul 2014 #223

Well it isn't. Underfunding DCF is the wrong solution. kcr Jul 2014 #228

Ok nt hack89 Jul 2014 #240

Only because the rest of the media dropped the ball. pnwmom Jul 2014 #272

Remind me who has underfunded Mass DCF for decades. Government, right? merrily Jul 2014 #123

It isn't liberal progressives pushing for underfunding. n/t kcr Jul 2014 #128

LOL, a non sequitur, a straw man and a moved goalpost, all in one sentence. merrily Jul 2014 #134

A non sequitor? It's ultra right wingers pressing these claims kcr Jul 2014 #136

Sorry, that's non-sequitur. My bad. But, yes, you posted a non-sequitur. merrily Jul 2014 #144

I'm repeating it because it's true. kcr Jul 2014 #146

"Political forces were at play." I call bullshit. merrily Jul 2014 #152

What is bullshit about my claim? kcr Jul 2014 #154

Please see Reply 146. Thanks. merrily Jul 2014 #156

146 shows up for me as my own reply kcr Jul 2014 #165

Sorry. Charge the error up to boredom. I meant Reply 152. merrily Jul 2014 #171

Oh, the one where you continue to ignore kcr Jul 2014 #189

Please see Reply 152. Thanks. merrily Jul 2014 #191

The parents asked everyone they could think of to help them and a year later pnwmom Jul 2014 #317

So all the liberals who ignored it are in on it, too. kcr Jul 2014 #323

Yes. Good thing someone finally helped them. pnwmom Jul 2014 #324

Parents reacting strongly to losing their children. Because that normally doesn't happen? kcr Jul 2014 #333

They were WRONG. She has a metabolic disease and that's why they CHANGED pnwmom Jul 2014 #336

No, you're only believing the spin that returning her to her parents is evidence they were wrong. kcr Jul 2014 #337

Why not immediately admit their mistake? Good question. pnwmom Jul 2014 #338

Well, of course. Evil Elite Doctors have egos. That explains everything! n/t kcr Jul 2014 #348

Those doctors obviously did. They wouldn't even allow the Pelletiers pnwmom Jul 2014 #353

If only there was some way to break the RW's ironclad reign in Massachusetts. n/t Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #340

Where do I claim they have reign? kcr Jul 2014 #345

I was responding to your sub-thread that DCF in Massachusetts was under-funded. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #349

Now, this makes no sense. kcr Jul 2014 #351

You claim DCF is under-funded. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #359

Whatevs. I was responding to a poster that claimed they are corrupt kcr Jul 2014 #362

"But go ahead and point out where DCF is actually adequately funded, by all means." Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #365

Oh, believe me I know it. Right wingers think it's funded plenty. kcr Jul 2014 #367

RWers don't write the budget in Massachusetts. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #369

I know, it's like believing in Santa, isn't it? kcr Jul 2014 #371

I didn't say RWers don't exist and you know that. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #375

You say you're not saying it. Then you go on to repeat the claim. kcr Jul 2014 #377

Just because it can be cut doesn't mean it has been cut. If you're Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #382

But because it's a right wing source kcr Jul 2014 #390

Show us these alleged cuts. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #393

Show that right wing sources are to be trusted and never manipulate kcr Jul 2014 #396

This sub-thread is about your allegation of cuts to the DCF budget, not the video. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #405

Then why are we discussing the video? kcr Jul 2014 #408

In this sub-thread I have confined my comments to the MA budget. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #410

Oh, wait. My bad. You're right. kcr Jul 2014 #411

I'm not arguing if RW sources are valid and you know it. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #439

You'd think if they were so short of funds they wouldn't be wasting their money pnwmom Jul 2014 #425

PNW, please use "DoNotLink" for crank sites like The Blaze and Guardian LV. alp227 Jul 2014 #59

Thanks, apl227. I've just learned something new. pnwmom Jul 2014 #68

Excellent post. K&R. I hope when Justina and her family sue they win a huge award. Louisiana1976 Jul 2014 #66

They're all in individual and family therapy, so I doubt they're going to sue frazzled Jul 2014 #76

She got better?? She's now paralyzed from the waist down. No feeling below the waist riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #96

Read all the articles, not just the claptrap in right-wing rags frazzled Jul 2014 #145

I read that on ABC News... riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #179

Read all the Boston Globe articles. And those on Hartford Courant. pnwmom Jul 2014 #203

She didn't get better physically. She's happier because they finally let her go. pnwmom Jul 2014 #104

Good for the author's mea culpa but most here at DU were on the right side of this. n/t Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #71

As someone who has been posting on her behalf, I ran into plenty of DUers pnwmom Jul 2014 #75

I would hate think you're right about the resistance you've encountered but nowadays Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #85

Thanks, Nuclear Unicorn. You can see the range of reactions just to this OP alone. pnwmom Jul 2014 #87

And then there's the range of opinions in general on DU kcr Jul 2014 #89

I haven't noticed anyone siding with Hobby Lobby, but I'll take your word for it. n/t pnwmom Jul 2014 #92

Just ask the poster you responded to above n/t kcr Jul 2014 #95

Right, because we totally believe anti-government whackos when it's concerning a red state. kcr Jul 2014 #86

Rep. McDermott isn't an anti-government whacko, and neither is the Boston Globe, pnwmom Jul 2014 #90

You don't strike me as an anti-government whacko, either. kcr Jul 2014 #91

Based on what? Your unsupported belief that nothing in certain sources ever contains merrily Jul 2014 #113

No kcr Jul 2014 #115

Untrue. That was substantiated by video of her ice skating before she merrily Jul 2014 #118

It's local for me, too. kcr Jul 2014 #135

The claim of paralysis was made while she was still in DCF care and merrily Jul 2014 #139

Not contradicted. Not a surprise given she was in medical care kcr Jul 2014 #140

Really? I've seen doctors talk to media about patients in whom merrily Jul 2014 #148

Oh, the doctors don't deny it or admit they were wrong? kcr Jul 2014 #150

Still nothing to say? Please see Reply 146. Thanks. merrily Jul 2014 #155

Nothing to say? I already responded to that comment kcr Jul 2014 #159

Sorry. I meant, "Still nothing of substance to say? Please see Reply 152. merrily Jul 2014 #175

The parents are reporting that. Here's an ABC news report on it riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #162

Again, the parents. kcr Jul 2014 #178

For some reason, you think parents are guilty until proven innocent. pnwmom Jul 2014 #192

No, I don't. I've repeatedly said I don't know if they're guilty or not or if the hospital kcr Jul 2014 #194

They shouldn't have been able to take her away from her parents pnwmom Jul 2014 #200

Not true. The hospital reported their suspicion, DCF acted on it and a judge ruled in their favor. kcr Jul 2014 #206

There was no compelling evidence. The DCF usually has BC investigate its cases -- pnwmom Jul 2014 #212

What support do you have for the claim there was no compelling evidence? Aside from the parents? kcr Jul 2014 #216

When you advocate take away someone's freedom, it's YOUR job to provide the compelling evidence. pnwmom Jul 2014 #226

I don't advocate taking away freedom. kcr Jul 2014 #231

The extraordinary claim was that she had munchhausen by proxy syndrome, pnwmom Jul 2014 #239

Far less common means it isn't possible? kcr Jul 2014 #242

No. But "possible" isn't the standard when you advocate taking custody from parents, pnwmom Jul 2014 #244

And your contention that was the standard is? kcr Jul 2014 #245

The hospital IS the medical staff for the DCF. There was no functional pnwmom Jul 2014 #247

DCF only takes reports from that hospital? kcr Jul 2014 #250

DCF sends cases to BC with medical issues that they're concerned about. pnwmom Jul 2014 #271

The tinfoil is suggesting that they're colluding with a sinister purpose kcr Jul 2014 #307

I didn't say that. I said there's an inherent conflict of interest pnwmom Jul 2014 #312

Conflict of interest? kcr Jul 2014 #314

You obviously don't even understand what a "conflict of interest" is. pnwmom Jul 2014 #318

It is easily verified. And it wasn't done because she has mitochondrial disease per se. pnwmom Jul 2014 #440

Use your eyeballs. She was skating a few weeks before. She's in a wheelchair now. pnwmom Jul 2014 #163

Video of her in a wheelchair taken by the parents. kcr Jul 2014 #167

There are plenty of pictures of her in the hospital and in court in a wheelchair. pnwmom Jul 2014 #170

I'm sure they'd rather not drag her in there frogmarching her and forcing her to walk. kcr Jul 2014 #177

So she's faking it. And after more than a year, the Harvard docs couldn't figure that out. Right. pnwmom Jul 2014 #187

Actually, that might be exactly what they did. kcr Jul 2014 #195

Except even B.C. has never accused Justina of that. Only you. pnwmom Jul 2014 #199

I haven't accused anyone of anything. kcr Jul 2014 #210

Then why would they agree to let her go back to her parents and the docs at Tufts riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #204

Children returning to their parents doesn't mean it was determined there was no case. kcr Jul 2014 #213

Really? Now your slip is really showing. riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #225

The claim that it's about dueling medical teams is spin kcr Jul 2014 #230

It's not spin. It's fact. pnwmom Jul 2014 #234

The parents didn't agree with the new diagnosis kcr Jul 2014 #237

They had an extremely sick daughter -- you can die from vomiting, by the way -- pnwmom Jul 2014 #241

I'm not arguing she wasn't sick kcr Jul 2014 #243

Wrong. They went to Tufts not because of the mito doctor, pnwmom Jul 2014 #246

Maybe, but I would find it hard to believe that the mito doctors weren't consulted kcr Jul 2014 #248

They finally were, months later. And eventually, after a year, the judge gave her care pnwmom Jul 2014 #249

The specialists are right there, in that hospital, but weren't consulted for months? kcr Jul 2014 #251

The GI specialist who was right there wasn't allowed to consult in her care. pnwmom Jul 2014 #253

Is that another contention from the parents? kcr Jul 2014 #254

It's not hard to believe at all, given the document that they wanted the Pelletiers to sign. pnwmom Jul 2014 #428

YES! I hope they do!! riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #238

What are... onyourleft Jul 2014 #73

The ones with Harvard degrees who get to make decisions about patients pnwmom Jul 2014 #202

Trust me: When social workers want your rights taken away, they can get them taken away. WinkyDink Jul 2014 #83

Not always. I was present when a judge refused to remove merrily Jul 2014 #131

The part I find troubling: merrily Jul 2014 #94

I am willing to consider the possibility that their egos were so large pnwmom Jul 2014 #111

Also an echo of common medical practice, not to mention common sense. merrily Jul 2014 #121

"No one has to tell Harvard docs the ABC's of medical practice." pnwmom Jul 2014 #129

No, they'd be wasting their breath. They knew very well merrily Jul 2014 #164

Thank you, merrily. pnwmom Jul 2014 #221

Correct: The Boston Globe is NOT right wing. merrily Jul 2014 #258

K&R. Crunchy Frog Jul 2014 #108

Tufts Boston Medical Ctr. originally filed allegations of neglect countryjake Jul 2014 #126

Not her doctor and not Tufts itself -- some member of the staff. pnwmom Jul 2014 #147

So her CT pediatrician wasn't actually her original doctor, either? countryjake Jul 2014 #196

Justina had what some psychiatrists at BC considered extreme procedures pnwmom Jul 2014 #198

If you have a sick child with an undiagnosed disease, of course you're going to "doctor-shop". hedgehog Jul 2014 #261

For comparison: hedgehog Jul 2014 #262

Thanks for this. Parents probably get swept up in horrible situations pnwmom Jul 2014 #266

Yes. Especially when it's a rare disease. Her CT doctor referred her pnwmom Jul 2014 #265

Very interesting and vitally important. I am looking forward to reading more, thank you. n/t Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #142

I saw this story on Dr. Phil libodem Jul 2014 #168

I'd like to see that. I'll have to see if it's online. n/t pnwmom Jul 2014 #190

K&R Puzzledtraveller Jul 2014 #172

KNR Lucinda Jul 2014 #214

I've watched this discussion with disgust. Savannahmann Jul 2014 #263

Thank you for your righteous indignation. pnwmom Jul 2014 #264

"HYPE? The girl is in a wheelchair." Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #274

It isn't only because the sources are right wing. kcr Jul 2014 #301

If it wasn't overreach, it was serious malfeasance. Savannahmann Jul 2014 #319

So, we shouldn't be snowed by those elite Harvard doctors kcr Jul 2014 #321

My point was there was no evidence. Savannahmann Jul 2014 #327

Well, isn't that a coincidence. That's my point, too. kcr Jul 2014 #329

Since when is providing medical care for your child abuse? Savannahmann Jul 2014 #330

Since people have been attempting to seek medical care unnecessarily kcr Jul 2014 #332

I imagine it's difficult to walk across the room with blinders like that on. Savannahmann Jul 2014 #342

Not at all. Children need protection and sometimes that means from their parents. kcr Jul 2014 #343

It doesn't apply in this case. Savannahmann Jul 2014 #355

I'm just going to stand over here by you. Righteous rant. Thanks for this nt riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #387

"But claiming the parents are unfit for following medical advice is the question here" kcr Jul 2014 #399

Really? Savannahmann Jul 2014 #424

That is all they were ever accused of doing and you know it. The documents are out there now pnwmom Jul 2014 #432

+ a million. Thanks for this. pnwmom Jul 2014 #431

Not at all. Savannahmann Jul 2014 #441

In this case a child needed protection from the psychiatrists at BC and the state of MA. pnwmom Jul 2014 #430

The parents were carefully following the advice of top metabolic and GI specialists, pnwmom Jul 2014 #429

No, we shouldn't. We shouldn't let the Harvard name deprive us of all common sense. pnwmom Jul 2014 #433

^^^^THIS^^^^ A thousand times THIS. n/t cherokeeprogressive Jul 2014 #388

Previously, the one-sided nature of the story was problematic Orrex Jul 2014 #275

Have you read the multiple articles that have been published pnwmom Jul 2014 #281

A few questions, though I must defer to your greater familiarity: Orrex Jul 2014 #283

The Boston Globe did its own very thorough, balanced, investigation. pnwmom Jul 2014 #286

Post removed Post removed Jul 2014 #290

Welcome, FreeJustina. pnwmom Jul 2014 #291

Well done, pnwmom. K&R friendly_iconoclast Jul 2014 #294

Thanks! pnwmom Jul 2014 #295

FWIW, I'm also disgusted by some of the posts in response to the OP friendly_iconoclast Jul 2014 #296

The worst part, to me, pnwmom Jul 2014 #297

Here's a link I recently came across listing experts on the frontier of this emerging new science. proverbialwisdom Jul 2014 #298

It is a mistake that DCF made. There were two groups of physicians: pnwmom Jul 2014 #299

Harvard has people on both sides of this, as shown, so your Harvard-bashing is too indiscriminate. proverbialwisdom Jul 2014 #300

The Harvard metabolic specialists didn't speak up for 16 months. pnwmom Jul 2014 #304

Related to this post although not specifically to the thread. proverbialwisdom Jul 2014 #320

It's a hideous part of history: American kids used for government experiments. Octafish Jul 2014 #352

You're taking heat for this thread. Just want to thank you for LittleBlue Jul 2014 #391

Thanks, LittleBlue. Unfortunately, there are more Justina's out there. pnwmom Jul 2014 #397