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In reply to the discussion: Anti-abortion group harasses Unitarian church during moment of silence for dead member [View all]freshwest
(53,661 posts)13. The 'personal counselors' enabled by Scalia. This is a direct result of that ruling. It reminds me
of two Coptic Christian friends who moved here because of what the MB was doing years ago in Cairo, Egypt.
One was a university professor, the other a medical doctor. They were harassed by young students at their office, at home, in their classroom and on the streets to convert to the one true faith. Lie or die.
They finally left after their refusal to give up the faith of their ancestors, begging their tormentors to let them live in peace and using common sense and reason failed. They had not spoken out publicly, but were harrassed simply because they would not lie and show the outward signs of conversion demanded. Make no mistake, the Flip Benhams of this world want people to lie to survive, just as millions in Europe and elsewhere who converted at the point of a sword. Lie or die.
Their pleas had only made them a target of the zealots on an individual level and they gave up the land their families lived in for millenia. They are some of the most forgiving, gentle and generous souls I have ever met.
That is what the Koch and others want for America. They would allow no freedom in the most intimate of matters, the most important, that of the mind. They ae getting into truly sacred territory, from which all other human interactions flow, to pollute them by enforcing Lie or die.
They're strictly against the intent of the Founders who sought to separate church from state for the good of all. They have plenty of CTers making stuff abut the Founders being 'satanists.' This is common rhetoric and that is what they are in reality attacking.
No doubt the Benham group does know about the Founding Fathers:
Natural law was the basis for the core ideas of the Revolution: People are free and equal in nature. Government is a compact between human beings, not something handed down from above.
Most important, we must always have the liberty of thought to examine received wisdom, evaluate its utility, and change our ideas and our institutions.
In particular this part:
People are free and equal in nature.
Got a chuckle from this:
"Jefferson's vision for the future of American religion featured nothing but Unitarian churches from sea to shining sea."
A better America than one divided into various cults with their supporters and enemies. Very close to what I grew up with in my home and community and even in the Baptist church.
From the first Amazon review, but all of them are very good:
Splendid imaginative but never fanciful, even at its most surprising. What lends Natures God a good deal of its verve is Matthew Stewarts unabashed attachment not only to the revolutionaries as they really were but to the skeptical rationalism they embodied. This is partisan scholarship as it should be written, and much needed service to the public. (Alan Ryan, author of The Making of Modern Liberalism)
http://www.amazon.com/Natures-God-Heretical-American-Republic/dp/0393064549/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1404062887&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=Nature%27s+God%3A+The+Heretical+Origins+of+the+American+Republic
to cbayer for posting about the book:
http://metamorphosis.democraticunderground.com/1218137537#op
The Supreme Court and conservatives are trying to write their regressive beliefs in stone and destabilize the USA for a reasonl and it's not God. It'll be a long haul to reverse this starting in 2014. We must put reactionaries out of office or we're done.
Mussolini's method included religion to give fascists the zeal to force changes on society and end democracy. Kathleen Harris did what she did in 2000 for religious zeal. But the truth is, just as it was in Italy, it's about economics, not God or the Holy Spirit. It's the face of corporatist 'christianity.'They use the flag and God as their cover and must be outted.
One was a university professor, the other a medical doctor. They were harassed by young students at their office, at home, in their classroom and on the streets to convert to the one true faith. Lie or die.
They finally left after their refusal to give up the faith of their ancestors, begging their tormentors to let them live in peace and using common sense and reason failed. They had not spoken out publicly, but were harrassed simply because they would not lie and show the outward signs of conversion demanded. Make no mistake, the Flip Benhams of this world want people to lie to survive, just as millions in Europe and elsewhere who converted at the point of a sword. Lie or die.
Their pleas had only made them a target of the zealots on an individual level and they gave up the land their families lived in for millenia. They are some of the most forgiving, gentle and generous souls I have ever met.
That is what the Koch and others want for America. They would allow no freedom in the most intimate of matters, the most important, that of the mind. They ae getting into truly sacred territory, from which all other human interactions flow, to pollute them by enforcing Lie or die.
They're strictly against the intent of the Founders who sought to separate church from state for the good of all. They have plenty of CTers making stuff abut the Founders being 'satanists.' This is common rhetoric and that is what they are in reality attacking.
No doubt the Benham group does know about the Founding Fathers:
Natural law was the basis for the core ideas of the Revolution: People are free and equal in nature. Government is a compact between human beings, not something handed down from above.
Most important, we must always have the liberty of thought to examine received wisdom, evaluate its utility, and change our ideas and our institutions.
In particular this part:
People are free and equal in nature.
Got a chuckle from this:
"Jefferson's vision for the future of American religion featured nothing but Unitarian churches from sea to shining sea."
A better America than one divided into various cults with their supporters and enemies. Very close to what I grew up with in my home and community and even in the Baptist church.
From the first Amazon review, but all of them are very good:
Splendid imaginative but never fanciful, even at its most surprising. What lends Natures God a good deal of its verve is Matthew Stewarts unabashed attachment not only to the revolutionaries as they really were but to the skeptical rationalism they embodied. This is partisan scholarship as it should be written, and much needed service to the public. (Alan Ryan, author of The Making of Modern Liberalism)
http://www.amazon.com/Natures-God-Heretical-American-Republic/dp/0393064549/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1404062887&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=Nature%27s+God%3A+The+Heretical+Origins+of+the+American+Republic
to cbayer for posting about the book:
http://metamorphosis.democraticunderground.com/1218137537#op
The Supreme Court and conservatives are trying to write their regressive beliefs in stone and destabilize the USA for a reasonl and it's not God. It'll be a long haul to reverse this starting in 2014. We must put reactionaries out of office or we're done.
Mussolini's method included religion to give fascists the zeal to force changes on society and end democracy. Kathleen Harris did what she did in 2000 for religious zeal. But the truth is, just as it was in Italy, it's about economics, not God or the Holy Spirit. It's the face of corporatist 'christianity.'They use the flag and God as their cover and must be outted.
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Anti-abortion group harasses Unitarian church during moment of silence for dead member [View all]
LiberalEsto
Jul 2014
OP
I wonder, since they're so concerned about "life", whether they help the kids crossing the border?
LiberalEsto
Jul 2014
#2
There are quite a few Unitarian congregations that consider themselves liberal Christian
LiberalEsto
Jul 2014
#22
The 'personal counselors' enabled by Scalia. This is a direct result of that ruling. It reminds me
freshwest
Jul 2014
#13