General Discussion

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)

111. The bit of illogic I can get past is this:

Sun Jul 20, 2014, 11:16 PM

Jul 2014

I shouldn't be so heartless as to deny people their addictions.

I get that addictions are powerful. What I don't get is that I shouldn't place any value judgments on the addiction itself; I shouldn't criticize addictions that compel people to prioritize it over nutrition or heat.

Okay, I'm judging. I think that addictions are suboptimal ways to spend scarce resources, and when public funds are the source of those poverty-level incomes, I think that we should rethink the delivery mechanism to help assure that the help is achieving its intended purpose; nutrition, shelter, education.

Secondarily, I think more needs to be done to assure that the beneficiaries have the skills, tools and education to make reasonable choices... including more resources to quit addictions.

Failing that, I think they shouldn't be insulated from the consequences.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

111 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Heartbreaking....Life Below the Poverty Line in Troy, New York....pics [View all] one_voice Jul 2014 OP

3...2...1 til some assclown says 'well if they can afford smokes...' leftstreet Jul 2014 #1

How much is a pack of smokes in NY nowadays ? Bonx Jul 2014 #6

Price may be unknown if one receives them as a gift. LanternWaste Jul 2014 #99

Would you say that smoking contributes to their problems or mitigates them? lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #7

Does smoking contribute to Obama's problems or mitigate them? leftstreet Jul 2014 #12

Does the cost interfere with his ability to provide nutrition for Malia and Sasha? n/t lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #13

Taxpayers are meeting the nutritional needs of politicians n/t leftstreet Jul 2014 #15

Indeed. And when that form of public support is misspent I complain. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #17

That's good. I'm betting the DOD hears from you regularly leftstreet Jul 2014 #18

You'd win that bet. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #20

unless we plan to put the poor in camps so we can micromange there every move dembotoz Jul 2014 #26

We could send them free cigarettes Bonx Jul 2014 #30

We're all a product of our environment. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #31

Yeah but not everyone is you... SomethingFishy Jul 2014 #37

Yet when anyone suggest that "right" choices should be taught lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #40

Depends on how you are talking about teaching them... SomethingFishy Jul 2014 #43

BAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! nikto Jul 2014 #50

If the cost of that education was DOUBLE the amount spent on TANF AND WIC it'd be a bargain. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #51

Yup and we aren't going to get out of it if we just ignore the problem... SomethingFishy Jul 2014 #57

That's just it, it's *self-perpetuating*. Individual choice is a relatively minor factor nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #91

Here's the photographer's takeaway from her experience. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #102

I absolutely agree that it's psychological as well as economic. nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #104

I don't believe that it's insoluble. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #106

I agree. But stagnating wages have been absolutely ruinous to much of Middle America. nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #107

It can be bigoted and prejudicial leftstreet Jul 2014 #48

No other group is in such great need of help yet getting the wrong kind. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #54

You miss my point leftstreet Jul 2014 #61

I know THAT feeling....one thing that I learned here Jeff..... clarice Jul 2014 #97

Thank you. whathehell Jul 2014 #62

Perhaps that woman's check should be taken away because of her spending on cigs???? nikto Jul 2014 #36

Relax. Maybe the cigs are stolen. Okay? Is that better? nt valerief Jul 2014 #42

I'm mainly just posing the question... nikto Jul 2014 #55

Choices have consequences. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #59

and I was just being cheeky. :) valerief Jul 2014 #67

What's the source of that graphic? Gormy Cuss Jul 2014 #34

It's arithmetic. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #38

Don't people buy by the carton? And don't they buy the cheap ones? valerief Jul 2014 #44

In my experience, poor people buy at the convenience store, one pack at a time. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #46

You can buy em 1 cig at a time at some stores -nt Bonx Jul 2014 #71

I just checked the average price of a pack in IL. Its $11.59/pack! I had no idea riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #60

It also calls into question the taxing policies of some states. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #64

Regressive taxes suck. That's at least something we can agree on. nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #92

Are you saying that you are the source of the graphic Gormy Cuss Jul 2014 #68

True enough. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #72

No, what I'm saying is that one needs data to have a robust estimate. Gormy Cuss Jul 2014 #82

I think that it's fair to take what we know (cigarettes in NY cost $14.65 on average) lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #89

Throwing random numbers at the wall is not a convincing argument. Gormy Cuss Jul 2014 #96

The family depicted in the album is a mom, her children... lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #100

You have a point. I really don't know where to fall on these issues. smirkymonkey Jul 2014 #109

The bit of illogic I can get past is this: lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #111

Since you know the question, what's the answer? rickyhall Jul 2014 #9

It's predictable as the earth's course around the sun leftstreet Jul 2014 #73

With your first post, you correctly identified 67.3% of their problem. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #77

Why not make smokes 10 cents a pack? leftstreet Jul 2014 #79

Absent any other changes, it still results in kids on nebulizers. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #80

A Nebulizer in Every Pot! leftstreet Jul 2014 #84

Here's the money quote from the OP. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #90

You called it. Skeeter Barnes Jul 2014 #21

It's a terrible way to squander limited resources if you are poor Bonx Jul 2014 #25

Addictive substances don't care how much money you make or how few resources you have. Skeeter Barnes Jul 2014 #32

Poor people would still be poor without the smokes. Ignoring that fact is just stupid. n/t nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #93

Was that reply meant for me? Skeeter Barnes Jul 2014 #94

Yes, I was agreeing with you. Sorry for any confusion. nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #95

In all fairness, it would be the first thing I would cut. liberal N proud Jul 2014 #52

I go through Troy quite often sharp_stick Jul 2014 #2

That last picture of what I assume is a woman crying while holding her baby..... a kennedy Jul 2014 #3

heartbreaking. aikoaiko Jul 2014 #4

bookmarking for later reading Liberal_in_LA Jul 2014 #5

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2014 #8

We would have to be careful that murielm99 Jul 2014 #11

don't be so sure. greyhound gets a fair amount of 1 way tickets bought by bodies of government dembotoz Jul 2014 #28

Sounds kind of like the ideas: Works Progress Administration and the Tennessee Valley Authority... Moostache Jul 2014 #22

You know your nation Aerows Jul 2014 #53

Greatest Nation On Earth! Arugula Latte Jul 2014 #10

Sure is !!!! nt clarice Jul 2014 #98

Wait! Wait! I see a refrigerator! KansDem Jul 2014 #14

5.2% own a photocopier? OnlinePoker Jul 2014 #24

I was thinking the same thing... KansDem Jul 2014 #29

Cheap multi-purpose printers would be my guess. Gormy Cuss Jul 2014 #39

I see printers in there, that's why I'm confused by the term "photocopier". n/t OnlinePoker Jul 2014 #88

If you ask someone with a multi-purpose device these questions Gormy Cuss Jul 2014 #103

Bill Maher talked last week about how SomethingFishy Jul 2014 #49

Well said, again nikto Jul 2014 #58

Thanks... SomethingFishy Jul 2014 #63

I agree----I like his "gov't store for the poor" idea. nikto Jul 2014 #78

is that coffee being poured into a baby's bottle? grasswire Jul 2014 #16

I went to the article at the link JustAnotherGen Jul 2014 #70

I agree with you... one_voice Jul 2014 #75

Amen JustAnotherGen Jul 2014 #76

Well, I've had some of the same experiences as these kids Gormy Cuss Jul 2014 #105

And repukes want to make getting birth control more difficult PowerToThePeople Jul 2014 #19

They want expendables born for slave labor and cannon fodder, IrishAyes Jul 2014 #23

I personally know this city. TRoN33 Jul 2014 #27

Here's a practical solution: lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #33

I like that idea nikto Jul 2014 #65

this is why so many who gain weight through eating bad foods are lower income people JI7 Jul 2014 #45

That right there is the problem. smirkymonkey Jul 2014 #110

There is poverty like this everywhere in America marions ghost Jul 2014 #35

it's so stupid also, and it's usually those who have money that could do without tv, phone fridge JI7 Jul 2014 #47

They have no concept marions ghost Jul 2014 #66

They may look pitiful now... nikto Jul 2014 #41

WTF are you talking about? Skittles Jul 2014 #56

"Fairness", like France's guillotine? Or what was done to the Romanovs in Russia? nikto Jul 2014 #74

riiiiiiiiiiiiiight Skittles Jul 2014 #86

What a vulgar thing to say leftstreet Jul 2014 #69

That's your interpretation of what I said, not mine nikto Jul 2014 #83

Anger?? phil89 Jul 2014 #81

That's what the elites surely would want them to feel nikto Jul 2014 #85

the elites? Skittles Jul 2014 #87

Yes, the elites. nikto Jul 2014 #108

RPI HockeyMom Jul 2014 #101