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socialist_n_TN

(11,481 posts)

91. Part of being a Classic Marxist (as Trotsky was) is......

Sat Jul 12, 2014, 11:15 AM

Jul 2014

looking at things in context, including the context of the times, issues, and events involved. As an objective for instance, a lot of people are surprised when I, as a Marxist, claim that capitalism was a progressive system at one time. They will bring up the expansion, exploitation, and oppression that is ALWAYS and always HAS been inherent in capitalism and ask how capitalism could EVER be thought of as "progressive". Well, compared to feudalism, capitalism WAS progressive in most areas.

Democracy is something of a luxury when you're fighting for your life. You can vote to disarm the fascists and counter-revolutionaries of the capitalist order, but that vote don't do shit to disarm them. That has to be done with a class self-defense methodology. I'm not sure of the exact timing of that Trotsky quote you brought up, but most of his active participation in the early years of the USSR involved fighting against that capitalist counter-revolution aided and abetted by the western imperialist powers. So in those circumstances, I'm willing to cut him some slack.

Finally, though I'm am a Trotskyist, as a Marxist I realize that Trotsky was just a man. Brilliant, brave, and yes, sometimes ruthless in fighting for his ideals, but still just a man. Which means he wasn't omnipotent or omniscient. He made mistakes as all people do. As I've said numerous times in this thread, I would hope that with the Marxist analytical method, any new attempt at a workers' state would take into account ALL the mistakes that have been made in the past and try to avoid them.

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I haven't seen an "Appreciation Thread" for socialists, communists and ...... [View all] socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 OP

Now here's an appreciation thread..... daleanime Jul 2014 #1

Thanks........ socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #11

Me, too! Louisiana1976 Jul 2014 #130

K&R! octoberlib Jul 2014 #2

And thanks for the K&R..... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #12

And have you noticed that since the Soviet Union collapsed malaise Jul 2014 #3

Oh, yes I HAVE noticed that... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #6

I actually predicted that malaise Jul 2014 #8

Yep, that counter IS very necessary........ socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #10

You guys pine away for a nation that subjected many to great oppression. That's part of why Bluenorthwest Jul 2014 #30

Don't ever confuse Stalinism with the workers' democracy.... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #36

And as to LGBT issues, you won't find any more staunch allies today than communists and socialists. DonCoquixote Jul 2014 #67

I agree.... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #72

I think any "ism" can go sour on LGBT, for example. Certainly many in RKP5637 Jul 2014 #79

As to whether any "ism" can go sour on any social issue.... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #86

I would not hate RT DonCoquixote Jul 2014 #95

As I said above, RT is a mouthpiece for the Russian Federation and...... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #98

That's because you don't understand the discussion n/t malaise Jul 2014 #37

+1 nt laundry_queen Jul 2014 #64

Exactly! n/t RKP5637 Jul 2014 #82

Was homosexuality legal under the Tsars? leftstreet Jul 2014 #42

No, because the Imperial System was in lock step with the Russian Orthodox Catholic Church. Half-Century Man Jul 2014 #44

It wasn't legal in the US either. Starry Messenger Jul 2014 #120

Just because they called themselves Communists, they were not. Karl Marx would not have liked rhett o rick Jul 2014 #48

Like that book "Animal Farm." The pigs took over. nilesobek Jul 2014 #88

Absolutely. nm rhett o rick Jul 2014 #147

They also managed to have equal rights for women - TBF Jul 2014 #84

Here's to the crumbs! yallerdawg Jul 2014 #4

Yep. Of course we Classic Reds.......... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #9

as long as you do not toos democracy out with the cake DonCoquixote Jul 2014 #68

Part of being a Classic Marxist (as Trotsky was) is...... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #91

I love you guys!! PowerToThePeople Jul 2014 #5

Why thank you, thank you very much........ socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #7

Well said, socialist_n_TN. Octafish Jul 2014 #13

EXACTLY. And somebody (everybody?) needs to point out that...... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #15

Some folks are morphing ever more Leftward...from the " KoKo Jul 2014 #14

I think that the Internet has been great for democractizing........ socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #16

Refining what it means to be a Democrat with help from those leftward...but also, lessons learned KoKo Jul 2014 #17

Yes... malokvale77 Jul 2014 #41

Yes, that is the VERY reason..... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #49

Definitely, and of course, why so many governments, including fractions of our own, want RKP5637 Jul 2014 #83

...1 KoKo Jul 2014 #134

Why thank you! joshcryer Jul 2014 #18

Oh Josh, we're just trying to show you the error of your ways..... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #19

I appreciate that there is more than just Marxist-Leninism. joshcryer Jul 2014 #39

That's why it can't be a dictatorship. TBF Jul 2014 #85

Thank goodness I don't live in a RTW state and have red commie electric. Yes, it's the real deal. freshwest Jul 2014 #20

Well, it ain't easy being Red........ socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #21

Or Arkansas rickyhall Jul 2014 #24

Or Arkansas..... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #26

Growing up in RTW TX, we still won our suburban district for the SWP for POTUS. freshwest Jul 2014 #38

Good point in your last paragraph..... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #50

Ok, ok... Laffy Kat Jul 2014 #22

Thanks...... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #25

Right You Are - Without The 99% - The 1% Would Never Be Forced To Do Anything But Feed Their Greed cantbeserious Jul 2014 #23

The 1% (I call them the owners of society) don't EVER do anything..... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #27

Understand Your Thoughts - A System Reset Is In Order - However, Greed Is Synonymous With The 1% For Me cantbeserious Jul 2014 #29

I can get behind this. Blue_In_AK Jul 2014 #28

Thanks........ socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #55

Very True, Sir The Magistrate Jul 2014 #31

And that is the point of this post...... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #51

Hear, Here! I don't know what all those other "appreciation" threads are about.. 2banon Jul 2014 #32

Thanks 2banon, I figured our guys and gals in SP would appreciate it... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #63

:) 2banon Jul 2014 #121

Although these appreciation threads kinda make me cringe, navarth Jul 2014 #33

Yeah, I've got to admit I don't even read most of them..... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #52

Kicking. Thank you. nt littlemissmartypants Jul 2014 #34

You're welcome..... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #54

I don't know if Social Democrats count as "real" socialists, but this country could use a sharp turn nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #35

I look at Social Democrats as revolutionary socialists who........ socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #58

As a long-time DSA member... mndemsocialist Jul 2014 #168

Exactly! Pre-Reagan it was a far better place, at least it seemed people, RKP5637 Jul 2014 #80

We include them because at least they TBF Jul 2014 #87

I just take "Social Democrat" to mean, believing in democracy, but also in (some form of) socialism. nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #129

Interestingly I think many of us are TBF Jul 2014 #132

Absolutely. In some ways, Scandinavian-style Social Democracy is my ideal. nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #133

Great thread, Stalin. DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2014 #40

Please. I'm about as far from Stalin as you can get....... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #46

It was intended in jest. nt DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2014 #59

I'm never sure in GD...... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #62

DURec leftstreet Jul 2014 #43

Thanks leftstreet....... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #56

... leftstreet Jul 2014 #92

I learned to be a Socialist in the US military. Half-Century Man Jul 2014 #45

The amount of violence in a socialist revolution would be in direct proportion........ socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #47

Screw the bayonet. The Green Manalishi Jul 2014 #143

Woot! Starry Messenger Jul 2014 #53

Yep. Most of the leaders of oppressed peoples..... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #57

i appreciate you and america needs you SwampG8r Jul 2014 #60

Thanks for getting it....... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #61

not a boogyman SwampG8r Jul 2014 #65

Making people "forget where the left is" is one of the great...... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #66

I totally agree fasttense Jul 2014 #69

Nailed it. ctsnowman Jul 2014 #70

Thanks to you ct. As I said above........ socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #73

Gratitude is a great attitude IronLionZion Jul 2014 #71

I'm pretty pleased with gratitude too..... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #75

k/r marmar Jul 2014 #74

Thanks marmar. You're another one I've been...... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #76

Mutual admiration s_n_t marmar Jul 2014 #78

They'll tell us to "Get a room!"... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #93

yep. They're usually about egos that don't need a boost stupidicus Jul 2014 #77

I was just seeing all of those "appreciation" titles on threads........ socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #97

I agree with that assessment. malthaussen Jul 2014 #81

That part about the USSR that you mentioned....... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #99

Certified "Red" checking in. K&R for the man who described "vampire capitalism" McCamy Taylor Jul 2014 #89

Thanks McCamy..... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #101

Hopefully a nod to the anarchists as well - TBF Jul 2014 #90

Most anarchists are Classic Red IMO....... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #94

We'll get there TBF Jul 2014 #96

+1 Joe Shlabotnik Jul 2014 #123

Agree 100% - TBF Jul 2014 #126

Competition can be good. moondust Jul 2014 #100

Oh it most definitely did contribute....... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #102

I think it may have been more the fact that everyone was decimated after WWII - TBF Jul 2014 #103

"workers will take them down" moondust Jul 2014 #104

I appreciate Albert Einstein and Jesus Christ. JEFF9K Jul 2014 #105

The more intelligent people usually are..... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #115

Karl Marx is number one! Yeah! Workers of the World unite! McCamy Taylor Jul 2014 #106

k/r! sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #107

Thanks sabrina..... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #116

No problem, and the feeling is mutual! sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #146

From each according to his ability... JackRiddler Jul 2014 #108

This is why I believe that the more "utopian" parts of Marxism...... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #114

I'm, of course, in. Lifelong Protester Jul 2014 #109

You haven't ended this one Lifelong Protester...... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #111

Hooray! Lifelong Protester Jul 2014 #148

You are most welcome. And appropriately..... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #161

I came for the music... johnp3907 Jul 2014 #110

Billy Bragg. ANOTHER Classic Red........ socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #112

democratic socialism is wheres its at! iamthebandfanman Jul 2014 #113

Well as to how evolved we are..... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #117

Right you are. WCLinolVir Jul 2014 #118

Thanks and welcome to DU.... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #141

I don't read vanity appreciation threads, but This is not that, I agree with your post Dragonfli Jul 2014 #119

Well the studying part is VERY important....... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #162

I'd say you are quite well in advance of myself Dragonfli Jul 2014 #166

No problem Dragonfli..... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #167

This is coming too late probably, but sadoldgirl Jul 2014 #122

As it stands, Joe Shlabotnik Jul 2014 #124

The truth is spoken. n/t Bonhomme Richard Jul 2014 #125

Good man, Richard!...... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #139

I started a thread for one Socialist in particular, Rose Schneiderman Babel_17 Jul 2014 #127

Thanks Babel. This is what the owners have in store for all of us...... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #138

K&R from this Wobblie The Green Manalishi Jul 2014 #128

And THAT is the militancy we need from EVERYBODY!!! socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #137

I heard this kind of talk growing up TBF Jul 2014 #151

That's okay... MrMickeysMom Jul 2014 #131

Thanks Mick's Mom.... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #136

Yup! I appreciate Cedric Robinson! OrwellwasRight Jul 2014 #135

Thanks...... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #153

Excellent thread. K&R Louisiana1976 Jul 2014 #140

Thanks. I'm sure it's not easy being Classic Red in Louisiana either..... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #154

K&R me b zola Jul 2014 #142

Thanks and right back atcha!........ socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #155

TIS' THE FINAL BATTLE!.... De Leonist Jul 2014 #144

Thanks De Leonist! That was inspiring on a Sunday morning...... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #152

Nicely done SnTEN WhaTHellsgoingonhere Jul 2014 #145

You're welcome. And as you can see..... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #156

welll, in the cooperative spirit... WhaTHellsgoingonhere Jul 2014 #163

Old SDS comrade here! Sognefjord Jul 2014 #149

It DID turn out to be a good one, didn't it?...... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #158

Thanks, I'll check it out. Sognefjord Jul 2014 #165

KnR. It's time to grow up. nt Zorra Jul 2014 #150

Past time, I think we'd both say Zorra......... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #160

The feeling is mutual s_n_T. Hopefully, enough of us can get together Zorra Jul 2014 #164

If your #1 issue is Hillary 2016, I question your commitment to "socialism".... Romulox Jul 2014 #157

I think that some just k&r for the original thread's intent....... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #159