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uppityperson

(116,020 posts)

220. You continue to judge without knowledge of the facts and what toddler could perceive

Reply to TheBlackAdder (Reply #212)

Sat Jul 12, 2014, 09:50 PM

Jul 2014

"quiet humiliation" from overly judgmental people?

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Leashed kids in the mall. [View all] trumad Jul 2014 OP

This message was self-deleted by its author steve2470 Jul 2014 #1

I used to think so too but bad things can happen so quickly. CBGLuthier Jul 2014 #2

stroller notadmblnd Jul 2014 #5

kids need exercise too CBGLuthier Jul 2014 #17

Plus many are paper trained. ChairmanAgnostic Jul 2014 #111

one stroller with pedals Shankapotomus Jul 2014 #20

Wonder how much this pedaled stroller costs? vankuria Jul 2014 #109

Price in a seach come up between Shankapotomus Jul 2014 #126

Kids can be stolen from strollers. nt valerief Jul 2014 #81

usually the ones on leashes are the same ones that will not stay in a stroller lunasun Jul 2014 #105

You convince an energetic 2 or 3 year old they want to ride in a stroller. dflprincess Jul 2014 #211

All kids are different gollygee Jul 2014 #213

they sometimes want out of the stroller too 2pooped2pop Jul 2014 #301

Like any tool, they can be used well or misused. It drives me nuts to see kids in strollers uppityperson Jul 2014 #3

I disagree notadmblnd Jul 2014 #7

Many years ago, when my kid was 3, I was in London with him cali Jul 2014 #72

+1 !! exactly used in different sports = good point lunasun Jul 2014 #107

Why not? laundry_queen Jul 2014 #91

Righht on!!! Lurker Deluxe Jul 2014 #133

it is a very good place to exercise Niceguy1 Jul 2014 #153

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2014 #171

And I put a bark collar on my kid so when they yelled, they'd get a zap and learn to shut up uppityperson Jul 2014 #188

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2014 #190

What, you think the child is supposed to be in control? moriah Jul 2014 #192

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2014 #196

omg, I am so ashamed that I "controlled" my child!! uppityperson Jul 2014 #194

Did you walk to the library? cyberswede Jul 2014 #195

I had to change out the chain choke collar for a leather one in the library because of the noise uppityperson Jul 2014 #198

Quiet in the library, please! greatauntoftriplets Jul 2014 #214

stroller. i could not do that one. restriction of freedom and exploration. seabeyond Jul 2014 #4

I don't think anything is wrong with that Tetris_Iguana Jul 2014 #6

I'm getting ready to buy one for my grandson..... hedgehog Jul 2014 #8

ya. especially if you are older. true that. got a puppy. first time out, without leash, seabeyond Jul 2014 #10

Nothing new. I have a photo of myself, taken in 1949 MineralMan Jul 2014 #9

Your post is worthless without pictures!! madinmaryland Jul 2014 #57

My damned scanner is broken. MineralMan Jul 2014 #60

Lighten up Francis taterguy Jul 2014 #289

I, too, cannot understand how you could post antiquie Jul 2014 #63

Sadly, I don't have that photo in digital form. But here's another one, when I was six MineralMan Jul 2014 #74

Ooh, a real cutie antiquie Jul 2014 #78

Mischief? Perish the thought... MineralMan Jul 2014 #167

I'm not gonna lie. Rod Beauvex Jul 2014 #93

LOL. Either would do, for sure. MineralMan Jul 2014 #168

I recognize that bolo tie! MrsMatt Jul 2014 #197

Too cool! MineralMan Jul 2014 #204

I recall one from way back then. I can't remember it being used much, but now I remember it, as I RKP5637 Jul 2014 #84

your post with reflection had great image painted with words lunasun Jul 2014 #110

How nice of you to say that. MineralMan Jul 2014 #180

They were leather, some of them, with buckles, and not at all uncommon. MADem Jul 2014 #113

Yes. I've never really understood the objections. MineralMan Jul 2014 #182

All of those "handfuls" of days gone by were lucky kids! MADem Jul 2014 #202

True. We had enormous freedom as children MineralMan Jul 2014 #205

The child leash then is much older than I thought left is right Jul 2014 #311

Wouldn't it be something if every small child had the same temperament and impulse control? Tikki Jul 2014 #11

+1000! The caretaker should do whatever it takes to keep the child safe TheDebbieDee Jul 2014 #65

BINGO laundry_queen Jul 2014 #94

Exactly! Well said! City Lights Jul 2014 #117

I wouldn't take any 2 or 3 year old to a crowded venue without one. Live and Learn Jul 2014 #12

Big international airports--OMG.... I can CERTAINLY see why parents might want to use leashes hlthe2b Jul 2014 #37

I'm totally with you on that one, especially with more than one child. Laffy Kat Jul 2014 #59

I saw a little kid about three take off sprinting for the door at a hospital awhile back. His mom brewens Jul 2014 #13

Yep, Boudica the Lyoness Jul 2014 #144

Isn't strapping a kid in a stroller even more restrictive? Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #14

It's a cultural thing. Igel Jul 2014 #102

Why the need to take them to the mall?? retread Jul 2014 #15

Presumably the family needs clothes. nt LeftyMom Jul 2014 #16

Only malls have clothes? No locally owned stores? retread Jul 2014 #155

All the "local" clothing stores here sell size 00 twee dresses and 70 dollar t shirts. LeftyMom Jul 2014 #201

What is wrong with taking them to the mall? nt Live and Learn Jul 2014 #18

You have to put your young children on leashes. retread Jul 2014 #156

You say that as if it is a problem. It is not. Live and Learn Jul 2014 #223

1. To buy stuff. 2. You don't have to worry about them running into traffic. Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #21

why not? it is cheap entertainment for a little one. acitivty. stimulation. social interacting. seabeyond Jul 2014 #23

Never too early to teach the little ones American-style consumption. retread Jul 2014 #157

seriously? saying to the person that hates shopping and hates spending more. right. seabeyond Jul 2014 #164

Saying to the person that says it is cheap entertainment, etc. retread Jul 2014 #165

activity. stimulation. social interacting. yes. a world of listening, seeing, learning and having seabeyond Jul 2014 #169

Taking a young child to the mall for entertainment is barely a notch above parking them in retread Jul 2014 #174

you do not know what you are talking about or just looking for a fight. either way, not interested seabeyond Jul 2014 #175

For many places, the mall has been comparable to town square. People go there to socialize, uppityperson Jul 2014 #208

tell me you don't have kids snooper2 Jul 2014 #284

How else does mom go shopping. MineralMan Jul 2014 #25

The mall is the only place mom can shop? What happened to locally owned stores. What a strange, retread Jul 2014 #158

Aren't some of the stores at the mall locally owned? agentS Jul 2014 #176

You may be correct. I don't go to malls. I wonder how they can afford the monthly nut? Malls retread Jul 2014 #181

I don't know. You'd have to ask her. MineralMan Jul 2014 #179

You did ask how else is mom to go shopping? retread Jul 2014 #184

She'd probably use the harness wherever she went. MineralMan Jul 2014 #187

Why does "need" come into play? City Lights Jul 2014 #118

Never too early to train the little ones to be a good consumer is it. retread Jul 2014 #159

Sometimes people go to the mall without buying anything. nt City Lights Jul 2014 #162

That's where the shopping is. Iggo Jul 2014 #131

Not all parents have a support system avebury Jul 2014 #152

If a town is large enough to support a mall, it is large enough to have many retread Jul 2014 #161

Size of town is not the issue. The point that I am making avebury Jul 2014 #178

Other people don't need your permission gollygee Jul 2014 #216

Because you have to get stuff? gollygee Jul 2014 #215

I took my daughter to Disney a couple years ago... Dr Hobbitstein Jul 2014 #19

Would you also unstrap and remove kids from strollers, so they can also roam free? (nt) Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #26

Children are not animals... Dr Hobbitstein Jul 2014 #28

You ever see a kid after they get hit by a car or fall down the stairs? CBGLuthier Jul 2014 #29

As a parent, it is our job to WATCH our kids... Dr Hobbitstein Jul 2014 #34

Yep, damned parent had the nerve to turn their head Live and Learn Jul 2014 #42

+1 nt laundry_queen Jul 2014 #98

Oh, I don't know. Putting in an invisible fence and shock collar on my kids worked wonders for uppityperson Jul 2014 #61

Oh, I just saw you in the news gvstn Jul 2014 #233

Holding their hand isn't necessarily better gollygee Jul 2014 #238

or heard the screams and wails of a child whose foot is caught in an escalator? hlthe2b Jul 2014 #39

That kid is BACK on the escalator again. Dr Hobbitstein Jul 2014 #43

Wow, that is so fucking funny. CBGLuthier Jul 2014 #86

my daughter knows to hold my hand when in parking lots snooper2 Jul 2014 #285

As mentioned upthread, not all kids are the same. laundry_queen Jul 2014 #97

My daughter has autism... Dr Hobbitstein Jul 2014 #112

I guess we all just have to admit you are a superior parent to the rest of us. CBGLuthier Jul 2014 #114

foot, not hand snooper2 Jul 2014 #286

YOUR child with autism isn't someone else's laundry_queen Jul 2014 #115

Thank you and exactly. I am amazed at the attitudes. n/t Butterbean Jul 2014 #125

Exactly. I must be on ignore, or else he's just ignoring me uppityperson Jul 2014 #132

^^^^ This^^^^ TY laundry queen. WTF gets into some people? Hekate Jul 2014 #314

This message was self-deleted by its author ann--- Jul 2014 #124

Bravo, laundry_queen phylny Jul 2014 #172

Get Real! It is for the safety of the kids dem in texas Jul 2014 #22

I've done enough baby sitting for my toddler nephews BainsBane Jul 2014 #24

Or if you are very pregnant with a running toddler laundry_queen Jul 2014 #100

This message was self-deleted by its author Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #27

And who are YOU to question a DUer's desire to return? Your post ought to be self-deleted. Shame hlthe2b Jul 2014 #40

OK. On second thoughts, welcome back Trumad, and keep 'em coming (nt) Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #46

Shouldn't a reply be relevant to the post? Live and Learn Jul 2014 #45

OK, self-deleted (nt) Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #47

Very nice. Live and Learn Jul 2014 #49

I draw the line at choke chains. bluedigger Jul 2014 #30

how about pinch collars? KinMd Jul 2014 #69

I actually use a Martingale style collar for my dog. bluedigger Jul 2014 #75

I was using one of those pipi_k Jul 2014 #231

Nice looking harness. bluedigger Jul 2014 #241

Not just a good idea, it should be MANDATORY, IMHO. TheMightyFavog Jul 2014 #31

How about a toddler with mom holding his hand MineralMan Jul 2014 #32

Or, ir you have a really tall... 3catwoman3 Jul 2014 #92

My friend's daughter got her shoulder dislocated at age 2 years. Hekate Jul 2014 #315

We have a kid who, as a toddler, would vanish in an eyeblink. hunter Jul 2014 #33

Nothing wrong with it, depending on the child. Ms. Toad Jul 2014 #35

2 of my kids were mercuryblues Jul 2014 #68

I would rather see leashed kids (as long as they aren't dragged by said leash) than... moriah Jul 2014 #36

Before leashes, kids were tied together with ropes thelordofhell Jul 2014 #38

I had a few near misses with my boys Mz Pip Jul 2014 #41

My Mom had me on a leash and harness in the mid 1940s, but MineralMan Jul 2014 #44

+1 nt Live and Learn Jul 2014 #48

My mom did this with my brother in the eary 60s too. sufrommich Jul 2014 #50

Apparently, those harnesses and leashes MineralMan Jul 2014 #54

Or parents who think their kids should be abe to walk sufrommich Jul 2014 #64

Yes, I've seen that, too, along with a parent MineralMan Jul 2014 #66

Leading strings,weren't they called? Eom catrose Jul 2014 #274

"We will stay here until pigs fly, HockeyMom Jul 2014 #51

The two are not mutually exclusive. n/t Ms. Toad Jul 2014 #56

I think I need to start using a leash for my son when we are out in public. mysuzuki2 Jul 2014 #52

My 3-year old on a leash enlightenment Jul 2014 #53

Excellent explanation. I was like your child. MineralMan Jul 2014 #58

Thank you. Warpy Jul 2014 #96

Someone extremely passive-agressinve doesn't like you: Starry Messenger Jul 2014 #55

That's stretching the definition of trolling to new heights. sufrommich Jul 2014 #67

If we locked all such threads, this place would be dead. lol Starry Messenger Jul 2014 #73

Heights? I thought it was a new low. (n/t) Lefta Dissenter Jul 2014 #76

I have a sneaking suspicion I know that alerter BainsBane Jul 2014 #77

So much depends on the individual kid. I had a friend who, at 3 y.o., caught a ferry ride Hekate Jul 2014 #62

Was her mom's hair completely gray after that? sufrommich Jul 2014 #70

Probably! Hekate Jul 2014 #82

offer to watch them while mom(s) shops Kali Jul 2014 #71

+ one zillion nt MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #101

I think leashes are wonderful. It shows the parent cares enough about the kid valerief Jul 2014 #79

Dogs are put on leashes to protect them from harm Mariana Jul 2014 #236

+1 gollygee Jul 2014 #242

No, no. It is to dehumanize them. Live and Learn Jul 2014 #268

+1 smirkymonkey Jul 2014 #290

I'm OK with leashes. All it takes is a brief moment of inattention and the kid(s) could be gone. nt RKP5637 Jul 2014 #80

They are useful in situations like that. aikoaiko Jul 2014 #83

My mother in law JustAnotherGen Jul 2014 #85

One of my earliest memories Cirque du So-What Jul 2014 #87

My son got away from me one time when he was about 4 steve2470 Jul 2014 #88

IMNHO.... nothing wrong with it whistler162 Jul 2014 #89

our experience - - Faryn Balyncd Jul 2014 #90

I've seen it since the 1950s Warpy Jul 2014 #95

Some kids really do need leashes! Quantess Jul 2014 #99

Yep�I remember the glares mindfulNJ Jul 2014 #103

Is this another damn appreciation thread? Gormy Cuss Jul 2014 #104

pet peeve> kids running around unattended or worse just ignored (The Unleashed) lunasun Jul 2014 #106

I think people need to worry less about how others parent their kids, so long as the children are MADem Jul 2014 #108

Pretty much my thought. The video of that mom dragging her kid by a leash, though.... moriah Jul 2014 #116

There are always dumb parents--and sometimes, kids can be irritating and young parents MADem Jul 2014 #120

Better safe than sorry. City Lights Jul 2014 #119

I always laugh greytdemocrat Jul 2014 #121

Yeah, I used to sit there and judge people's parenting choices without knowing their situation too. Butterbean Jul 2014 #122

Beaut! MerryBlooms Jul 2014 #151

My grandson has high-functioning autism & I got him a backpack leash after the 1st trip out in ... ebayfool Jul 2014 #189

My younger nephew preferred his leash to a stroller. politicat Jul 2014 #123

It is all fun and games Kurska Jul 2014 #127

I'm astonished by the responses that are posted here, at DU. TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #128

I always watched my son like a hawk when I went out, except for the one time I did not... steve2470 Jul 2014 #129

And, in retrospect, each time you would now harness him? nt TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #136

I might steve2470 Jul 2014 #138

My two were, and with proper skills that burden was removed and the children will benefit later on. TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #140

sincerely, I'm glad you were able to find that solution nt steve2470 Jul 2014 #145

It requires about 2-3 weeks of change, to all family members. Simple tricks and methods. TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #148

I am glad you learned how to manage your children without continuing to verbally abuse them. However uppityperson Jul 2014 #150

What worked for me are industry standard best practices and works in most every home. TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #154

And I see everyone's situation as unique. It may have similarities, but still is unique. uppityperson Jul 2014 #160

Not in the grand scheme of things. TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #163

Mine was always very well behaved but I still used one. Live and Learn Jul 2014 #234

I think you are talking about much older children than I am. Boudica the Lyoness Jul 2014 #264

I've seen a first grader sporting a harness at my mall a couple of years back. TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #270

I had no idea that first graders were wearing reins. Boudica the Lyoness Jul 2014 #299

Wow. Butterbean Jul 2014 #130

Yep. TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #135

Sounds like those skills worked well for you & your 4 children. Faryn Balyncd Jul 2014 #177

They are almost unheard of in Metro NY/Philly. What makes this area different? TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #185

Some circumstances may be unique to a particular child or family: Faryn Balyncd Jul 2014 #203

That was a much different time. TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #221

As a general rule 'leashes' should not be used in congested areas. Boudica the Lyoness Jul 2014 #141

With adaptive parenting skills, the easy way out is without having to use a leash or a stroller. nt TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #142

I'm not sure what you meant. Boudica the Lyoness Jul 2014 #261

Folks up my way don't use leashes. I maintained complete control using... TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #262

when a kid starts pulling too hard on a leash do you give it a little tug tug? snooper2 Jul 2014 #287

Jury results pintobean Jul 2014 #143

Thanks Pintobean. I knew it would get flagged since I challenged parental behavior. TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #146

I was not on the jury but I would have avebury Jul 2014 #166

As a single parent, I took my kids everywhere. TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #173

Just because the use of leashes avebury Jul 2014 #186

Distress and Quiet Humiliation are two different things. TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #193

Having a toddler connected to a parent by a strap is not "quiet humiliation" in most cases. uppityperson Jul 2014 #200

"Quiet humiliation" avebury Jul 2014 #206

The whole family isn't portrayed well. TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #212

You continue to judge without knowledge of the facts and what toddler could perceive uppityperson Jul 2014 #220

Which facts are they? I have seen NO justification for them, other than parent's needs. TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #222

Use of a leash isn't humiliating, brow beating, or being told they're stupid or lazy gollygee Jul 2014 #239

Just because you chose to handle it that way gollygee Jul 2014 #219

The kid is 'happier' on the leash, because that's the alternate option presented to them. nt TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #224

Not all kids respond to simple corrective behavioral techniques the same gollygee Jul 2014 #237

Our second challenged us. The youngest challenged authority at all levels - all the time. TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #243

Yeah but the thing is gollygee Jul 2014 #245

You act like you are helpless and have no control over your kids at all. TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #249

She was 2 years old. gollygee Jul 2014 #251

...and she overpowered your hand. TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #253

No I wasn't distracted gollygee Jul 2014 #254

I'm sorry. I would have bent down, redirected her anger, and if that failed picked her up. TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #257

I did not lose attentiveness gollygee Jul 2014 #258

Our toddler was happy free range too, even as cars SCREECHED TO A STOP to save her life Faryn Balyncd Jul 2014 #283

Aisles, not isles. MrsMatt Jul 2014 #210

A dropped key when typing invokes an English critique. TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #229

There is nothing dehumanizing about a leash gollygee Jul 2014 #218

Maybe it's some kind of urban evolutionary thing... hunter Jul 2014 #225

Could be. nt TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #230

Here's an idea... pipi_k Jul 2014 #226

There are several categories of child behavior, each requires slightly different methods, but.. TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #240

OK, I was hoping for a solution for pipi_k Jul 2014 #291

That is a solution. You shouldn't be such a defeatist. TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #307

LOL laundry_queen Jul 2014 #297

LOL? You obviously have young kids. TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #306

No, my older 2 kids are now teens laundry_queen Jul 2014 #312

A patient answer .... Hekate Jul 2014 #316

I assume you find diapers vile, dehumanizing and inexcusable too? Live and Learn Jul 2014 #228

Oh, the Quiet Humiliation of toddlers in diapers. If only the parents went to a coach and counseling uppityperson Jul 2014 #232

A toddler is between one and three. Many kids are in leashes until they are well past 5. TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #246

I've only seen them with toddlers gollygee Jul 2014 #248

Because in NY/NJ/Eastern PA, they aren't used. What's different in less congested areas? TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #252

I am talking about toddlers. Stop telling me I am pretending, stop insulting me and assuming uppityperson Jul 2014 #250

I see more than toddlers using them, so it's not just toddlers that have leashes. TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #256

The vast majority, including me, are writing about toddlers. If you want to include older kids, uppityperson Jul 2014 #267

trumad was referring to 4 & 5 year-olds too. Also, toddlers congesting the floor of a busy mall? TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #272

You didn't what age Trumad was referring to until right before your last post. Live and Learn Jul 2014 #276

Try again. Bee my post at 11:35 PM, versus Trumad's 12:14AM post. nt TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #305

I thought you said they aren't used in your area? Live and Learn Jul 2014 #269

I said in 20 years I've seen them used about 6 times. nt TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #271

And it is pretty repugnant to read your intolerance Ms. Toad Jul 2014 #247

Perform a Critical Read of that post. TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #259

You know exactly what you were implying - Ms. Toad Jul 2014 #282

+++++++ uppityperson Jul 2014 #288

I do know, and your assessment is completely wrong. TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #308

And it continues. Ms. Toad Jul 2014 #313

I had a harness (I'm 60) when I was little and so did my sons Boudica the Lyoness Jul 2014 #134

This thread isn't going to work TBF Jul 2014 #137

When I was a toddler, my mom had a white leather harness LibertyLover Jul 2014 #139

My daughter was a toddler when James Bulger was abducted and murdered... Violet_Crumble Jul 2014 #147

Tell me about it. Octafish Jul 2014 #149

I wore a harness and leash... TeeYiYi Jul 2014 #170

Their kids. They can do whatever they want. bigwillq Jul 2014 #183

It seems no matter what one mrs_p Jul 2014 #191

I'm with you, Trumad. cheapdate Jul 2014 #199

That was probably in the days when avebury Jul 2014 #209

Actually, it wasn't in the "old days". cheapdate Jul 2014 #235

I think that a lot of problems develop when avebury Jul 2014 #244

Kinda bothers me too... AngryOldDem Jul 2014 #207

Both are abjections of parental responsibility, whatever is easier for the 'adult'. TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #227

I love your posts in this thread trumad Jul 2014 #281

Hypothetical situation in which pipi_k Jul 2014 #292

Well, you know, "supervision takes effort" uppityperson Jul 2014 #294

Hah! pipi_k Jul 2014 #296

I've been there too, as a single parent. Stop making parenting so difficult. It isn't. nt TheBlackAdder Jul 2014 #309

Yep. I agree. AngryOldDem Jul 2014 #300

Good for them ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jul 2014 #217

I would not say anything unless I know the whole story. RandySF Jul 2014 #255

Trumad, about how old were the kids? gollygee Jul 2014 #260

trumad has not replied to any comments in this thread. NYC_SKP Jul 2014 #265

My apologies for that. trumad Jul 2014 #279

4 to 5 trumad Jul 2014 #266

Well they are grown now--- trumad Jul 2014 #280

I admit I strolled through quickly Silver Swan Jul 2014 #263

In other news, trumad is back. n/t flvegan Jul 2014 #273

Leashes, strollers whatever the case, rudolph the red Jul 2014 #275

leashes are OK DBoon Jul 2014 #277

I would rather see a kid on a leash than a kid struck by a car Kalidurga Jul 2014 #278

Plus the kid hit by a car... pipi_k Jul 2014 #293

that almost happened to me Kalidurga Jul 2014 #317

I usually hope the parents are doing the correct thing. I mean, some children... BlueJazz Jul 2014 #295

We HAD to restrain my sister with a littlemissmartypants Jul 2014 #298

I've never seen that before.. 2banon Jul 2014 #302

Orlando trumad Jul 2014 #303

Oh yeah.. security. never know when some "stand your ground" nut job will decide to 2banon Jul 2014 #304

I think I was among the first generation if parents using leashes (my kirks are both in their )30s left is right Jul 2014 #310