General Discussion

joshcryer

(62,534 posts)

91. Not what I was saying.

Thu Apr 5, 2012, 08:56 PM

Apr 2012

Dialectical materialism basically says that capitalism will go through a process until it collapses and we have socialism. All well and good. But that argument is like the rapture argument (don't do anything about the environment the rapture will happen so we'll be fine). Eventually single payer or something like it would be the outcome, of course. But collapse is already imminent. This is a do nothing or a do nothing that isn't perfect attitude, and it's one reason communism has failed to gain traction in, oh, over a century. It results in millions of people being affected, if the capitalist collapse occurs it will be billions.

Let the world burn is the basic idea. It's why some leftists were happy that Gore's presidency was stolen, because they thought it "had to get worse before it gets better." Of course, to hell with the millions that suffered for it.

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If ACA mandates are upheld, we won't get Medicare-for-All and better health care for a generation. [View all] Better Believe It Mar 2012 OP

Medicare for all isn't going to happen.... ingac70 Mar 2012 #1

It can't happen if the insurance industry gets a total lock on the healthcare system. Better Believe It Mar 2012 #2

Bro, most of these justices help elect Bush. U can't be serious. FarLeftFist Mar 2012 #18

Bush wasn't elected President, he was appointed by the judges. And not one persona is added .... Better Believe It Mar 2012 #24

You are again saying the exact opposite of the truth. TheWraith Apr 2012 #28

The thing that cooks my goose. bluestate10 Apr 2012 #107

You think the Supreme Court would allow Medicare for all? Firebrand Gary Mar 2012 #3

Of course. Because the argument is about buying "private insurance" not public via taxes. Better Believe It Mar 2012 #6

If you believe this court DonCoquixote Mar 2012 #7

the SCOTUS could do nothing about Medicare for all. cali Mar 2012 #14

And as the Supremes indicated themselves in oral arguments this past week kenny blankenship Mar 2012 #16

The supreme court would have no say in Medicare for all. NCTraveler Apr 2012 #59

why wouldn't they? paulk Apr 2012 #103

do you have health insurance or coverage right now? CreekDog Mar 2012 #4

We're not going to get it anyway. Maybe one state at a time. that's the only possibility. robinlynne Mar 2012 #5

It will become far more difficult than it already is because a nationally institutionalized Uncle Joe Mar 2012 #8

You made the point better than I did. Thank you. Better Believe It Mar 2012 #9

You really need to read the other parts of the ACA. jeff47 Apr 2012 #60

Those two can easily be overcome by the for profit "health" insurance industry. Uncle Joe Apr 2012 #80

That's not what I said. jeff47 Apr 2012 #84

I didn't lie about you, I was just literally asking you a question. Uncle Joe Apr 2012 #86

That is a rather bold prediction Proud Liberal Dem Mar 2012 #10

Since you aren't going to answer my question, then when can preexisting conditions get coverage? CreekDog Mar 2012 #11

There was a local couple who had reached their lifetime limit. blue neen Apr 2012 #39

If ACA/mandate IS NOT upheld we won't get Medicare for All for a generation. Either way librechik Mar 2012 #12

you can't possibly be this naive. cali Mar 2012 #13

Have you read the OP's threads for the past 3 years? scheming daemons Mar 2012 #17

Do you plan to continue with your constant personal attacks/smears against DU'ers you disagree with? Better Believe It Mar 2012 #21

do you plan to continue your constant attacks/smears of the President? scheming daemons Apr 2012 #25

I and other DU'ers have not engaged in personal attacks or smears against President Obama. Better Believe It Apr 2012 #26

You are, and have been, helping the GOP scheming daemons Apr 2012 #31

That is just wrong. No fucking way in hell will Autumn Apr 2012 #33

He will not likely succeed much... but it isn't for lack of tryimg scheming daemons Apr 2012 #34

Is this one a post you object to? Did BBI try hard enough here? Autumn Apr 2012 #40

There's something really interesting about that video. blue neen Apr 2012 #46

I saw no images of Obama other than the one on the Autumn Apr 2012 #48

Like Bush, they'll just deny the truth fascisthunter Apr 2012 #96

The OP definitely does not speak for all progressives. blue neen Apr 2012 #36

if you are deluded, yes fascisthunter Apr 2012 #95

This. nt Bobbie Jo Apr 2012 #88

nope... that's a straight up lie fascisthunter Apr 2012 #94

"I... have not engaged in personal attacks or smears against President Obama" dionysus Apr 2012 #55

Whenever you are accused of attacking the Democrats, you attempt to deflect the criticism by FSogol Apr 2012 #65

that depends on how you define "attack", doesn't it? paulk Apr 2012 #104

The statements made are true. bluestate10 Apr 2012 #109

Anti-Obama? The mandate was originally a HERITAGE FOUNDATION idea. Zalatix Apr 2012 #27

Their "mandate" was a tax credit, Obama's is a fine. joshcryer Apr 2012 #67

So.. Obama's plan is even more fascist than the Heritage Foundation plan. girl gone mad Apr 2012 #69

If you don't pay your taxes under single payer you'd get a fine. joshcryer Apr 2012 #71

Don't confuse me with logic or facts emulatorloo Apr 2012 #83

You could get jail time with single payer if you didn't pay your taxes. joshcryer Apr 2012 #92

"Nothing but non-stop anti-Obama posts" bvar22 Apr 2012 #41

Unfortunately, LBJ did force Americans to tithe For Profit Corporations: blue neen Apr 2012 #43

Never did I EVER expect to ever have to say... bvar22 Apr 2012 #47

I wasn't speaking of his war "record", either. The reference was to how he paid for it, blue neen Apr 2012 #49

"Nothing but non-stop anti-Obama posts."... SidDithers Apr 2012 #42

So you place your trust in the health insurance industry parasites that don't give a shit about you? Better Believe It Apr 2012 #56

You don't supply anywhere else to place our trust. jeff47 Apr 2012 #64

Bernie first has to get President Obama's support for Medicare for All before he can get Better Believe It Apr 2012 #99

59 other Senators jeff47 Apr 2012 #122

Could not disagree more. cbayer Mar 2012 #15

How will an insurance company lock on our medical system promote a single payer system? Better Believe It Mar 2012 #23

Because the mandate isn't the only part of the ACA. jeff47 Apr 2012 #38

You've got it. Robb Apr 2012 #51

It's the heart and soul of the "Health Insurance Industry and Big Pharma Protection Act" Better Believe It Apr 2012 #54

A mandate, either through the ACA or a single-payer system, is necessary jeff47 Apr 2012 #58

People not paying for health care is a $600 tax on people who do. joshcryer Apr 2012 #70

So a single payer system has something to do with "Marxist dialectical materialism"???!!! Better Believe It Apr 2012 #89

Not what I was saying. joshcryer Apr 2012 #91

Did a Marxist tell you that's what dialectical materialism is? Probably not. Better Believe It Apr 2012 #114

How does that disagree with what I said? Systemic decay an outcome. joshcryer Apr 2012 #116

Anyone cheering for the repeal of ACA is willing to throw millions of Americans under the bus... SidDithers Mar 2012 #19

Vermont i think is an excellent example of how Single payer can grow from ACA Bodhi BloodWave Apr 2012 #30

I agree. That's the road to single payer in the US... SidDithers Apr 2012 #52

If ACA goes down, Vermont's plan is finished. bluestate10 Apr 2012 #111

which is what i tried to point out Bodhi BloodWave Apr 2012 #127

Is that how Canada did it Sid? How long did it take your country to get Autumn Apr 2012 #97

Between 30 and 40 years... SidDithers Apr 2012 #100

Makes me wish I was a lot younger Autumn Apr 2012 #102

Health Care in Canada is administered provincially... SidDithers Apr 2012 #105

Too bad our government can't learn from yours. Autumn Apr 2012 #106

I may not have been clear enough... SidDithers Apr 2012 #108

I like your system. It sounds like it works, ours here Autumn Apr 2012 #110

ACA was literally written by the Insurance Cartel's lobbyists sitting in the Finance Committee kenny blankenship Mar 2012 #20

So if the insurance cartel loves it, why are they trying to get it declared unconstitutional? emulatorloo Apr 2012 #37

+1, there's a reason the Cato Institute, Heritage Foundation, and the dispicible ALEC don't want it. joshcryer Apr 2012 #68

Wow do you make shit up all the time? kenny blankenship Apr 2012 #72

Don't be so aggressive towards DU members. The endgame is striking down or repealing "Obamacare." emulatorloo Apr 2012 #82

This is why Democrats lose. We've seen this played out time and again, in state after state, Egalitarian Thug Apr 2012 #73

You should probably read the law you're complaining about jeff47 Apr 2012 #74

Ah yes, of course. I was born last night and when that turnip truck I was in hit a pothole Egalitarian Thug Apr 2012 #76

Ah yes, "Bored" yet can't actually come up with a response. jeff47 Apr 2012 #79

Of course I can, I'm just not going to waste my time w/you. n/t Egalitarian Thug Apr 2012 #93

Alright, enjoy fighting for the pre-ACA status-quo! jeff47 Apr 2012 #123

+10000 - And carried out as a slick bipartisan scam. woo me with science Apr 2012 #124

And if it fails, the next generation will have worse than we have now. n/t lumberjack_jeff Mar 2012 #22

We're no more likely to get it if it fails. mmonk Apr 2012 #29

Single-payer would be better than ACA / ObamaCare JustABozoOnThisBus Apr 2012 #32

Up is down. joshcryer Apr 2012 #35

Black is White, bvar22 Apr 2012 #45

Obama bad. Must stop. All costs. DevonRex Apr 2012 #44

Take heart. Election season at DU will soon officially begin... SidDithers Apr 2012 #50

LOL! And if the Admins don't ban BBI does that mean election season 2012 never began? Poll_Blind Apr 2012 #57

BBI will need to be more responsible about his sources. And stop misrepresenting by omission emulatorloo Apr 2012 #85

+1 n/t FSogol Apr 2012 #61

and we'll get just that from republicans, if they win. keep trying. dionysus Apr 2012 #53

RomneyCare is more popular. NCTraveler Apr 2012 #62

Bullshit. bluestate10 Apr 2012 #112

The only way out is to let the cartel suicide, not to feed them customers nor to give them a key to TheKentuckian Apr 2012 #63

Your alternative is........? jeff47 Apr 2012 #66

I already said the option is to let it crash sooner rather than later. TheKentuckian Apr 2012 #75

Ok, now maybe you should read my post jeff47 Apr 2012 #78

Bribing Congress doesn't create more total resources in the system. TheKentuckian Apr 2012 #125

Math. It's your friend. jeff47 Apr 2012 #128

With modern technology, americans can start insuring each other. bluestate10 Apr 2012 #113

interesting idea bigapple Apr 2012 #115

If you didn't have insurance to hate on treestar Apr 2012 #77

Perhaps you didn't notice that the insurance companies and big pharma support the insurance bill. Better Believe It Apr 2012 #98

I've seen that meme that they "wrote it" treestar Apr 2012 #126

And if the mandate is knocked down WeekendWarrior Apr 2012 #81

What makes you believe that we'd get single-payer if ACA dies? MineralMan Apr 2012 #87

I agree with you exactly. bluestate10 Apr 2012 #118

If the ACA is struck down, there won't be reform for a generation. AtomicKitten Apr 2012 #90

it truly is herp derp worthy, is't it? dionysus Apr 2012 #119

If ACA goes down. bluestate10 Apr 2012 #120

You identified the culprit. I have always said that we are never going to get Cleita Apr 2012 #101

If its over turned, it will take 3 or more generations. JoePhilly Apr 2012 #117

Try 100 years, Joe. bluestate10 Apr 2012 #121