General Discussion

OriginalGeek

(12,132 posts)

29. You're both right

Thu Apr 5, 2012, 03:48 PM

Apr 2012

Aerows is right - we absolutely must stand together to even get started wiping out privilege and racism and sexism and classism and all the other isms.
Redqueen is right in that we absolutely must point it out when someone isn't getting it.

I am a straight, white male who was raised in a fundamentalist, christian home. I have privileges and bias built into me I don't even know about.

I didn't ask for them but I got them.
I don't deserve them but I got them.
I don't know I have some of them and I bet I've used them even if it just means someone else treated me better than one of you because I am all these things.

I need help people. I WANT to be right. I WANT to do the right thing. I WANT to behave correctly but I have had people all my life treat me like a white, straight male. I am not ashamed that I'm white or straight or male. I couldn't help any of those things. But I WANT to be ashamed if and when I ever use any of those things to get a leg up over someone else just because I am those things. I know I don't always recognize so I hope people like you folks will always be there to keep pointing it out.

I am a liberal Democrat because I do not believe most modern Republicans even have the decency to admit there might be a problem.

Anyone unwilling to face ALL the truths, even ugly ones, is doing life wrong.

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Yes, white men are being oppressed. [View all] Zalatix Apr 2012 OP

We are NOT being oppressed equaly, lets give this one up, In EVERY society where theres a ruling... uponit7771 Apr 2012 #1

Okay then Aerows Apr 2012 #2

yes ..it would be ............progresss....... :-) uponit7771 Apr 2012 #3

I know there are disparities Aerows Apr 2012 #10

+1. And that's exactly what the modern "rights" discourse encourages us to do. Not to mention HiPointDem Apr 2012 #45

The first move in standing together is not EFerrari Apr 2012 #4

Nor is it Aerows Apr 2012 #7

Actually, I disagree. EFerrari Apr 2012 #12

So if there is sexism Aerows Apr 2012 #14

The first sentence of your post is straight out of your imagination EFerrari Apr 2012 #21

It's not inaccurate at all Aerows Apr 2012 #23

Entirely inaccurate. EFerrari Apr 2012 #28

Alrighty then Aerows Apr 2012 #33

Please do not exit... your points are logical. Zalatix Apr 2012 #36

Nope, there is nothing "logical" in arguing that people shouldn't push back EFerrari Apr 2012 #88

Racism is like a termite infestation. Nobody is arguing that the termites are not a problem. Zalatix Apr 2012 #154

I said I wasn't going to even look in this thread, but I did Aerows Apr 2012 #175

No, ProSense did not accuse you of racism, or being a racist. redqueen Apr 2012 #178

Don't go! You are 100% correct! nt stevenleser Apr 2012 #37

Don't go - you are in the right. nt hack89 Apr 2012 #42

I agree with your points REP Apr 2012 #51

+1000. nt. polly7 Apr 2012 #201

Discrimination Pie tastes no better in anyone's mouth Aerows Apr 2012 #225

Dont go any where m8 Dokkie Apr 2012 #170

That is ProSense Apr 2012 #38

#175 goes for you, too ProSense n/t Aerows Apr 2012 #176

+1 to prosense, ignoring the "Southern Strategy" emboldens these bastards to enact anti voter uponit7771 Apr 2012 #183

Hell yes Aerows Apr 2012 #224

After the fact, thank you for acknowledging this Aerows Apr 2012 #222

"The first step toward standing together is not telling other people to shut up" Aerows Apr 2012 #221

We did. redqueen Apr 2012 #5

I'm a woman Aerows Apr 2012 #6

You're both right OriginalGeek Apr 2012 #29

so long as the focus is primarily on the views of individuals, so long as the discourse of HiPointDem Apr 2012 #47

I was instructed to your post for some reason Number23 Apr 2012 #189

Please learn history: MLK Jr. was assassinated during his Poor People's Campaign Zalatix Apr 2012 #206

After my exchange with you downthread Number23 Apr 2012 #210

After my exchange with you downthread Zalatix Apr 2012 #212

You have nothing to say. You have no data. No facts. No information Number23 Apr 2012 #213

Whoops, I bothered responding to you. Now whatcha gonna do? Zalatix Apr 2012 #214

Nothing I have said in ANY way refutes what you've typed Number23 Apr 2012 #215

"Nothing I have said in ANY way refutes what you've typed" <-- LOL!!! Zalatix Apr 2012 #217

Oh my Aerows Apr 2012 #223

Three weeks after the post was posted, and you still couldn't bother to read it? Number23 Apr 2012 #226

Well this came out of left field Aerows Apr 2012 #227

I don't care about your values Number23 Apr 2012 #228

Values Aerows Apr 2012 #229

Oh, and by the way? Aerows Apr 2012 #230

You need to take another three weeks off Number23 May 2012 #231

Glad you decided to get out into the fresh air Aerows May 2012 #232

Oh, and Gambit? Aerows May 2012 #233

And you may wish to evaluate leaping into a thread THREE WEEKS after it was started Number23 May 2012 #234

Yep, I'd agree Aerows May 2012 #235

Finally, something from you that makes sense. Number23 May 2012 #236

That's a great point. Brooklyn Dame Apr 2012 #25

Battle and cripple the 1% and the other issues will resolve themselves. Zalatix Apr 2012 #58

Thank you. +100,000! Zalatix Apr 2012 #9

It's not ProSense Apr 2012 #15

I'm not going to sit here and say that racism isn't a problem Aerows Apr 2012 #18

That's not ProSense Apr 2012 #24

Do you think the wealthy oligarchs Aerows Apr 2012 #27

Who ProSense Apr 2012 #32

I need to remind you of a lesson: the dividing up of Africa Zalatix Apr 2012 #60

Good grief ProSense Apr 2012 #67

No we don't live in Africa - but the politics of division is now worldwide. Zalatix Apr 2012 #153

The 99%ers are pretty diverse. The %ers divide us for their own purposes. libinnyandia Apr 2012 #8

Oh, no they're not. Where on earth did you get that idea? cali Apr 2012 #208

The 1%ers are not diverse but the rest of us are. White, black, Hispanic, men and women. libinnyandia Apr 2012 #218

Yep. Exactly. Taverner Apr 2012 #179

I'm going to rec this Autumn Apr 2012 #11

Sure ProSense Apr 2012 #13

See Post #2 Zalatix Apr 2012 #16

I saw it. n/t ProSense Apr 2012 #17

"much of this inequality and oppression is being driven by white men" Aerows Apr 2012 #19

That still ProSense Apr 2012 #30

No, that's YOUR POINT. Not THE point. SomethingFishy Apr 2012 #39

What a ProSense Apr 2012 #43

Holy shit you spend too much time on the internet... SomethingFishy Apr 2012 #46

Jeepers, we're fighting over ridiculous irrelevancies. Zalatix Apr 2012 #61

Your comment ProSense Apr 2012 #66

Percent of families owning slaves on the eve of the Civil War: HiPointDem Apr 2012 #99

Wow ProSense Apr 2012 #101

It's an ethnicity, one which historically hasn't always been coextensive with "white". FYI. HiPointDem Apr 2012 #102

I know, ProSense Apr 2012 #105

The content was that only 8% of American families owned slaves on the eve of the Civil War. HiPointDem Apr 2012 #106

Well, ProSense Apr 2012 #112

a white person was nearly as likely to die in the war to end slavery, as bart95 Apr 2012 #108

Oh my ProSense Apr 2012 #110

i will admit, however, that my ancestors were guilty bart95 Apr 2012 #114

'too much time on the internet...' bart95 Apr 2012 #116

What in the world...???... Number23 Apr 2012 #118

I agree. And this reality noiretextatique Apr 2012 #205

Run as fast as you can from this OP. Number23 Apr 2012 #209

LOL noiretextatique Apr 2012 #219

They also mostly vote republican redqueen Apr 2012 #22

It's a societal problem Aerows Apr 2012 #26

Look ProSense Apr 2012 #35

'It'd be nice if our fellow oppressed citizens would help out with that' bart95 Apr 2012 #109

"It's too bad we can't elect more progressive Dems." redqueen Apr 2012 #111

White men Dokkie Apr 2012 #171

Not only is that a great post Union Scribe Apr 2012 #20

Read your Marx and realize the truth hifiguy Apr 2012 #31

The religious "wars" have always been underlaid with economics. It's just that most HiPointDem Apr 2012 #103

Yeah, except Marx invented the proletariat, lumpenproletariat and petit bourgeoisie. joshcryer Apr 2012 #143

I don't agree with equality of the distress, but I do agree Lionessa Apr 2012 #34

This is part of what I was trying to say and encourage discussion about with this OP: stevenleser Apr 2012 #40

You're absolutely right, and we can see how effective it is right here in the replies. Egalitarian Thug Apr 2012 #41

Ah yes, ProSense Apr 2012 #44

Except the poster didn't say any of that. And this refusal to address the kind of points he makes HiPointDem Apr 2012 #48

What? ProSense Apr 2012 #49

Yes, I read his post, as well as your direct quote and your interpretation of its meaning. HiPointDem Apr 2012 #50

Well, ProSense Apr 2012 #55

Yes, people are free to interpret words in their "own way". People are also free to point out that HiPointDem Apr 2012 #63

Actually ProSense Apr 2012 #83

Demographically speaking, everyone is a victim of their circumstances. Zalatix Apr 2012 #54

You keep ProSense Apr 2012 #56

Because white men ARE separate from the Plutocracy!!! Zalatix Apr 2012 #57

Hmmm? ProSense Apr 2012 #62

"when income inequality wasn't as bad as it is now, say 40 years ago, who were the oppressors?" HiPointDem Apr 2012 #64

I know ProSense Apr 2012 #65

Do you know that? They owned slaves, eh? And was that the end of it? HiPointDem Apr 2012 #69

Wow, ProSense Apr 2012 #70

As you ascribed your "own interpretation" to the previous poster's words, so you've ascribed your HiPointDem Apr 2012 #71

Oh, I ProSense Apr 2012 #73

You're saying that white men and the plutocracy are coextensive categories? If so, that's so HiPointDem Apr 2012 #74

Oh, by ProSense Apr 2012 #81

So you *are* saying that "plutocracy" and "white males" are the same thing, then? I wasn't HiPointDem Apr 2012 #84

I have no earthly idea how you managed to get that out of what I wrote. Egalitarian Thug Apr 2012 #59

Well, ProSense Apr 2012 #68

Yes, but to be clear, they are not evil because they are white and/or male. Egalitarian Thug Apr 2012 #76

You know ProSense Apr 2012 #79

I'm sorry you feel that way. It is not my intention to dismiss or trivialize Egalitarian Thug Apr 2012 #86

AMEN! Dont call me Shirley Apr 2012 #52

Huge K&R abelenkpe Apr 2012 #53

I take your point but wickerwoman Apr 2012 #72

I'd argue that so long as the problem of economic justice isn't addressed or solved, no individual HiPointDem Apr 2012 #77

There again ProSense Apr 2012 #80

Where do I say that all other oppression is irrelevant? Where do I say that economic justice HiPointDem Apr 2012 #82

Oh, my bad ProSense Apr 2012 #85

Funny how we're fighting the battle of birth control again, eh? Why do you think that is? HiPointDem Apr 2012 #87

It's the ProSense Apr 2012 #90

LOL. Sure, keep telling yourself that. HiPointDem Apr 2012 #96

And economic justice won't be addressed or solved wickerwoman Apr 2012 #94

No one has asked anyone to give up their interests and needs. No one has ruled out "coalition" HiPointDem Apr 2012 #97

Are we reading the same website? wickerwoman Apr 2012 #181

Granted, it's going to take a lot of education and waking people up. Zalatix Apr 2012 #157

Your point is well-founded. Zalatix Apr 2012 #158

Yes, they are. But not because they are white or because they are male eridani Apr 2012 #75

I don't see white gays, white atheist, white whatever Obamacare Apr 2012 #78

No? HiPointDem Apr 2012 #89

Wow, some cops were actually charged with a crime for such an act. redqueen Apr 2012 #91

I suspect ProSense Apr 2012 #92

The poster didn't say that there is racial profiling and that blacks are a disproportionate % HiPointDem Apr 2012 #95

You're ProSense Apr 2012 #100

Your colors are being revealed HiPoint. joshcryer Apr 2012 #129

What colors are those? Unveil the veiled accusation. HiPointDem Apr 2012 #138

The true ones? joshcryer Apr 2012 #141

You made a veiled accusation. If you're not prepared to state it explicitly, why are you making it? HiPointDem Apr 2012 #142

How more explicit can I frame "true colors"? joshcryer Apr 2012 #144

The poster said: HiPointDem Apr 2012 #146

The poster implied that, absolutely. joshcryer Apr 2012 #148

Unlike yourself, I don't make broad assumptions about what people "mean" from one statement. HiPointDem Apr 2012 #149

It's basic linguistics, you interpret the meaning of what is said. Literalism... joshcryer Apr 2012 #187

Absolutely right loyalsister Apr 2012 #98

Love how the flaming amongst each other in this thread proves the exact point of your post. tjwash Apr 2012 #93

Pointing out disparities is NOT us being together. There are some progressive that don't think uponit7771 Apr 2012 #104

+1, "hard to convince these people to fight said disparities if they don't think they exist" joshcryer Apr 2012 #140

and it forces people to compete to 'out-victim' each other bart95 Apr 2012 #107

Yes, ProSense Apr 2012 #113

no, I think the OP is born out of exasperation of the endless blame bart95 Apr 2012 #115

So ProSense Apr 2012 #117

that post would be considered racist bart95 Apr 2012 #119

Don't ProSense Apr 2012 #120

what's absurd about it? being called out? nt bart95 Apr 2012 #121

Suggestion ProSense Apr 2012 #123

why? I already made my point bart95 Apr 2012 #124

Actually, ProSense Apr 2012 #125

'You made an utterly absurd claim' bart95 Apr 2012 #127

Here ProSense Apr 2012 #131

you interpreted the (bad thing) differently than I intended bart95 Apr 2012 #132

Well ProSense Apr 2012 #134

sorry pup bart95 Apr 2012 #136

Clearly ProSense Apr 2012 #137

And I'm not even a white male. Surprise. Zalatix Apr 2012 #151

all i really know bart95 Apr 2012 #166

How is electing the first African American President Obamacare Apr 2012 #182

that's how it was sold bart95 Apr 2012 #185

You should acknowledge why it's happening, though. joshcryer Apr 2012 #139

and employ posters to use the very tactic here RetroLounge Apr 2012 #165

Exactly right. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #177

Oh, God. This thread... I weep for this web site. Or I would if I felt it had any hope at all. Number23 Apr 2012 #122

The rec's tell me all I needed to know. joshcryer Apr 2012 #128

+ 1 La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2012 #130

It's simple really. ProSense Apr 2012 #133

Exactly. joshcryer Apr 2012 #135

Nailed it ProSense Apr 2012 #145

What do you think about what President Obama said? Zalatix Apr 2012 #164

You know ProSense Apr 2012 #168

Your argument is illogical Zalatix Apr 2012 #172

Nonsense ProSense Apr 2012 #174

No, that's NOT what I said Zalatix Apr 2012 #200

these are all things that are routinely SwampG8r Apr 2012 #191

I weep for the fact that you can't see how the 1% is dividing us against each other. Zalatix Apr 2012 #150

Yes, it was the 1% that burned crosses in people's yards Number23 Apr 2012 #152

Post #47 said it right about you. Your staunch ignorance is exactly why the 1% prevails. Zalatix Apr 2012 #155

When you can prove it was the elite that inflicted Hell on black people's lives Number23 Apr 2012 #156

That's easy. Zalatix Apr 2012 #159

So the only people that perpetuated atrocities during the time of slavery Number23 Apr 2012 #188

i usually am in light disagreement with you SwampG8r Apr 2012 #192

"i can say this if you have seen it you cant unsee it" Number23 Apr 2012 #194

i came back by here SwampG8r Apr 2012 #220

I don't know where you got your education from Zalatix Apr 2012 #195

So I can infer that this weak, pointless, insignificant little insult is you Number23 Apr 2012 #196

Wait, you can dish out the insults but you can't take it? Zalatix Apr 2012 #197

You have not had one single "argument" to dispute Number23 Apr 2012 #198

Your wild eyed rants and raves are not "arguments", hence there is no dispute. Zalatix Apr 2012 #199

Oh God. Number23 Apr 2012 #203

Yes, run away with your tail between your legs. And take your laughable arguments with you. Zalatix Apr 2012 #204

Holy Hell... Number23 Apr 2012 #207

LOL I thought you said I wasn't worth another millisecond of your time. Zalatix Apr 2012 #211

President Obama said it even better than I did. So go ahead and hate on him, too. Zalatix Apr 2012 #162

Nonsense. n/t ProSense Apr 2012 #169

Post #47 says nothing about the poster you're talking to and nothing about ignorance. HiPointDem Apr 2012 #160

I'm sorry, I meant post #147. I forgot the "1" Zalatix Apr 2012 #161

Divide and conquer. joshcryer Apr 2012 #126

this whole thread is a prime example of how the dividing works. provis99 Apr 2012 #147

I'll let my avatar speak for me lunatica Apr 2012 #163

Poor whites still act racist Mosaic Apr 2012 #167

Poor, poor men who now have to be something more than white to be... polichick Apr 2012 #173

K&R One of the most interesting threads Waiting For Everyman Apr 2012 #180

Economic Justice IS the biggest Social Issue. bvar22 Apr 2012 #184

It's called divide and conquer...knr joeybee12 Apr 2012 #186

WHITE MEN brush stroke responses here are very broad. Zax2me Apr 2012 #190

Indeed, MLK Jr. did not say Zalatix Apr 2012 #193

Fucking A Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2012 #202

the op hit the nail 4 t 4 Apr 2012 #216