General Discussion

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)

74. I am a progressive and as you see from my signature banner, a strong supporter of Elizabeth

Sun Jul 20, 2014, 05:48 AM

Jul 2014

Warren, not of the third way Democrats.

Yes. Sometimes conservative, corporate Democrats pick fights with me. I don't take it personally. I view it as an opportunity to present good arguments to them for my point of view and hope that, as time goes by, they will become more progressive.

I see DU as a place where we all learn new things, among them new ways to talk about politics that bring people to understand our point of view and not just to call us out, label us as troublemakers and kick us off the website.

People do change their minds.

I am very encouraged by the fact that when Snowden first came forth with his revelations, a number of DUers attempted to denigrate his sacrifice and the importance of what he had done with all kinds of irrelevant criticisms. They also threw personal slurs at Greenwald.

Then came Greenwald's book (No Place to Hide). I hope everyone will read it. On page 179, Greenwald writes about some "Online Covert Action" techniques that the British GCHQ recommended. These were among files that Snowden found in the American NSA database. The document referred to the 4 D's: "Deny/Disrupt/Degrade/Deceive."

That is precisely what the critics of Snowden were doing to our discussions about the NSA spying on Americans.

Strangely, now that Greenwald's fascinating but frightening book has been published, most of the NSA apologists have disappeared from DU.

So, if you feel personally attacked by other DUers for expressing your views, don't let that stop you. And above all, do not become angry and do not respond with a personal attack. Certain DUers try to excite others to respond unwisely.

Just relax. Present your point of view calmly with faith that if it is right, it will be adopted or encouraged by others. And be open to learning from other DUers. Nobody is right all the time. In fact, being right is not the point on DU. Exchanging ideas is the point. We all need to remember that. It isn't even always about persuading others. It is more about being sure that your ideas are expressed so that others can understand them.

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Now I am confused about DU (a different answer to cali's OP) [View all] sadoldgirl Jul 2014 OP

With Citizens United - It Is Clear - Both Parties Are Owned By The Oligarchs, Corporations And Banks cantbeserious Jul 2014 #1

But don't fall into the false equivalency trap. ananda Jul 2014 #3

Not different enough so that we should not criticize the Dems and pull them back to the left. cui bono Jul 2014 #5

Who said that? creeksneakers2 Jul 2014 #55

Said what? cui bono Jul 2014 #69

Post # 5 creeksneakers2 Jul 2014 #71

Again, said what? Called criticizers names? I'm sure you've seen plenty of that. cui bono Jul 2014 #72

I am a progressive and as you see from my signature banner, a strong supporter of Elizabeth JDPriestly Jul 2014 #74

Great advice, JD. I hope people will take it to heart. LuvNewcastle Jul 2014 #77

The Third Way is it's own party, stealing the label of Democratic. L0oniX Jul 2014 #96

What a refreshingly sensible post, JEB Jul 2014 #102

+1! Enthusiast Jul 2014 #80

With Oligarchs, Corporations And Banks Owning And Controlling The Parties cantbeserious Jul 2014 #6

The question seems to be feathers or lead? Savannahmann Jul 2014 #36

Would it not be better for everyone in the Democratic Party sadoldgirl Jul 2014 #49

+1! "Who of those two built a stable and healthy middle class?" Enthusiast Jul 2014 #81

+ 1 - Matters Not Feathers Or Lead - Dead Is Dead - Bravo cantbeserious Jul 2014 #51

This bit right here... DeadLetterOffice Jul 2014 #53

A ton of feathers would not hold together; it would not crush you muriel_volestrangler Jul 2014 #75

But there is the rub. Savannahmann Jul 2014 #85

If you're willing to use the ACA figures from Avik Roy, Romney's healthcare advisor muriel_volestrangler Jul 2014 #90

Here's a report from CNBC Savannahmann Jul 2014 #100

The difference between "some small, some 16.6% increases" and "will double" is huge muriel_volestrangler Jul 2014 #104

Thank you. It seems the vogue here at DU to jump on the bandwagon condemning Obama. olegramps Jul 2014 #91

I htink it's more that many here know that the Dem party is center and that there is a real left cui bono Jul 2014 #114

Dems get the agenda through arikara Jul 2014 #110

What does "Citizens United" have to do with Democrats owned by "Oligarchs", Corps and Banks????? George II Jul 2014 #43

One Source For Unlimited Campaign Financing - Oligarchs, Corporations And Banks cantbeserious Jul 2014 #50

Gotta admit a big difference: FDR & JFK didn't need a Billion+ dollars to campaign for President. Amonester Jul 2014 #63

It seems like Dem blogs Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #2

There is a circle here. sadoldgirl Jul 2014 #34

Lot To Learn From 1930s Primaries billhicks76 Jul 2014 #112

+1 rec ^^^this^^^ L0oniX Jul 2014 #97

PBO has a long history of being elected by the left and then kissing the RW's A$$. When you Vincardog Jul 2014 #4

Could there be a way sadoldgirl Jul 2014 #7

The "teaparty" is a manufactured group. What we can do is Work for and elect REAL Progressives Vincardog Jul 2014 #10

Yes, I agree, but unfortunately sadoldgirl Jul 2014 #13

Primary him Vincardog Jul 2014 #14

A Udall in the West? no chance sadoldgirl Jul 2014 #17

How else can you pressure him to move to the LEFT? Vincardog Jul 2014 #18

He is already only one point away from a teaparty opponent in the polls. sadoldgirl Jul 2014 #21

That is probably because he is not far enough to the left. The voters can't tell he is any different Vincardog Jul 2014 #22

I suppose with our gun- and religious fanatics he may be the best to hope for. Sad. sadoldgirl Jul 2014 #27

So will you not vote for him then? kaiden Jul 2014 #78

Oh yes, I will though grudgingly. sadoldgirl Jul 2014 #99

Do you have a realistic alternative??? George II Jul 2014 #45

There are a lot of things they could do, but they require work and time. Such as... stevenleser Jul 2014 #66

I've been an officer of my local Democratic committee for more than ten years George II Jul 2014 #84

And? What have you done with that position? nt stevenleser Jul 2014 #108

What an officer of a Democratic committee does. George II Jul 2014 #109

Are you on trial here? cui bono Jul 2014 #113

Sometimes I think so... George II Jul 2014 #118

Paragraph or sentence breaks are your friend. former9thward Jul 2014 #8

Yep, because of the wall of text it was a tldr for me. eom MohRokTah Jul 2014 #9

Thank you very much, but English is not my first language.n/t sadoldgirl Jul 2014 #11

Totally understand. former9thward Jul 2014 #12

Thanks again, but it is hard now to change. And, yes, you are right! sadoldgirl Jul 2014 #15

Your English is fine. Jackpine Radical Jul 2014 #26

some of it is DU software hfojvt Jul 2014 #87

They defer to structure when they got nothing else. L0oniX Jul 2014 #93

When someone is criticizing your text blocks ..... marmar Jul 2014 #94

It's a little bit tough mindwalker_i Jul 2014 #38

Yes Roy Serohz Jul 2014 #16

Come visit us - TBF Jul 2014 #19

Thank you, that is a beautiful invitation, sadoldgirl Jul 2014 #20

I am in favor of anything that will help TBF Jul 2014 #23

Excellent post, thanks sadoldgirl. Scuba Jul 2014 #24

Thank you very much Scuba, sadoldgirl Jul 2014 #25

K&R. zeemike Jul 2014 #28

I regret that I can only rec this once. Curmudgeoness Jul 2014 #29

Thank you, but while I don't want to cause a problem sadoldgirl Jul 2014 #30

Causing problems is exactly what we need to do. F4lconF16 Jul 2014 #60

If you leave PowerToThePeople Jul 2014 #31

No apology needed sadoldgirl. Rant away... Tommymac Jul 2014 #32

Good post, thank you. Many are wondering what has happened to DU so you're not alone. sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #33

K/R x 100 840high Jul 2014 #35

I always felt like this place should stand for democratic ideals mindwalker_i Jul 2014 #37

PLUS ONE! Enthusiast Jul 2014 #82

+100,000,000 L0oniX Jul 2014 #92

Your thread is much appreciated locks Jul 2014 #39

Welcome to the FDR branch of DU Demeter Jul 2014 #40

The promises made during the 2008 Platform of PBO are not what we see today. DhhD Jul 2014 #41

The "Democratic Underground" often seems to be at odds with the party that bears the name. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2014 #42

There is also another side to this equation humbled_opinion Jul 2014 #44

One of the things President Obama has tried his hardest to get accomplished is the TPP Enthusiast Jul 2014 #83

+1 NealK Jul 2014 #116

I agree with your frustration. I think he had to do deals with the Devil, so to speak, to become Dustlawyer Jul 2014 #46

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Jul 2014 #47

Every Democrat felt like part of the underground during the Bush administration. pnwmom Jul 2014 #48

True.... Bobbie Jo Jul 2014 #52

Pardon me, but it was awfully easy for Democrats to criticize Bush, sadoldgirl Jul 2014 #54

I was responding to when you said this: pnwmom Jul 2014 #56

This: riqster Jul 2014 #64

Who says you can't criticize Obama? creeksneakers2 Jul 2014 #57

Thank you for a (to me) heartening post. Divernan Jul 2014 #58

Just ignore the small group of snarkers, that is their only purpose on DU. Rex Jul 2014 #59

I thank each and everyone for your input. sadoldgirl Jul 2014 #61

This place can get rather obsessed with itself at times. LuvNewcastle Jul 2014 #62

The jury system has made DU a MUCH less desirable to hang out. stillwaiting Jul 2014 #76

This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Jul 2014 #65

Why would you 'hope to get canned'? muriel_volestrangler Jul 2014 #73

If you think it's bad here ...try Discussionist. You can't even speak the truth there. L0oniX Jul 2014 #98

Yes open and honest criticism is the right way to get us where we need to go. airplaneman Jul 2014 #67

Thank you for questioning. snot Jul 2014 #68

We know we were hoodwinked. It has a slick speech, a pleasant smile, blkmusclmachine Jul 2014 #70

Kicked and recommended! Enthusiast Jul 2014 #79

I am also dismayed by the name calling and how easy it seems for people to post garbled non-logic. WCLinolVir Jul 2014 #86

A Democrat (big D) is the old guy sitting on a park bench and feeding pigeons. valerief Jul 2014 #88

Good analogy. It totally fits. LuvNewcastle Jul 2014 #101

Excellent post, sadoldgirl! Kermitt Gribble Jul 2014 #89

Your rant is very welcomed. L0oniX Jul 2014 #95

k&r polichick Jul 2014 #103

I really think there's no question that you can voice whatever viewpoint you have, we all can...and DesertDiamond Jul 2014 #105

underground, another word co-opted by entitled, courageless, gen-x hipsters whereisjustice Jul 2014 #106

thanks for the good rant lunatica Jul 2014 #107

Many of the critics come from third way, corporate think tanks. Ignore them, they will fail. grahamhgreen Jul 2014 #111

Note the current most active thread praising the administration. woo me with science Jul 2014 #115

K&R NealK Jul 2014 #117