General Discussion

Wait Wut

(8,492 posts)

76. Instead of arguing with each other...

Fri Jul 11, 2014, 03:00 PM

Jul 2014

...and trying to defend any woman that uses drugs, alcohol or cigarettes while pregnant...

...let's try working on finding solutions and preventions so this discussion isn't necessary. As a child of two alcoholics that both smoked and drank through the entire pregnancy, I can testify that not all problems are evident at birth.

You can kick and scream about this law or you can fight the reasons behind it. We need to educate women, young and older, about the effects of drugs/alcohol on an unborn child and themselves. We need to fight to make birth control affordable and accessible for all women. We need to ensure that safe and legal pregnancy termination is available to all women.

Building self-esteem, providing outlets and opportunities can be lumped in with all of this.

But, please, don't try to tell anyone that it's not the kid's problem that mom was an addict. Besides the physical/biological problems that can be caused by neonatal addiction, the long term psychological affects of being raised by addicts can be just as devastating. It isn't just the illegal drugs and opiates that can affect a child's life. Patting this woman or any other woman on the head and telling her it wasn't her fault is a damned horrible thing to do to her. Stop coddling these women and give them the courage and support they need to fight. We have enough unwanted and damaged kids in this world. Breaking the damned cycle is the only hope for the daughters of these women.

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WAR ON WOMEN: Tennessee Arrests First Mother Under Its New Pregnancy Criminalization Law [View all] conservaphobe Jul 2014 OP

Well, shame on Tennessee. CaliforniaPeggy Jul 2014 #1

K&R redqueen Jul 2014 #2

In the article, Brigid Jul 2014 #3

huh? while this law is a travesty, I think librechik Jul 2014 #4

WRONG! BillZBubb Jul 2014 #6

no, it's a classic confusion strategy librechik Jul 2014 #10

You're the one confused here. BillZBubb Jul 2014 #111

I grow weary of your solecisms. librechik Jul 2014 #116

Solecisms! That's funny. BillZBubb Jul 2014 #122

while I think criminal charges are wrong, your "facts" are lacking "facts" magical thyme Jul 2014 #140

No my facts are correct. BillZBubb Jul 2014 #144

Your "facts" are that it "probably did no harm" magical thyme Jul 2014 #152

how about putting the same Niceguy1 Jul 2014 #164

for the 3rd time, I think criminal charges are wrong magical thyme Jul 2014 #167

Is blowing crystal meth in the face of a one week old bad? joeglow3 Jul 2014 #15

It's part of the anti-abortion agenda, which is part of the war on women. pnwmom Jul 2014 #18

You realize that did not answer my questions? joeglow3 Jul 2014 #21

This child isn't fighting for its life and the woman isn't even accused of taking narcotics. pnwmom Jul 2014 #23

So, where do you draw the line? joeglow3 Jul 2014 #32

On actions taken after birth, not things the mother does to herself, pnwmom Jul 2014 #35

I have *extremely* strong feelings about maternal abuse of drugs. moriah Jul 2014 #142

We agree that jail isn't the answer. pnwmom Jul 2014 #149

This scenario actually happened to me 16 yrs ago rbrnmw Jul 2014 #185

Wow. Your story deserves its own OP. That would be every mother's nightmare. pnwmom Jul 2014 #187

me too it was horrifying rbrnmw Jul 2014 #188

Having a baby is so fraught with emotion under the best of circumstances. pnwmom Jul 2014 #191

This message was self-deleted by its author rbrnmw Jul 2014 #186

You do realize that a fetus is not a born child? WinkyDink Jul 2014 #46

I am sure the 13 year old in a 28 year old's body referenced above feels better knowing that joeglow3 Jul 2014 #169

What about children born with fetal alcohol syndrome? JDPriestly Jul 2014 #61

Right. FAS is about as bad as it gets, but we shouldn't be imprisoning women pnwmom Jul 2014 #101

When someone asked about not drinking during pregnancy: GoneOffShore Jul 2014 #171

I would not trust the French on this issue. JDPriestly Jul 2014 #189

My English sister-in-law was pregnant with her first child GoneOffShore Jul 2014 #193

Instead of Guiness, he should have prescribed vitamin B for your sister. JDPriestly Jul 2014 #194

Seriously? BillZBubb Jul 2014 #114

Those cannot be honest questions. morningfog Jul 2014 #143

I take it you have never worked in a NICU joeglow3 Jul 2014 #170

WRONG!!!! Warpy Jul 2014 #68

so let's blur the lines between abortion and harming the fetus. librechik Jul 2014 #73

Word salad Warpy Jul 2014 #77

excuse me, I am sure it IS part of the war on women librechik Jul 2014 #83

You are being deceptive. You said in your original post... BillZBubb Jul 2014 #117

you still here? librechik Jul 2014 #119

That's your retort? Was the quotation incorrect? BillZBubb Jul 2014 #124

old blind deaf and sub Bill? librechik Jul 2014 #130

Be honest, was the quotation incorrect? BillZBubb Jul 2014 #133

I guess they want pregnant drug addicts to get abortions. Shrike47 Jul 2014 #5

Or to give birth at home, away from doctors and hospitals. n/t pnwmom Jul 2014 #24

Meanwhile there are threads mocking India for a war on women....check the back yard first. Fred Sanders Jul 2014 #7

This isn't even close to the situation for women in India, no matter pnwmom Jul 2014 #20

Wonder what they are going to do to polluters who poison wells with chemical runoff. That is the jwirr Jul 2014 #8

oh, dear, I'm so sorry. Duppers Jul 2014 #11

Could you have your water tested? JDPriestly Jul 2014 #66

We lived on a farm at the bottom of a hill so the runoff every rain brought the farm chemicals down jwirr Jul 2014 #154

Very, very true. The pregnant mother is not always the JDPriestly Jul 2014 #156

I totally agree with you on alcohol and drug use during pregnancy. I have two great grandchildren jwirr Jul 2014 #158

as a mother i was extremely aware that the health of my baby Duppers Jul 2014 #9

The problem with this dumbass law is that it will discourage women who have taken drugs pnwmom Jul 2014 #14

point made. Duppers Jul 2014 #16

RISKING LIVES! MOTHER AND BABY. nt littlemissmartypants Jul 2014 #79

Is it risking a baby's life to take a cold pill or asthma medicine pnwmom Jul 2014 #89

. littlemissmartypants Jul 2014 #94

We're clearly on the same page then. pnwmom Jul 2014 #95

Today cold medicine ... littlemissmartypants Jul 2014 #96

Or poppy seeds! n/t pnwmom Jul 2014 #98

Exactly. littlemissmartypants Jul 2014 #100

one of the things about it d_r Jul 2014 #136

Where is the research that shows that meth use late in pregnancy damages a fetus? pnwmom Jul 2014 #141

yeah d_r Jul 2014 #153

As a mother of three and a former RN .... etherealtruth Jul 2014 #22

I wish people would read your response here and pnwmom's above. redqueen Jul 2014 #26

Of course it has to be spelled out IronLionZion Jul 2014 #56

It shouldn't have to be. Not here. redqueen Jul 2014 #60

I appreciate your commitment, but your way off base here. bluesbassman Jul 2014 #104

You're way off base with your interpretation. redqueen Jul 2014 #105

Possibly because YOU are the only one accusing other members of being anti-choice. bluesbassman Jul 2014 #108

WTF? I didn't "attack" any members I mentioned a goddamned fact! redqueen Jul 2014 #110

Gee, I didn't realize I was getting hysterical. Guess I'll calm down and discuss this rationally. bluesbassman Jul 2014 #115

"hysterical" redqueen Jul 2014 #118

That's what is being implied when one tells one to "calm down". bluesbassman Jul 2014 #126

Bullshit. Saying "calm down" in NO way implies that anyone is "hysterical". redqueen Jul 2014 #128

I reframed nothing and even qualified my original comment. bluesbassman Jul 2014 #132

Whatever. redqueen Jul 2014 #135

Well I'm glad we've cleared that up, and thank you, I will! bluesbassman Jul 2014 #139

I've seen at least one longtime DUer say they support overturning Roe v. Wade (though the post was nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #181

Thank you get the red out Jul 2014 #58

Please forgive me if this is a stupid question... ohheckyeah Jul 2014 #64

No one knows, least of all the police and prosecutor. For example, pnwmom Jul 2014 #92

Wow - whatever happened to ohheckyeah Jul 2014 #97

Whatever happened to Miranda? Maybe the doctors should be administering it pnwmom Jul 2014 #99

SMH at what this country has become. n/t ohheckyeah Jul 2014 #103

I agree! Duppers Jul 2014 #70

Its hard ... I think all of us etherealtruth Jul 2014 #72

Yes. To your whole post! pnwmom Jul 2014 #91

"don't bash me until you've seen this for yourself" kcr Jul 2014 #41

good grief !!1!!1 Duppers Jul 2014 #63

Your fervor is feuled by misinformation kcr Jul 2014 #67

..... 840high Jul 2014 #80

While it's tough to watch a newborn go through withdrawal Warpy Jul 2014 #84

Thanks, Warpy. Duppers Jul 2014 #90

Something like only 5% of severe alcoholics have kids with FAS Warpy Jul 2014 #106

Rather pointless law... Lancero Jul 2014 #12

It mandates a new class to be abused by drug testing firms. bluedigger Jul 2014 #17

This is a creepy, creeping extension of anti-abortion lawmaking. Comrade Grumpy Jul 2014 #13

The law sucks, but she smoked meth when she was pregnant FFS... truebrit71 Jul 2014 #19

See posts 14 and 22. nt redqueen Jul 2014 #27

"there�s no evidence the young woman...caused harm to her newborn child." Comrade Grumpy Jul 2014 #29

So you're okay with crack addicted babies, yes? truebrit71 Jul 2014 #62

Of course we don't know how many times she did it, but ... if it WAS one time? brett_jv Jul 2014 #88

I can only report what the newspaper article said. No harm found to the child. As for crack babies.. Comrade Grumpy Jul 2014 #113

So smoking meth whilst pregnant is fine. truebrit71 Jul 2014 #150

No, it's a bad idea. But the long-term effects have been greatly exaggerated. That was the point. nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #183

Will you please show us the research? pnwmom Jul 2014 #160

Just a simple Google search should help. truebrit71 Jul 2014 #172

I did. And it isn't out there. That's why I asked you to show me. n't pnwmom Jul 2014 #173

Hmm, I must use a different Google than you... truebrit71 Jul 2014 #174

I didn't say that. I said there isn't good research out there that shows pnwmom Jul 2014 #176

So until there's "good research" we should abandon common sense? truebrit71 Jul 2014 #178

The research I've seen says that cigarettes and alcohol pnwmom Jul 2014 #179

Yup. Hard drugs are just peachy when you're pregnant. truebrit71 Jul 2014 #180

I didn't even use Tylenol, because I don't think pregnant women should pnwmom Jul 2014 #182

The law does not apply to her actions. riqster Jul 2014 #49

Actually, there is very little research out there that shows pnwmom Jul 2014 #159

I am sure there are those that would etherealtruth Jul 2014 #166

She smoked meth before giving birth. House Jul 2014 #25

See posts 14 and 22. nt redqueen Jul 2014 #28

"there�s no evidence the young woman...caused harm to her newborn child." Comrade Grumpy Jul 2014 #30

She admitted to doing it. House Jul 2014 #34

It is not a crime to smoke or drink while pregnant. Maybe not smart, but not a crime. Comrade Grumpy Jul 2014 #36

I don't believe I said it was a crime. House Jul 2014 #37

You used the words not allowed kcr Jul 2014 #43

No, you should "clarify" that the words "not allowed" are not applicable in the least. WinkyDink Jul 2014 #55

Try coffee, scrambled eggs, and bacon HockeyMom Jul 2014 #54

Did the doctor read her her Miranda rights before taking her medical history? pnwmom Jul 2014 #38

+1 leftstreet Jul 2014 #45

What happened to doctor-patient privilege? Manifestor_of_Light Jul 2014 #78

"women aren't allowed to smoke or drink alcohol while pregnant"----WRONG!! Where do YOU live?! WinkyDink Jul 2014 #51

"women aren't allowed to smoke or drink alcohol while pregnant". What? uppityperson Jul 2014 #75

Women ARE allowed to smoke and drink while they're pregnant. pnwmom Jul 2014 #175

meth dosen't hurt children,...... pregnant or not NM_Birder Jul 2014 #39

You want to send this woman to prison for 15 years for something that didn't even hurt her fetus? Comrade Grumpy Jul 2014 #42

"Pregnancy and Drug Use: The Facts" Comrade Grumpy Jul 2014 #50

First-degree-murder laws tend to be ignored until someone is murdered. Your point? WinkyDink Jul 2014 #53

Dink, I agree. Meth doesn't cause problems, NM_Birder Jul 2014 #196

You can get a false positive on a meth test from taking a cold pill or asthma medicine. pnwmom Jul 2014 #69

Really .... etherealtruth Jul 2014 #44

I'm not sure where your response comes from. House Jul 2014 #48

It is regarding the woman in the article and all women etherealtruth Jul 2014 #52

Then you need to consider the larger picture. cyberswede Jul 2014 #71

It seems people are getting too emotional and irrational about this. House Jul 2014 #121

Which one am I - emotional or irrational? cyberswede Jul 2014 #125

Maybe hysterical, you uppity womyn you uppityperson Jul 2014 #138

LOL cyberswede Jul 2014 #146

A Fine Addition to Du indeed uppityperson Jul 2014 #147

Err, welcome to DU. Have you considered this as your avatar? alp227 Jul 2014 #195

What happened to lawlessness and less government intrusions? liberal N proud Jul 2014 #31

This is wrong on so many levels -- I want to kick someone. pnwmom Jul 2014 #33

Thank you. nt littlemissmartypants Jul 2014 #81

What bullshit ismnotwasm Jul 2014 #40

Oh, it'll be a deterrent for addicts, all right. Mariana Jul 2014 #157

+1 ismnotwasm Jul 2014 #184

Obviously, the logical end-game is to outlaw abortion. WinkyDink Jul 2014 #47

And ultimately, to turn women back into chattel. riqster Jul 2014 #57

This message was self-deleted by its author Duppers Jul 2014 #93

sorry about the dumbmity of my post Duppers Jul 2014 #120

No problem! I'm good friends with that stick, myself! WinkyDink Jul 2014 #155

"ACLU-TN Seeks to Challenge New Law Criminalizing Addicted Mothers" Comrade Grumpy Jul 2014 #59

Not to be rude, but..... daleanime Jul 2014 #65

Why is there never any talk ohheckyeah Jul 2014 #74

Instead of arguing with each other... Wait Wut Jul 2014 #76

Good post. Agree. 840high Jul 2014 #82

well said. n/t one_voice Jul 2014 #148

The problem is that the law itself won't help. It will just make things worse. pnwmom Jul 2014 #162

Pregnancy. The gateway drug. littlemissmartypants Jul 2014 #85

SMH Mr Dixon Jul 2014 #86

Breast milk? eom littlemissmartypants Jul 2014 #87

Why does this blog omit the fact that the baby girl tested POSITIVE FOR METH? LittleBlue Jul 2014 #102

The kiddo will have a rough 48-72 hours Warpy Jul 2014 #107

They are very compassionate people LittleBlue Jul 2014 #109

Cold pills and asthma medicine can cause false positives for meth because pnwmom Jul 2014 #163

This is a good case to prove the stupidity of the law. nt Ilsa Jul 2014 #112

One can think arresting her this way is bad public policy and still not think a 9 mo. pregnant woman Warren DeMontague Jul 2014 #123

Exactly. BillZBubb Jul 2014 #127

But goddess fucking forbid anyone lament that that fact should have to be explained here redqueen Jul 2014 #129

Surprising ain't it! BillZBubb Jul 2014 #134

Sadly, it is not. nt redqueen Jul 2014 #137

That is what enraging in these discussions etherealtruth Jul 2014 #151

It isn't a great thing and I wouldn't do it. I didn't even use Tylenol. pnwmom Jul 2014 #165

Except studies have demonstrated that meth use during pregnancy harms the fetus. Gravitycollapse Jul 2014 #177

In the fine tradition of the "war on drugs".. sendero Jul 2014 #131

Neonatal Abstinence Syndrome ain't shit compared to intellectual delays, which alcohol causes. moriah Jul 2014 #145

Southern states are turning into baby mills--selling kids. This is a way to takes babies from mother McCamy Taylor Jul 2014 #161

Won't this INCREASE abortions and back alley deliveries? apples and oranges Jul 2014 #168

Kick! Heidi Jul 2014 #190

Completely serious here... Quantess Jul 2014 #192