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Hippo_Tron

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144. As I noted below, Paul Wellstone ran serious campaigns, Kucinich not so much...

Wed Jul 9, 2014, 10:05 PM

Jul 2014

Wellstone was a great liberal voice once he got to the Senate. But the greatest accomplishment of his career, IMO, was not in the Senate but how he got there. Wellstone demonstrated that with if the public wants change badly enough, you can run a very successful campaign with much less money than your opponent if you have good organization and use your limited resources wisely.

He goes into this in great details in The Conscience of a Liberal. Wellstone absolutely hated the idea of advertising on television. But when the time came, the consultants asked him simply "are you in this to win or not"? When he told them yes, they explained to him that if he was going to have any chance at all he absolutely had to go on television, there was no way around it. He didn't need to kiss up to Wall Street and raise a gazillion dollars to flood the airwaves, but he had to have some television advertising to get his message out. So he raised enough money to get the infamous "Fast Paul" and "Looking for Rudy" ads on television, the latter only aired one time. Without question, those ads made the crucial difference in his 1990 campaign.

Wellstone, even with the odds overwhelmingly against him, was serious about winning. Had he run for President, I don't think it would've been any different. No matter what the odds, he would've seriously pursued a strategy to get him to the White House. And if he hadn't gotten there (odds are he wouldn't have), the country would certainly still have been better off for him having run.

Kucinich, IMO, never took the prospect of winning seriously. And that's a problem for me. Going into a campaign saying "I'm just here to enhance the debate" is how you ensure that nobody takes you seriously. Going into it saying "I know the odds are overwhelmingly against me, but I have a strategy to win and I'm going to execute that strategy to the best of my ability and if I fail at the very least I enhanced the debate" is how you get taken seriously.

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If Dennis Kucinich had won the Democratic nomination in 2008, would he have beaten John McCain? [View all] onehandle Jul 2014 OP

is this an attempt to smear President Obama? VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #1

Looks like an attack on lefties to me. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #4

so who gets to decide WHO is a Liberal? You? VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #5

Gosh, no, it must be YOU. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #7

Well I don't try to decide who among those who commit to voting for the winner of the Democratic VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #12

I was speaking of politicians, not voters. nt Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #18

well then that is just silly of you.... VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #23

Overall performance is how I judge them too. nt Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #24

really now....then you accept the "on the issues" website? VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #28

Never been to that website. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #32

no its all there for you to see... VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #38

Is it? Many of the categories seem to have stopped updating in 2008. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #45

and are there things there since 2008? VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #47

'Overall scores' aren't exactly 'overall' if they exclude high profile issues. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #52

How much do you think your Pet Issue will move the peg on all THAT evidence... VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #98

Trade policy and military intervention are "pet issues"? Ken Burch Jul 2014 #121

and those are there VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #135

And on both, she's a Republican Ken Burch Jul 2014 #139

Voting for the IWR, and refusing to apologize for that for over a decade Ken Burch Jul 2014 #115

Kucinich supporters DID vote for the winners of the Democratic primaries in 2004 and 2008 Ken Burch Jul 2014 #114

those polls don't count though treestar Jul 2014 #20

Actually, he does get to choose who is 'Liberal' Trajan Jul 2014 #40

Oh now snark is against the rules? VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #41

I've got my 'big boy pants on'. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #49

Gonna have to agree with you there. Separation Jul 2014 #95

Don't you think DK would have lost? treestar Jul 2014 #15

In 2008? Sure. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #21

You are not a very good judge of the American voting public it seems... VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #25

I'm not sure you read all that carefully. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #27

okay....I get it now... VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #42

Or on future Fox News correspondents Freddie Stubbs Jul 2014 #137

Absolutely no Republican was going to win in 2008 yeoman6987 Jul 2014 #103

You cannot be serious......You think Joe Lieberman was electable? VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #104

Oh Brother....not sure what election you were watching but yeoman6987 Jul 2014 #105

Not talking about "electoral votes" are we? VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #107

Well Romney running again in 2016 yeoman6987 Jul 2014 #109

Nobody was attacking Obama in this thread...the OP is a case of "pro-Obama" baiting of left-Dems. Ken Burch Jul 2014 #141

There was Republican fatigue in 1988 too but Dukakis still managed to blow a 20 point lead Hippo_Tron Jul 2014 #145

No...it's another "Dennis Kucinich and progressives are silly" thread. Ken Burch Jul 2014 #120

In 2008? No. In 2048, maybe. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #2

Kucinich will look like a right wing radical come 2048 MohRokTah Jul 2014 #100

Dennis will be 102 in'48. Ken Burch Jul 2014 #117

Armchair psychics with hindsight LWolf Jul 2014 #3

And risk having Sara Palin for President? VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #6

No, LWolf Jul 2014 #9

You seem to forget that McCain didn't lose in a complete landslide my friend... VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #11

I haven't forgotten anything, LWolf Jul 2014 #13

apparently you have....if you think Kucinich could have beat John McCain.... VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #14

You apparently have a serious LWolf Jul 2014 #17

Maybe along with political judgement.....communication is also not a strong suit... VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #29

Oh, I think the communication is fine. LWolf Jul 2014 #31

and that is what most bad communicators think... VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #39

McGovern would have been a great President too treestar Jul 2014 #16

If I'd been old enough LWolf Jul 2014 #22

this is the point "to you" ...... VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #33

I'm a citizen and a voter, LWolf Jul 2014 #34

and you are only ONE citizen and voter.....Since EW IS a Democrat and a potential candidate herself. VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #36

Yes, I'm only one, LWolf Jul 2014 #37

and MOST Americans are not Like us on DU! VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #44

This must be really frustrating for you. LWolf Jul 2014 #54

frustrating for me????? You are the one that just penned ^^^^ that trope.... VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #56

Nope. LWolf Jul 2014 #62

No actually I am uncovering WHO the Democrats are..... VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #71

Which has nothing to do with Dennis Kucinich being the '04 nominee, does it? LWolf Jul 2014 #92

IF VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #93

Again... LWolf Jul 2014 #131

One of the silliest threads I have seen recently. Thanks for the laugh!! madinmaryland Jul 2014 #8

When I read some of Kucinich's proposals in early 2003 BootinUp Jul 2014 #10

I think Lee Mercer Jr could have beaten Grandpa "Get off my lawn" McCain. HooptieWagon Jul 2014 #19

So Obama won by attrition? VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #48

No. GOP had a weak field of candidates, in which McCain won the nom. HooptieWagon Jul 2014 #94

you cannot seriously believe this and call yourself a Democrat.......for shame VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #97

Didn't I say Obama ran the best primary campaign by far? HooptieWagon Jul 2014 #102

I wish to modify my answer BootinUp Jul 2014 #26

In a fair match up with no voter suppression and not a bit of cheating by the GOP MohRokTah Jul 2014 #101

Depends on the influence of his outside help... conservaphobe Jul 2014 #30

Moot. There's no way in 2008 he would have won. nt babylonsister Jul 2014 #35

no, and McCain would have picked Lindsey Graham to be VP JI7 Jul 2014 #43

If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle NightWatcher Jul 2014 #46

apparently its anti Obama....saying just any Democrat could have beaten McCain VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #50

It's a pro-Hillary thread. I think. LWolf Jul 2014 #63

Kucinich would have been steamrolled. Ikonoklast Jul 2014 #51

Exactly, he got 4 bills passed in his career... Historic NY Jul 2014 #53

I'm talking about his support for redlining for his ward when he was a city councilman. Ikonoklast Jul 2014 #65

Please, be quiet. Kuchnuts don't WANT to know about all that. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #106

His Fox News gig basically confirmed everything I already suspected Hippo_Tron Jul 2014 #152

what's Hillary's record in the Senate? frylock Jul 2014 #88

Hard to say. If Grampy had made the blunder of picking Sarah Palin Warpy Jul 2014 #55

Yes. Next question? flvegan Jul 2014 #57

I don't know. But, it would be nice to have found out. Perhaps we'll get a chance with Bernie. Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2014 #58

Barney the Purple dinosaur could have beaten McCain/Palin. nt bemildred Jul 2014 #59

so you ARE saying Obama won by attrition? VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #64

This is personal for you, isn't it? nt bemildred Jul 2014 #67

and that makes a difference how? VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #68

It's not for me. bemildred Jul 2014 #70

I wasn't polling people....I was convincing them to vote for the Democrat...and asking if they VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #72

No, I think not. nt bemildred Jul 2014 #74

and yet here you still are.... VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #75

The collapse of Lehman Brothers pretty much handed Obama the election in 2008 Hippo_Tron Jul 2014 #143

You people are sincerely delusional! VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #146

Where did I dispute that his ground game was seriously impressive? Hippo_Tron Jul 2014 #147

When you insinuated that ANYONE could have beaten the Republicans.... VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #149

Where did I insinuate that anyone could've beaten the Republicans? Hippo_Tron Jul 2014 #151

Whoever got the nomination would have beaten McCain. rug Jul 2014 #60

Oh Obama just walked in? VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #66

Did I say that? Why don't you stick to what I typed: whoever got the nomination would have won. rug Jul 2014 #76

then how pray tell....did McCain/Palin get so many votes....by your description VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #78

Obama won by ten million vote. And? rug Jul 2014 #80

and that's what percentage? VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #81

That's 7+%. rug Jul 2014 #82

still not a cakewalk so....yeah still deluded. VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #83

Obviously, your understanding of electoral politics is limited to Obama's facebook page. rug Jul 2014 #84

a healthy margin "your words" is not the same as "any Democrat could win" is it? VanillaRhapsody Jul 2014 #85

The margin was your inane question. My post was that anyone with the nomination would win after Bush rug Jul 2014 #86

Whoever? Reter Jul 2014 #113

Could Kucinich have ever gotten the nomination, then? hughee99 Jul 2014 #73

No. He was marginalized from the get-go. rug Jul 2014 #77

He certainly could've tried harder Hippo_Tron Jul 2014 #148

I can agree to a point treestar Jul 2014 #89

Yeah, it was a bad choice that turned out to be worse. rug Jul 2014 #90

that one never fails to get me treestar Jul 2014 #134

The collapse of Lehman Brothers was the main factor Hippo_Tron Jul 2014 #150

Don't know, don't care. n/t winter is coming Jul 2014 #61

LOL True Blue Door Jul 2014 #69

Ass handed to him is not a choice Generic Brad Jul 2014 #79

He would have won in 2008. He would have likely lost in 2012. JVS Jul 2014 #87

Hell no. If there was no excitement for Kooch in his own party.... Tarheel_Dem Jul 2014 #91

but he won a DU poll he also couldn't even win the congressional seat JI7 Jul 2014 #119

Thank you. His approval in his own home state was somewhere in the 20's. Tarheel_Dem Jul 2014 #123

I love Dennis, but no way he wins the presidency, IMO. NT Adrahil Jul 2014 #96

Hell to the fuck NO! MohRokTah Jul 2014 #99

In 2001-2002 - Congressman Kucinich was a beacon of hope for many of us myrna minx Jul 2014 #108

In 2001, though, he was solidly anti-abortion frazzled Jul 2014 #111

Yes - and I wholly disagreed with him about that, just as I disagreed myrna minx Jul 2014 #116

How soon... is right G_j Jul 2014 #124

Well, I guess my response has to be frazzled Jul 2014 #133

As I noted below, Paul Wellstone ran serious campaigns, Kucinich not so much... Hippo_Tron Jul 2014 #144

I suppose there would have been no drone attacks, perhaps a push for single payer health care, G_j Jul 2014 #110

I voted yes, just because you think the idea was silly. Ken Burch Jul 2014 #112

Thank you. +1. Me too. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #138

No, only anointed protectors of the status quo are allowed to win whatchamacallit Jul 2014 #118

I don't know. ZombieHorde Jul 2014 #122

All the "NO" votes, REALLY? I think DK could have made some POWERFUL arguments. WinkyDink Jul 2014 #125

He made powerful arguments during the primaries. Renew Deal Jul 2014 #126

So very true. And so very indicative of how not-Left we Democratic voters really are. WinkyDink Jul 2014 #153

Unfortunately, arguments don't usually win the day in national politics. Adrahil Jul 2014 #128

...'tis true 'tis pity, And pity 'tis 'tis true.... WinkyDink Jul 2014 #154

Was he working for Fox yet? Renew Deal Jul 2014 #127

Yep. Iggo Jul 2014 #129

No I don't think he would of won. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #130

We're 12-18 years away from being able to elect someone with those policy positions. stevenleser Jul 2014 #132

We can't get to "being able to elect someone with those policy positions" Ken Burch Jul 2014 #140

nope afraid not nt steve2470 Jul 2014 #136

Depends, would he have taken his own candidacy seriously? Hippo_Tron Jul 2014 #142