General Discussion

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)

133. I agree that the problems we face are intrinsic to Capitalism.

Sat Jul 19, 2014, 11:40 PM

Jul 2014

Exploitation and wealth accumulation are features, not bugs.

I don't think that posters here think the problem is unique to Obama, however. Quite the opposite - there is an identifiable trend that didn't quite begin with Reagan, but certainly kicked into high gear with his election and has continued until the present day. Obama is simply the most recent President to pick up Reagan's torch and carry it forward eight years. Nothing unique about that at all - Clinton did it as well.

The frustration arises because of the widespread notion among Democrats that this is inevitable and unavoidable, and if we try and change this trajectory we are undermining Democratic progress.

As to our disagreement regarding the function of the state, I believe that your position is one of cynicism - that despite flowery declarations of liberty and freedom, our country was intended to be a Capitalist paradise and thus we should expect our Presidents to serve Capitalist interests as their primary constituency. While I agree that we have been watching this situation develop for the last 40 years, I don't agree that it is a situation that cannot be changed. Perpetuating the status quo, even under duress, is a Conservative ideal. I'm a Progressive - I believe that we must change for the better.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

171 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Some Defend-President-Obama-no-matter-what-folks here will do anything to divert, [View all] cali Jul 2014 OP

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2014 #1

No, not desperate at all. As I said, I'll support him where I can cali Jul 2014 #2

Just curious, but where DO you think you can support this president? Hekate Jul 2014 #4

I have supported him, Hekate. I support him on Russia. I don't think his options are cali Jul 2014 #8

Is my recitation of criticisms required? I don't sing hosannas in his name, but ... Hekate Jul 2014 #22

+1000 or so ... BlueMTexpat Jul 2014 #26

Add another +1000 or so from me as well Separation Jul 2014 #77

+ a whole bunch more. nolabear Jul 2014 #110

+1000 more, and an in-your-face to our resident chronic Obama trashers. Paladin Jul 2014 #149

Well said. Andy823 Jul 2014 #157

Post removed Post removed Jul 2014 #7

what racist memes have I EVER used? NONE, pal. cali Jul 2014 #11

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2014 #20

+1....geez Enthusiast Jul 2014 #82

You Know, Ma'am, On Democratic Underground The Magistrate Jul 2014 #3

+1000! n/t ColesCountyDem Jul 2014 #5

Yes? Does that mean I shouldn't note what I did? cali Jul 2014 #6

It Means Your Quest Is a Bit Quixotic, Ma'am The Magistrate Jul 2014 #10

Actually, it's not quixotic. A good portion of DUers agree with me. cali Jul 2014 #13

AppealTo Numbers, Ma'am? You Might As Well Try Appeal To Authority The Magistrate Jul 2014 #18

Oh look! sibelian Jul 2014 #33

The OP doesn't H2O Man Jul 2014 #96

This message was self-deleted by its author lostincalifornia Jul 2014 #151

Since the author H2O Man Jul 2014 #152

This message was self-deleted by its author lostincalifornia Jul 2014 #153

for fun H2O Man Jul 2014 #154

This message was self-deleted by its author lostincalifornia Jul 2014 #163

Post removed Post removed Jul 2014 #29

I wouldn't mind being called a "sir" or "ma'am" but I do object to being called betsuni Jul 2014 #43

Shit. And just when I was going to address you as Cupcake. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #83

Very well said. Puglover Jul 2014 #47

I Am Not From Pennsylvania, Ma'am The Magistrate Jul 2014 #52

Maybe it means you shouldn't take "these folks" so personally Hekate Jul 2014 #12

lol. cali Jul 2014 #15

It was a non-hostile edit. Hekate Jul 2014 #16

that's how i feel , i see enough attacks on the President from all over the place JI7 Jul 2014 #9

my exact strategy nt steve2470 Jul 2014 #27

The president is of no consequence whatsoever beyond what he is able to achieve for the populace. sibelian Jul 2014 #34

of course it matters , it's why some are banned from this site JI7 Jul 2014 #42

Being banned from this site is also of no consequence. sibelian Jul 2014 #146

i'm referring to use of this site JI7 Jul 2014 #148

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2014 #17

No modern American president was ever going to be perfect... Orsino Jul 2014 #31

+1 treestar Jul 2014 #61

The implication of saying "underground". dfgrbac Jul 2014 #67

the site was started because of the 2000 election being taken away from the establishment Dem Gore JI7 Jul 2014 #132

It's crazy how that works. Democrats supporting Democrats is not controversial. tridim Jul 2014 #79

I support Obama AgingAmerican Jul 2014 #136

Should Democrats embrace Republican values after election? MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #103

It's a matter of HOW he is defended.....and criticized Armstead Jul 2014 #155

Is there a point? A specific issue? BainsBane Jul 2014 #14

Cold But Fair, Ma'am The Magistrate Jul 2014 #19

Good grief, Benito! Divernan Jul 2014 #38

Perhaps if you had ever bothered to read Mussolini BainsBane Jul 2014 #60

Right. H2O Man Jul 2014 #100

+ a gazillion. nt Mojorabbit Jul 2014 #138

"The function of the state is to serve capital" I think that statement needs modifying. KittyWampus Jul 2014 #45

The function of the state under capitalism is to serve capital BainsBane Jul 2014 #59

^^^ THIS ^^^ BumRushDaShow Jul 2014 #46

I agree, and the continual fixation on the Presidency BainsBane Jul 2014 #62

Whenever one tries to explain how to live in a reality-based world BumRushDaShow Jul 2014 #63

This. Skidmore Jul 2014 #116

It's not a "fantasy world"....You are preaching total submission and surrender Armstead Jul 2014 #158

Sorry but no one is doing anything of the sort BumRushDaShow Jul 2014 #160

I am well aware of that -- Its your dismissive attitude about it..... Armstead Jul 2014 #161

To address your assertions BumRushDaShow Jul 2014 #166

Thank you for your thoughtful resonse Armstead Jul 2014 #167

Lemme see what I can do with this BumRushDaShow Jul 2014 #169

I agree with much of what you wrote. Perhaps the difference is in tempement. Armstead Jul 2014 #170

I do agree with much of what you wrote BumRushDaShow Jul 2014 #171

Your posts in this thread have almost made the darn thing worth reading Number23 Jul 2014 #124

Agree 100% betsuni Jul 2014 #129

Thanks BainsBane Jul 2014 #131

I agree, it is simplistic thinking treestar Jul 2014 #106

I agree, but it is sad. PowerToThePeople Jul 2014 #48

I see BainsBane Jul 2014 #64

Your center paragraph is literally the heart of the matter Hekate Jul 2014 #65

I'm sure you are right BainsBane Jul 2014 #70

I myself am an "authoritarian," or so I've been told. My friends would be so surprised. Hekate Jul 2014 #71

You said it treestar Jul 2014 #107

Yes indeed. The obstructive, do-nothing Congress we have is a fine example of Skidmore Jul 2014 #150

Inexperienced negotiating with Republicans? Enthusiast Jul 2014 #85

The Bush Tax cuts ARE gone. BumRushDaShow Jul 2014 #93

I agree BainsBane Jul 2014 #104

Well said! Spazito Jul 2014 #97

Exactly. nt DanTex Jul 2014 #105

I reject the point outright that the purpose of our government is to serve capital BrotherIvan Jul 2014 #72

Your not, Phlem Jul 2014 #80

Blue Linky Phlem Jul 2014 #81

I had to look at my screen to see where I was? BrotherIvan Jul 2014 #115

I hear that! Phlem Jul 2014 #119

FFS BainsBane Jul 2014 #123

No, what's happening is you don't understand what you are reading BainsBane Jul 2014 #122

FFS, Oh I don't understand what I'm reading. Phlem Jul 2014 #127

Obvioulsy not BainsBane Jul 2014 #142

I don't know why I've waited so long. Phlem Jul 2014 #145

I agree, BrotherIvan. LuvNewcastle Jul 2014 #87

It has always been meant to check capital vs the rights of the people BrotherIvan Jul 2014 #112

Plus one a thousand times. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #88

That's an elegant way of putting it, Enthusiast. LuvNewcastle Jul 2014 #94

Correct BrotherIvan Jul 2014 #111

I'm with you, BrotherIvan. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #140

My point is that is the function of the state under capitalism BainsBane Jul 2014 #125

Capitalism and individual rights go hand in hand BainsBane Jul 2014 #128

If one considers individual Liberty vs. Monarchy, Maedhros Jul 2014 #134

Liberalism BainsBane Jul 2014 #144

While I appreciate your trying to give ample evidence for your argument BrotherIvan Jul 2014 #137

I have no problem with criticizing this or any other administration BainsBane Jul 2014 #143

It is a matter of degrees. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #84

Your entire premise is false, and the fact that you present it as accepted truth points to Maedhros Jul 2014 #108

You buy into the national mythology BainsBane Jul 2014 #113

I agree that the problems we face are intrinsic to Capitalism. Maedhros Jul 2014 #133

Oh, baby! "I'm a Progressive - I believe that we must change for the better." Enthusiast Jul 2014 #141

This makes for very interesting reading. Thanks for giving me different words to think about it. Hekate Jul 2014 #139

Did you ever hear of balance? Armstead Jul 2014 #156

Then there is the incredible disconnect between rhetoric of members here BainsBane Jul 2014 #21

This thread has turned into an interesting discussion, but I'll have to return tomorrow... Hekate Jul 2014 #25

The 1 Percent's economic interests do NOT equal the nation's economic interests. Divernan Jul 2014 #35

There is nothing more ironic that when someone responds to what is clearly BainsBane Jul 2014 #58

PLUS ONE! Enthusiast Jul 2014 #90

Entirely non-responsive to my point BainsBane Jul 2014 #118

You noticed that too also. Puzzledtraveller Jul 2014 #89

That they proceed to look down on those less privileged BainsBane Jul 2014 #101

I completely agree. He has posted one corporate shill after another to head critical NC_Nurse Jul 2014 #23

I fully expect those same people to support our next Republican president obxhead Jul 2014 #24

Apparently, they do, they just haven't changed affiliation BrotherIvan Jul 2014 #73

In my humble opinion, there are two distinct types that behave as you've described .... Scuba Jul 2014 #28

+1. nt OnyxCollie Jul 2014 #30

+2 L0oniX Jul 2014 #74

+3 leftstreet Jul 2014 #76

+1! Enthusiast Jul 2014 #91

Agree...it's my experience, also...of both.. KoKo Jul 2014 #117

you da man. Phlem Jul 2014 #120

The thing is if you want to see criticism BlueMTexpat Jul 2014 #32

Newsflash!DU is about primaries, Congress and State Houses as well Divernan Jul 2014 #37

All too true. BlueMTexpat Jul 2014 #39

I will echo this post Cosmocat Jul 2014 #55

Links please. Kingofalldems Jul 2014 #36

2.5 more years of non-specific whining predicted. JoePhilly Jul 2014 #40

some think posting on this site makes them an activist JI7 Jul 2014 #41

We ARE activists-witness NBC caving & returning Mohyeldin to Gaza! Divernan Jul 2014 #49

Guilty and prooud of it! mfcorey1 Jul 2014 #44

Its pervasive now. It is a hallmark of systems that turn authoritarian. woo me with science Jul 2014 #50

+1 L0oniX Jul 2014 #75

PLUS ONE! Enthusiast Jul 2014 #92

This board is plenty open for all POV's on Obama or any issue BeyondGeography Jul 2014 #51

you may be right when you criticize him bigtree Jul 2014 #53

The President works for us - not 840high Jul 2014 #54

Not for nothing, but this is not someone who lacks in people criticizing him Cosmocat Jul 2014 #56

Living in one of the most conservative districts in the country, conservaphobe Jul 2014 #57

There is no worse heresy than that the office sanctifies the holder of it. Lord Acton Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2014 #66

You've become a caricature. joshcryer Jul 2014 #68

Yes it has gotten worse. Andy823 Jul 2014 #164

Please see my reply to The Magistrate (reply #67) dfgrbac Jul 2014 #69

I like Obama except for one thing: he's trying to change the Wilberforce Law in order to Louisiana1976 Jul 2014 #78

It's a f****ng love affair, that's all it is. Puzzledtraveller Jul 2014 #86

I think we do have two small groups; one worships the man and the other group despises him. Rex Jul 2014 #95

And some will criticize him no matter what. I'm not talking about you, cali, pnwmom Jul 2014 #98

you should be krawhitham Jul 2014 #121

Some are so plastic H2O Man Jul 2014 #99

So what if they do? cheapdate Jul 2014 #102

And some ... NanceGreggs Jul 2014 #109

Very true. n/t countingbluecars Jul 2014 #114

And you do. aquart Jul 2014 #126

You can critisize President Obama all you want, but you are wasting your valuable time..... DrewFlorida Jul 2014 #130

I agree. Both left and right focus their blame and effort in the wrong place. CJCRANE Jul 2014 #135

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jul 2014 #147

Stop looking at individuals and understand the community as a whole. NCTraveler Jul 2014 #159

I can't speak for cali but.... Armstead Jul 2014 #162

"there is a reflexive resistance to ANY criticisms or suggestions for change" NCTraveler Jul 2014 #168

What about the "bash Obama no matter what" folks? Andy823 Jul 2014 #165