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one_voice

(20,043 posts)
Wed Jul 23, 2014, 04:50 PM Jul 2014

Another perspective...Why In The World Does The American Left Give Hamas A Free Pass? [View all]

Since the outbreak of the newest episode of violence between Israel and Hamas, I’ve been getting a lot of grief from some people who somehow expect me to take the side against Israel that a lot of the left has as well. I’m sorry, but I obviously didn’t get the memo that just because my beliefs tend to be more on the left side of the spectrum, that automatically means I have to jump on the “Israel is a monster” wagon.

Let’s get this straight right off the bat: I support the right of both Israel and a Palestinian state to exist – and it would be possible if both sides could stop being stubborn and realize a couple of hard facts.

1. Israel is not going to go anywhere, plain and simple. Ever since the Israeli government announced the formation of the State of Israel in 1948, they’ve been under attack from a number of terrorist organizations and Islamic states – and they’re still there. I know a lot of people say that there would be peace if Israel was dissolved, but that’s ridiculous both from a political and a logistical perspective.

2. The Palestinian people aren’t going anywhere either. As much as some rabidly anti-Palestinian individuals in Israel and elsewhere have expressed their support for wiping Gaza and everyone who lives there off the map, that would be a suicidal move by Israel – even if that’s what they actually wanted to do.

While what is happening in Gaza is tragic, would anyone in their right mind really stand by and allow daily rocket fire aimed at civilians to continue? Sure, the Iron Dome stops quite a few of these rockets, but it doesn’t stop all of them. A lot of people say that firing these rockets is an act of defiance against occupation, or a way of protesting the living conditions in Gaza. That’s complete rubbish. Throwing rocks at soldiers or burning tires is protesting, firing rockets at civilian population centers is trying to kill people, regardless of whether they’re shot down or not.

The response by Israel is excessive, that I can agree on. However, if you were dealing with a government (yes, Hamas is the elected government in Gaza) which insists on provoking attacks, wouldn’t you every once in awhile respond in a similar manner? On top of that, Hamas has zero regard for the lives of their own civilians, let alone civilians in Israel. If Hamas actually cared about the people it is supposed to represent, they would be busy using the limited concrete it receives to build infrastructure instead of using tunnels into Israel for launching attacks. If Hamas wanted to make Gaza a better place, they would concentrate on attracting tourism, finance and other investments instead of attacking Israel.

*snip*

http://www.forwardprogressives.com/world-american-left-give-hamas-free-pass/




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Can I just say that this issue is exhausting? And at this point, there seem to be enough bad actors Tarheel_Dem Jul 2014 #1
+1. freshwest Jul 2014 #61
Well said maddezmom Jul 2014 #81
That's how I feel LordGlenconner Jul 2014 #84
Because Likud is no better than Hamas in many ways. bravenak Jul 2014 #2
You can't stand with child killers, but attempted child killers are ok? Lee-Lee Jul 2014 #11
maybe Hamas is on to something with the whole idea of using innocents to shield weapons in order to one_voice Jul 2014 #20
does Hamas have any military installations in Gaza? frylock Jul 2014 #33
That notion could be one of the sickest things I have ever read here. The Stranger Jul 2014 #41
2000 rockets and exactly one casualty. So where is the military front eridani Jul 2014 #62
My problem is that i do not believe the right wing fanatical government of Israel anymore. bravenak Jul 2014 #32
Underdogma Throd Jul 2014 #3
I think it is also the black/white dichotomy Puzzledtraveller Jul 2014 #9
I agree. H2O Man Jul 2014 #52
It's the "playground fight" analogy customerserviceguy Jul 2014 #55
I don't. NuclearDem Jul 2014 #4
Which is the democracy and which is the terrorist organization? philosslayer Jul 2014 #77
I, for one, do not give Hamas a free pass. Maedhros Jul 2014 #5
Ostrich syndrome. Puzzledtraveller Jul 2014 #6
You are myopic..... Swede Atlanta Jul 2014 #7
Your second paragraph did not happen. ieoeja Jul 2014 #22
+1000 These are inconvenient facts for some people. tritsofme Jul 2014 #46
finally someone actually Niceguy1 Jul 2014 #53
Hamas is expected to do nothing but evil. Not so much a free pass geek tragedy Jul 2014 #8
For me it's less about Hamas than it is the Palestinian people that are innocent in all this justiceischeap Jul 2014 #10
How easy it is for you to say in the safety of your PCIntern Jul 2014 #16
And that's exactly the point here. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #40
There are no police. Who do you think is coming to arrest the bad actor? TheKentuckian Jul 2014 #48
Really? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #49
Israel is the family in the example, there is no external "police" to come and make safe the home. TheKentuckian Jul 2014 #51
Why is it not 'some small group of identifiable actors'? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #54
Why? Because it isn't, the number is finite but that doesn't translate to small TheKentuckian Jul 2014 #69
I'll address your last point first. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #70
Oh, believe you think you are being honest but I am dubious of the reaction in the actual moment TheKentuckian Jul 2014 #74
Israeli police Dorian Gray Jul 2014 #65
Why not? Israeli military seem to have no trouble Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #66
Most nations Dorian Gray Jul 2014 #75
Yes, just as easy as it is for you to say what you've said justiceischeap Jul 2014 #44
Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2014 #78
By your illogic PCIntern Jul 2014 #85
Another load of taurine metabolic byproducts. hobbit709 Jul 2014 #12
It's not that the left defends Hamas' behavior cpwm17 Jul 2014 #13
My sympathy lies with the wounded, bereaved, and homeless. Orsino Jul 2014 #71
Not turning a blind eye toward the IDF's atrocities = "giving Hamas a free pass" alcibiades_mystery Jul 2014 #14
What an amazing inversion of reality malaise Jul 2014 #21
Yup, remove the blockade so more and better weapons in along with hardened "freedom fighters" to TheKentuckian Jul 2014 #87
Another Israeli propaganda strawman. BillZBubb Jul 2014 #15
Really? PCIntern Jul 2014 #18
Yes really. BillZBubb Jul 2014 #23
I seriously doubt that... PCIntern Jul 2014 #26
You aren't using your head, just your biases, then. BillZBubb Jul 2014 #37
This message was self-deleted by its author HangOnKids Jul 2014 #56
I think we ought to build a concrete wall 50 feet high around Megido Lyric Jul 2014 #17
Post removed Post removed Jul 2014 #19
That's how strawman arguments work. nt BillZBubb Jul 2014 #25
What does.. one_voice Jul 2014 #28
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jul 2014 #30
How do you know he's not much of a... one_voice Jul 2014 #35
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jul 2014 #36
Nobody gives Hamas "a free pass" Ken Burch Jul 2014 #24
I condemn Hamas for firing rockets into Israel and I condemn Hamas for... Spazito Jul 2014 #27
The only ones getting a free pass are the companies selling the weapons..... think Jul 2014 #29
+1 LAGC Jul 2014 #39
Free pass? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #31
I'm not giving Hamas a free pass JustAnotherGen Jul 2014 #34
Criticizing Israel's actions maxrandb Jul 2014 #38
WTF??? BOTH SIDES ARE WRONG. Avalux Jul 2014 #42
+1000. brer cat Jul 2014 #43
One side is more wrong than the other! nt kelliekat44 Jul 2014 #59
The side that's shooting at the other is more wrong n/t Nevernose Jul 2014 #63
That changes from moment to moment... Orsino Jul 2014 #72
i'm not so sure about #2 Enrique Jul 2014 #45
No free pass from me but: TubbersUK Jul 2014 #47
is the answer, because we hate Jesus? NightWatcher Jul 2014 #50
Israel is treating Palestinians the way they have been treated. alarimer Jul 2014 #57
Let's say I accept your strawman, despite no evidence suggesting it LittleBlue Jul 2014 #58
You keep using the word "Hamas" waddirum Jul 2014 #60
Porgressives didn't fund Hamas, but Israel did eridani Jul 2014 #64
I don't think anyone is standing with Hamas. People are standing up for children and civilians!! Pisces Jul 2014 #67
I don't think most on the American left give Hamas a free pass. Gormy Cuss Jul 2014 #68
Hamas get no pass from me. NCTraveler Jul 2014 #73
This American lefty doesn't give Hamas a free pass KamaAina Jul 2014 #76
Garbage in garbage out. Rex Jul 2014 #79
I don't give anybody a free pass. LWolf Jul 2014 #80
This is a big part of the problem, dichotomous thinking. Criticizing Israel's actions is NOT giving uppityperson Jul 2014 #82
I understand what you're saying... one_voice Jul 2014 #83
Because "the devil made me do it" is not an excuse whatchamacallit Jul 2014 #86
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