General Discussion

PDJane

(10,103 posts)

80. The fact is that he shot a fleeing woman in the back.

Fri Jul 25, 2014, 11:48 AM

Jul 2014

Whether she was pregnant or not is a side issue, and isn't really germaine. It isn't self-defense if she was running away. I am surprised that anyone would condone that behaviour.

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He didn't "kill a baby" [View all] kiva Jul 2014 OP

Whew, glad to see someone else noticed this glaring hypocrisy. nt Bonobo Jul 2014 #1

Look up the Unborn Victims of Violence Act BklnDem75 Jul 2014 #76

Doesn't mean that there isn't hypocrisy Bonobo Jul 2014 #78

Don't really see the hypocrisy in this case BklnDem75 Jul 2014 #88

What hypocrisy? Per the murderer, the mother begged for her "baby"'s life. moriah Jul 2014 #93

This: CrispyQ Jul 2014 #106

Glad you agree. That being said, the CHOICE to be a mother is a beautiful one. moriah Jul 2014 #109

Language matters. kiva Jul 2014 #154

But it's irrelevant to the point that he shot a person who was running away, in the back. Twice. MH1 Jul 2014 #111

If he gets charged with two counts of murder, I won't cry any. moriah Jul 2014 #115

I wouldn't cry for him at all, but there is a troubling aspect for the reproductive rights movement. MH1 Jul 2014 #121

I support the UVVA because it's more about the protection of pregnant women, not the baby, to me. moriah Jul 2014 #124

Good point. edgineered Jul 2014 #2

I have no dog in this hunt. Separation Jul 2014 #3

I was wondering about this too, kiva Jul 2014 #4

Agree on all points. MH1 Jul 2014 #112

Very important distinction. enlightenment Jul 2014 #5

It wasn't the gunman's choice to kill the future baby cpwm17 Jul 2014 #6

No it's not a double murder. kiva Jul 2014 #7

Abortion is the woman's choice cpwm17 Jul 2014 #12

Which still doesn't make the fetus a person. gcomeau Jul 2014 #18

So if a man slips something to a pregnant woman Union Scribe Jul 2014 #14

of course it is TorchTheWitch Jul 2014 #19

What do you charge him with? nt Union Scribe Jul 2014 #25

Assault. Brickbat Jul 2014 #37

Really. To a woman who WANTS her child, it's a child. Way to undervalue her feelings. moriah Jul 2014 #103

There are a lot of men who'd take an assault charge.... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jul 2014 #156

"nonconsensual termination of a human pregnancy" nt cyberswede Jul 2014 #62

for slipping the pills at all is assault TorchTheWitch Jul 2014 #120

Yes. Assault and battery against the woman. (nt) jeff47 Jul 2014 #29

And she could recover financially Ilsa Jul 2014 #56

For the purposes of qualifying for the Unborn Victims of Violence Act, it was a person. moriah Jul 2014 #101

No, he did not "kill the future baby". enlightenment Jul 2014 #9

It wasn't his body. Thank you! kcr Jul 2014 #49

In some states a fetus has the same status as a baby IF pnwmom Jul 2014 #8

Didn't the gunman say she couldn't run fast because she was pregnant? No Vested Interest Jul 2014 #20

No, what he said was that SHE claimed she couldn't run as fast as her boyfriend because she was PG Hekate Jul 2014 #22

AS OF TODAY, AUTOPSY SHOWS SHE WAS NOT PREGNANT. Like I said, not one shred of evidence... Hekate Jul 2014 #173

He murdered a woman. Shooting a fleeing person in the fucking back is murder. moriah Jul 2014 #10

Like others, I wonder how far along she was. But your overall point still stands. n/t nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #11

So now its a decision between a woman, her doctor and any gunman in the immediate area? Sen. Walter Sobchak Jul 2014 #13

+HUGE!!!11!!! PowerToThePeople Jul 2014 #39

regardless, he shot someone in the back... awoke_in_2003 Jul 2014 #15

Rick Santorum says it's a baby mwrguy Jul 2014 #16

I don't know why this is so hard a concept to grasp MurrayDelph Jul 2014 #17

I'm sorry, will does not change science whatthehey Jul 2014 #36

You are technically correct, and socially so fucking wrong MurrayDelph Jul 2014 #137

No. A person does not require anyone's stamp of legitimacy. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #71

This ^^ kiva Jul 2014 #95

If fetuses were outside of another person's body, you'd have a point kcr Jul 2014 #99

Feticide is still a homicide BklnDem75 Jul 2014 #105

So it's a person whom only mom is allowed to kill? nt lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #138

According to California Penal Code 187 BklnDem75 Jul 2014 #144

So, the answer is yes. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #145

Did you read it? BklnDem75 Jul 2014 #147

I sure did. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #150

Where does it say a fetus is a person? BklnDem75 Jul 2014 #151

Thank you. I got bashed up one side and down the other on that issue. Hekate Jul 2014 #21

How anyone could shoot a person in the back astounds me. moriah Jul 2014 #23

I couldn't agree more, moriah. n/t Uncle Joe Jul 2014 #24

Rage and pain don't stop on a dime, do they? Not justifying her death, just sayin' there's more... Hekate Jul 2014 #26

Anger and adrenaline don't turn off in an instant when one has been fighting for ones life Lee-Lee Jul 2014 #34

Give me a break, please. The man bragged about murdering a pregnant woman. moriah Jul 2014 #83

From what I saw him saying in video clips Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #113

He should have just made them a pot of tea, and then held the door open for them... Hekate Jul 2014 #148

How much of a head start should he have given them before calling "the pigs"? ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jul 2014 #158

Should have at least let their car get out of sight. That seems only right and just. Hekate Jul 2014 #170

Or just give them your car ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jul 2014 #175

What's yours is mine. How dare you have more than me? How dare anyone think otherwise?nt Hekate Jul 2014 #176

Reminds me of Capt. Obvious Jul 2014 #38

That episode disturbed me as a child ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jul 2014 #159

I am pro-life Puzzledtraveller Jul 2014 #46

Yes that thread went crazy. kiva Jul 2014 #74

K&R. nt raccoon Jul 2014 #27

"He did not kill a woman and her child " i dont recall you being elected as the decider of these leftyohiolib Jul 2014 #28

Only if you believe abortion is murder. (nt) jeff47 Jul 2014 #30

but it wasnt an abortion per se some gunfreak gunned down a pregnant woman leftyohiolib Jul 2014 #31

Then abortion is murder. jeff47 Jul 2014 #60

well stopped 2 lives is what happened and is the way to look at this situation otherwise leftyohiolib Jul 2014 #100

No, you don't ignore the pregnancy. You charge a different crime. jeff47 Jul 2014 #108

doesnt A&B imply personhood- only people can be murdered.cant only people be A&B"D ? leftyohiolib Jul 2014 #122

The person being assaulted is the woman. jeff47 Jul 2014 #127

ok ..nt leftyohiolib Jul 2014 #135

He ended one life and terminated one pregnancy cyberswede Jul 2014 #61

you just playing word games like when john boner could say the word compromise leftyohiolib Jul 2014 #104

Terminating a pregnancy isn't terminating a life. cyberswede Jul 2014 #110

"Terminating a pregnancy isn't terminating a life." to many it is leftyohiolib Jul 2014 #119

Except she lied to save her ass after her boyfriend ran like a bunny rabbit Hekate Jul 2014 #177

I don't agree. NCTraveler Jul 2014 #32

It's a damn slippery slope Lee-Lee Jul 2014 #35

I don't think it's slippery. Her body, her choice. ecstatic Jul 2014 #43

The law doesn't work that way Lee-Lee Jul 2014 #44

"It can't waver back and forth" kcr Jul 2014 #52

Your making two different arguments Lee-Lee Jul 2014 #57

No, we're just arguing semantics kcr Jul 2014 #58

I didn't say that. NCTraveler Jul 2014 #97

Meh. conservaphobe Jul 2014 #33

Now that is some grade fucking a nonsense right there CBGLuthier Jul 2014 #40

Thank you. This has nothing to do with abortion. redqueen Jul 2014 #41

It has everything to do with abortion. jeff47 Jul 2014 #82

No it isn't always one or the other. It is up to the woman to decide if the pregnancy is wanted. redqueen Jul 2014 #85

You can't be a person sometimes and not a person other times. jeff47 Jul 2014 #87

Thanks ever so much for restating your opinion. IMO it is the mother's decision and no one else's. redqueen Jul 2014 #91

Again, the mother's decision doesn't change "personhood". jeff47 Jul 2014 #96

And IMO it's you doing the fingers-in-your-ears, LA LA LA bullshit. redqueen Jul 2014 #114

Asserting something as true does not make it so. jeff47 Jul 2014 #126

These laws have been in place for decades. redqueen Jul 2014 #128

So were segregation laws. jeff47 Jul 2014 #129

Wrong. TRAP laws are the weapon of choice. redqueen Jul 2014 #130

They are a weapon. Not the only one. jeff47 Jul 2014 #141

Seems folks want to have their cake and eat it too. X_Digger Jul 2014 #140

A fetus is either a person, or it is not a person. jeff47 Jul 2014 #84

It's not about a fetus, it's about a woman's choice leftstreet Jul 2014 #98

Because the law says you can only murder people. jeff47 Jul 2014 #102

Yes BrotherIvan Jul 2014 #157

If she had chosen to carry the pregnancy, then yes, he did. ecstatic Jul 2014 #42

You are skewing "pro-choice" when you make it anyone but the mother's choice. cbdo2007 Jul 2014 #45

I thought they were emphasizing that there was no "child" that was murdered. Puzzledtraveller Jul 2014 #53

Yes, that was my point. kiva Jul 2014 #64

Pretty disgusting to use a dead woman and her unborn child to push your agenda. dilby Jul 2014 #47

Post removed Post removed Jul 2014 #48

The unborn was NOT a criminal!! PowerToThePeople Jul 2014 #50

I read the article yesterday. linuxman Jul 2014 #51

There is no such thing as an "unborn" person BrotherIvan Jul 2014 #160

Kick! X_Digger Jul 2014 #54

Tell you what Dreamer Tatum Jul 2014 #55

so true Niceguy1 Jul 2014 #65

Do you believe in a woman's right to choose kiva Jul 2014 #68

I believe that one should assume that a pregnant woman who is murdered Dreamer Tatum Jul 2014 #72

Nice edit. kiva Jul 2014 #90

Yes, my original missive, that you should shove it, was uncalled for and nasty. nt Dreamer Tatum Jul 2014 #92

Thank you kiva Jul 2014 #94

"nonconsensual termination of a human pregnancy" cyberswede Jul 2014 #59

^^This!^^ BrotherIvan Jul 2014 #161

That horse already left the barn lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #63

Yeah, that distinction would have totally turned the tide of public opinion Dreamer Tatum Jul 2014 #69

Wow, gun lovers will twist all over this until they are tied in knots. Rex Jul 2014 #66

I tend to defer such characterizations geek tragedy Jul 2014 #67

Thank you for getting it. redqueen Jul 2014 #73

So according to many on this thread Dreamer Tatum Jul 2014 #75

Um, no. nt geek tragedy Jul 2014 #77

Um, yes, actually Dreamer Tatum Jul 2014 #79

I certainly don't think that. nt geek tragedy Jul 2014 #81

No kcr Jul 2014 #86

Where did anyone say anything like that? Kingofalldems Jul 2014 #146

Unborn Victims of Violence Act BklnDem75 Jul 2014 #70

The fact is that he shot a fleeing woman in the back. PDJane Jul 2014 #80

^^^ THIS. But DU has become a surprising place, it seems. MH1 Jul 2014 #116

So will this mean Turbineguy Jul 2014 #89

I subscribe to a progressive pure choice philosophy Tetris_Iguana Jul 2014 #107

He didn't kill a baby gwheezie Jul 2014 #117

Said no pregnant woman, ever. nt Dreamer Tatum Jul 2014 #118

Yes BrotherIvan Jul 2014 #155

I agree with you. closeupready Jul 2014 #123

That is what I said in my jury comments. Unfortunately, I was in the minority. nt stevenleser Jul 2014 #125

It's what the wonen says it is ismnotwasm Jul 2014 #131

i agree. we really cant have it both ways. nt La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2014 #132

According to California Penal Code SECTION 187-199, it's two murders, baby or not BklnDem75 Jul 2014 #133

She is having a baby...not Niceguy1 Jul 2014 #134

To clarify, kiva Jul 2014 #136

Holy shit, I didn't realize DU harbored so many anti-choice idjits. X_Digger Jul 2014 #139

I had no idea either. kiva Jul 2014 #142

Wow, you are completely misrepresenting a whole group here ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jul 2014 #162

Let me make it simple. X_Digger Jul 2014 #166

And that's a legit argument ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jul 2014 #167

Those were sentiments expressed by DU'ers. Left me gobsmacked to see that shit here. X_Digger Jul 2014 #168

I find it extremely suprising BrotherIvan Jul 2014 #163

It should depend on how old the fetus is. Quantess Jul 2014 #143

There is absolutely no guarantee that the fetus will become a live birth. Lars39 Jul 2014 #149

Thanks awoke_in_2003 Jul 2014 #152

He killed a human being running away from him who was pleading for her life WI_DEM Jul 2014 #153

exactly Liberal_in_LA Jul 2014 #164

When the Death of a Fetus Is Murder BklnDem75 Jul 2014 #165

BREAKING NEWS: SHE WASN'T PREGNANT! JaneyVee Jul 2014 #169

Thanks for the update... kiva Jul 2014 #171

I said the same thing yesterday yeoman6987 Jul 2014 #172

Yeah that one really brought out the concern trolls. Rex Jul 2014 #174