General Discussion

wcast

(595 posts)

167. Great quote! You are so right.

Mon Jul 14, 2014, 06:58 AM

Jul 2014

I was going to add more but luckily ran out of time as, like you said, it wouldn't matter. I spent ten years teaching adjudicated youth and that was one of the first lessons I learned in discussing any subject. They would pick one point they thought they could win, no matter how trivial, and hammer that point until you refute it, and then go onto another without missing a beat. I learned to stay on point real quick and it's helped me no matter who I debate.

The other tactic is to put others on the defensive. I noticed that many who tried to defend the OP got stuck defending the narrative put in place by the detractors, so even the ones who wanted to further the discussion got sucked into talking about the literal definition of racism.

I'll have to say I was surprised by how quickly this devolved into an argument about how whites suffer racism too, but I shouldn't have been. Here is an interesting article on how white fear of becoming a minority triggers a rightward political swing. http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/04/10/studies-show-whites-made-conservative-fears-becoming-racial-minority/

Cheers.

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Why Reverse Racism Isn't Real [View all] PeaceNikki Jul 2014 OP

So these riots were not racist then? Kurska Jul 2014 #1

Click the link and keep reading. PeaceNikki Jul 2014 #4

I have no idea where you got the idea there had to be a "system" of racism for it to be racism. Kurska Jul 2014 #5

Then perhaps take a cue from the article and listen and learn. PeaceNikki Jul 2014 #6

I don't think your article is a more credible source for the definition of words than the dictionary Kurska Jul 2014 #7

yuck it up. I'm not sure what's so ROFL hilarious about asking people to listen and learn PeaceNikki Jul 2014 #9

Empathy for what? Claiming that certain actions aren't racist, because of skin color of the doer? Kurska Jul 2014 #13

It sure isn't funny... Hofbrau Jul 2014 #104

The is only one "brand" of racism ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2014 #113

I'm sure Native Americans are on your side ryan_cats Jul 2014 #126

I'm pretty sure you think that snark is on point ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2014 #132

Native Americans are "people of color" PeaceNikki Jul 2014 #133

I don't think your article is a more credible source for the definition of words than the dictionary AlbertCat Jul 2014 #28

Actually ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2014 #64

The author made clear in context that racism was being defined in this piece as institutional Gormy Cuss Jul 2014 #90

Very true and Sadly, also, very true ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2014 #115

Wish I could rec a post wryter2000 Jul 2014 #117

The author made clear in context that racism was being defined in this piece as institutional AlbertCat Jul 2014 #136

Yes you did. Gormy Cuss Jul 2014 #143

So linguists are a more credible source for a definition ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2014 #53

Well, first off linguists don't write dictionaries. Lexicographers do. Kurska Jul 2014 #61

You are correct, Lexicographers not Linguists ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2014 #67

They don't agree with it, because that isn't how the word is used by vast majority of people. Kurska Jul 2014 #69

Well ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2014 #79

I love how you ignored the entire middle part of my post. Which was the substance of my argument. Kurska Jul 2014 #86

"the vast majority of people do not agree with the definition of racism you're advocating. " alp227 Jul 2014 #105

And, "the vast majority of people" haven't studied ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2014 #118

From here on out war is only defined as a state of conflict... Hofbrau Jul 2014 #123

Jesus - what kind of response is that? el_bryanto Jul 2014 #150

So what is the word, then, for systemic, institutional and pervasive oppression and discrimination Bluenorthwest Jul 2014 #11

I'm not sure, but I agree. PeaceNikki Jul 2014 #12

Yes I do have a valid point. Here's the thing, if any individual expresses animus Bluenorthwest Jul 2014 #16

Yep, racist whites in South Africa are just as reprehensible as racist whites in the USA, Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #37

Black control in South Africa if you can call it that, has existed for a hot minute if that? politicaljunkie41910 Jul 2014 #57

20+ years, actually. Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #78

Not to quibble; but ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2014 #62

Yep, that's my point. Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #75

Actually, the refining of definitions ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2014 #59

You note that I posed a question, which went unanswered. Bluenorthwest Jul 2014 #189

I think I touched on it here ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2014 #190

I love this post man, and I commented on it upthread, I am behind the times today.... Bluenorthwest Jul 2014 #193

Just as you stated in your OP, everytime one tries to have a conversation about racism politicaljunkie41910 Jul 2014 #41

This one started in the OP... Hofbrau Jul 2014 #108

So how exactly are we white people disadvantaged or oppressed in American society? nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #137

The painfully obvious point... Hofbrau Jul 2014 #161

I just don't like seeing people use "Racism goes both ways!" as an excuse for false equivalencies. nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #163

Likes and dislikes don't play into the equation... Hofbrau Jul 2014 #164

What "current bad behavior" would that be? Other than individuals being assholes? nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #165

I would suggest that excusing racist behavior... Hofbrau Jul 2014 #187

I don't see specific examples of that, but I will agree that rudeness and unkindness shouldn't be nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #195

Fascinating verbal gerrymandering. What's it for? DirkGently Jul 2014 #97

Racism is the privileging of one racial group over another. But people of any race can play into it. nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #138

No. Racism is racial animus of any kind. Institutional racism DirkGently Jul 2014 #148

The problem is people use false equivalencies to obscure who is actually impacted by racism. nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #149

That's true and a fine point. It does not, DirkGently Jul 2014 #151

"the idea that it's really okay for anyone outside the dominant cultural group to BE hateful and nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #152

Anyone can be racist. It serves no purpose to pretend otherwise. DirkGently Jul 2014 #155

"...pretending individual racial animus magically exists only in the dominant group." nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #158

Some folks want to have it both ways AgingAmerican Jul 2014 #154

Actually we do have a word for number 2 Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #177

and please know I'm right there beside you every time I see it happening here PeaceNikki Jul 2014 #14

Oh I know that. Bluenorthwest Jul 2014 #31

As best I can tell ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2014 #54

I'm wondering along with you the relevance and value of what the author is trying to do here. stevenleser Jul 2014 #162

Nobody is saying the bias can't be bias gollygee Jul 2014 #174

Maybe that is not what they are trying to say, but it has that connotation. It's dismissive. stevenleser Jul 2014 #175

I really wish someone would explore this further ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2014 #185

Such a term would be found by LGBT people of color, women in particular I'd guess Bluenorthwest Jul 2014 #192

As I typically defer to the LGBT community on matters of sexuality ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2014 #194

You have a strong case. sulphurdunn Jul 2014 #42

I can recognize when someone is looking for a fight rather than an honest discussion. PeaceNikki Jul 2014 #43

+1 ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2014 #121

And then it just turns into a snark-fest to see who can get the nastiest dig in. PeaceNikki Jul 2014 #125

+1000000 Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #179

Yet, liberals claim to value scholarship ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2014 #181

ironclad case is more like it heaven05 Jul 2014 #55

But if the fundamental underlying assumption of the article can't be questioned mythology Jul 2014 #144

Oh Kurska, don't you know that language is meaningless Android3.14 Jul 2014 #27

I have never stated, nor did the article, that "only white people are capable of bigotry" PeaceNikki Jul 2014 #29

"dismissing the systematic and institutional factors of oppressed groups" no one is doing this Kurska Jul 2014 #63

The poorly made point is that only white people are capable of racism... Hofbrau Jul 2014 #109

Actually, You've hit on an important point ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2014 #124

According to this JustAnotherGen Jul 2014 #34

lol PeaceNikki Jul 2014 #38

I couldn't resist JustAnotherGen Jul 2014 #73

Again, why is your definition more valid than the definition found in every single dictionary? n/t Kurska Jul 2014 #52

See post #35 JustAnotherGen Jul 2014 #70

Dictionaries only reflect common usage. gollygee Jul 2014 #74

Hee hee. So apropos. n/t JimDandy Jul 2014 #72

Oh great ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2014 #127

Yeppers! JustAnotherGen Jul 2014 #145

And the follow-up Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #180

Yep and we need to keep JustAnotherGen Jul 2014 #182

The OP article did not 'make that up'. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #99

Sociologists define two types of racism AgingAmerican Jul 2014 #156

You hit number 4 Capt. Obvious Jul 2014 #173

No ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2014 #48

Thank you. Corrected. PeaceNikki Jul 2014 #50

So, why is your definition of racism better than the one in the dictionary? n/t Kurska Jul 2014 #51

Not MY definition ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2014 #128

You never answered my post up thread. n/t Kurska Jul 2014 #129

Which one? The one where you answered ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2014 #135

No I asked you why the definition was actually better than the previous one. Kurska Jul 2014 #147

The idea that racism is bigotry + institutional/structural power ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2014 #169

This ^^^^^^ jen63 Jul 2014 #146

I think the movie JustAnotherGen Jul 2014 #83

Oh look, it's Kurska Scootaloo Jul 2014 #131

Oh boy, that person with the pony avatar Kurska Jul 2014 #188

Are you arguing some kind of "tit for tat," or what? nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #142

Rosenbaum was targeted because of his minority status (Orthodox Jew) REP Jul 2014 #171

It was racism, but not reverse racism Bad Thoughts Jul 2014 #186

I agree that there is no such thing as "reverse racism", and never use the term myself. Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #2

getting real old heaven05 Jul 2014 #49

This message was self-deleted by its author alp227 Jul 2014 #100

Except white people (at least in the U.S.) have never been systematically oppressed or discriminated nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #139

Both racism and sexism are systemic. ananda Jul 2014 #3

externalized by orders from above reddread Jul 2014 #22

"...a backlash projection invented by whites who don't want to look inward..." nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #140

It Really Legitimizes a Point of View On the Road Jul 2014 #8

the article is really addressing institutional racism cali Jul 2014 #21

"White people are mean" is a racist statement. merrily Jul 2014 #10

there is no reverse institutional racism against white people cali Jul 2014 #19

I am assuming that your claim only applies to the USA? (nt) Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #39

yes. cali Jul 2014 #111

I think you could suggest a number of other countries Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #183

We know who it isnt reddread Jul 2014 #15

Racism and sexism are to "affirmative action". . . DinahMoeHum Jul 2014 #17

exactly. there is no reverse institutional racism cali Jul 2014 #18

Please be careful, Nikki Shemp Howard Jul 2014 #20

I think the larger point isn't the semantics of the word, but the general idea that PeaceNikki Jul 2014 #23

Simply using the term 'reverse racism' is an acknowledgement by the user that Gormy Cuss Jul 2014 #24

+1000 smirkymonkey Jul 2014 #92

People often confuse a racist with malaise Jul 2014 #25

Are the dictionaries wrong? Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #33

It's possible JustAnotherGen Jul 2014 #35

+1000 heaven05 Jul 2014 #45

Why yes, they are. Starry Messenger Jul 2014 #66

Great tumblr post there. gollygee Jul 2014 #76

That's hysterical! JustAnotherGen Jul 2014 #80

lol, thanks for that. PeaceNikki Jul 2014 #84

haha, that's perfect. nt laundry_queen Jul 2014 #106

WHOA. Noah Webster was "a hardxcore american nationalist and christian"? Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #122

Like you'd care. Starry Messenger Jul 2014 #130

fucking GREAT!!!!! heaven05 Jul 2014 #170

NO - a racist does believe in that doctrine malaise Jul 2014 #56

no, but they're too shallow for a full understanding of society. alp227 Jul 2014 #101

Racism is practiced by racists AgingAmerican Jul 2014 #157

Thank you PeaceNikki for trying to educate people today in a concise, thorough and rationally politicaljunkie41910 Jul 2014 #26

when white male Christians start yelling about "reverse racism" mountain grammy Jul 2014 #30

Reverse racism.... davidthegnome Jul 2014 #32

Tim Wise wrote a great piece about it that he republished during the Trayvon Martin murder PeaceNikki Jul 2014 #36

There's a lot in there, but right here's the answer to claims of reverse racism: Iggo Jul 2014 #40

thank you heaven05 Jul 2014 #44

I truly and honestly strive to be a better ally to PoC, LGBT and the poor. PeaceNikki Jul 2014 #46

Of course there is no reverse racism, A Simple Game Jul 2014 #47

one is a racist taking advantage of heaven05 Jul 2014 #60

I think there's a lot of arguing sulphurdunn Jul 2014 #58

rarely unintentional heaven05 Jul 2014 #65

I agree JustAnotherGen Jul 2014 #88

I believe racism has enjoyed a resurgence in this country due to the demonization of Dustlawyer Jul 2014 #68

Don't apologize. PeaceNikki Jul 2014 #71

Excellent shared experience JustAnotherGen Jul 2014 #91

I have NEVER understood how anyone can believe in "reverse racism" ismnotwasm Jul 2014 #77

not really qazplm Jul 2014 #89

If you take racism as a concept ismnotwasm Jul 2014 #110

+1. The term "reverse racism" is absurd (nt) Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #120

Same people who believe in the War on Christmas geek tragedy Jul 2014 #172

INSTITUTIONAL Racism is systemic. Individual Racism is, well, individual. KittyWampus Jul 2014 #81

I think the dictionary definition has been addressed well upthread. PeaceNikki Jul 2014 #82

You are being pedantic. There is great benefit in pointing out institutional racism is KittyWampus Jul 2014 #87

This is why it seems weird to me to use the word "racist" as a noun at all gollygee Jul 2014 #94

I do not believe all racism has to come from a position of power. Jenoch Jul 2014 #85

PoC - People of Color... Because white people are colorless. gtar100 Jul 2014 #93

what's your preference? are you familiar with the etymology of the phrase? PeaceNikki Jul 2014 #134

I love how people want to redefine racism. area51 Jul 2014 #95

And I dislike the way so many are so stuck on the term/word that that ignore the larger PeaceNikki Jul 2014 #96

This thread is depressing. boston bean Jul 2014 #168

It truly is. I expected some deflection/diversion, but not as much as I see. PeaceNikki Jul 2014 #178

I think that the problem is the title. FBaggins Jul 2014 #184

And there's number 4 again in this thread Capt. Obvious Jul 2014 #176

Racism exists when someone AgingAmerican Jul 2014 #98

In my experience people with weak arguments tend to debate semantics wcast Jul 2014 #102

You nailed it JustAnotherGen Jul 2014 #166

Great quote! You are so right. wcast Jul 2014 #167

She lost it in the second paragraph... Hofbrau Jul 2014 #103

It is a self serving definition AgingAmerican Jul 2014 #114

there's no such thing as "reverse racism" TorchTheWitch Jul 2014 #107

+1 (nt) Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #112

I can't believe we still have to discuss this wryter2000 Jul 2014 #116

No shit ismnotwasm Jul 2014 #119

+1. Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #160

Racism is a individual trait. Takket Jul 2014 #141

There is no "reverse racism" because the reverse of racism isn't someone else being a bigot too. TheKentuckian Jul 2014 #153

"I think asians are harder working and smarter than whites" is edgy, cheeky and fun. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #159

Bugs, berries, and boats WatermelonRat Jul 2014 #191