General Discussion

BainsBane

(57,769 posts)

76. How are dismissing "these people"

Sat Jul 26, 2014, 06:20 AM

Jul 2014

as disposed to "kill each other forever" being part of the solution?

This is a conflict about land, water, and self-determination. You see it as about religion whereas someone else might see it as about ethnicity or race, and the result would be the same level of dismissiveness. Pretending renouncing their faith would change any of that is ridiculous. Clearly this is just an opportunity for you to look down on most of the world's population who aren't as superior as a First World American. I can think of no greater demonstration of being part of the problem than the contempt you express to those who differ from yourself. Meanwhile, you lack even the most basic understanding of a conflict between people you think so inferior to yourself.

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Israel is not "the Jews". [View all] Ken Burch Jul 2014 OP

It is "the Zionists." El Supremo Jul 2014 #1

I've been told that it's antisemitic to oppose Zionism. delrem Jul 2014 #9

There's at least one ultra-orthodox Jewish sect LiberalElite Jul 2014 #52

Oh yes. delrem Jul 2014 #53

Neturei Karta, and they're no friends of Palestinians Scootaloo Jul 2014 #61

No, Neturei Karta are a joke. Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2014 #132

At its most basic, Zionism refers to Jewish self-determination. WatermelonRat Jul 2014 #88

I recently stumbled across an interesting newspaper image from 1952 starroute Jul 2014 #19

The American Council for Judaism still exists -- though barely starroute Jul 2014 #22

Many Jews have opposed to Zionism; historically, reform Judaism was largely opposed to it Chathamization Jul 2014 #29

The problem is that "Zionist" is also a catch-all for "Jewish conspiracies" villager Jul 2014 #26

Agreed malaise Jul 2014 #2

100% true phantom power Jul 2014 #3

I was accused of hating Jews yesterday because I said I don't approve what BB's gov't is doing obama2terms Jul 2014 #102

Israel doesn't just "claim" to be Jewish. It is written into Israel's basic laws. delrem Jul 2014 #4

I don't think the poster is. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #5

The US isn't a "white state", according as US laws. delrem Jul 2014 #7

It is a big difference, but it's not what the original poster was saying. Gore1FL Jul 2014 #15

You're making a distinction that doesn't exist. delrem Jul 2014 #16

Likewise, there are many H2O Man Jul 2014 #20

Yes. This has nothing to do with the point: Israel is, by law, a Jewish state. delrem Jul 2014 #21

Respectfully disagree. H2O Man Jul 2014 #99

My point is 100% correct. nt delrem Jul 2014 #134

No, it's not. H2O Man Jul 2014 #139

I see, you're "more than 100% correct". Nice to know that. nt delrem Jul 2014 #140

Correct. H2O Man Jul 2014 #143

I don't understand your point. Why you think Ken Burch's obvious point delrem Jul 2014 #144

Regardless. Gore1FL Jul 2014 #24

I didn't deny that. delrem Jul 2014 #31

Who said your post was antisemetic? Gore1FL Jul 2014 #58

I'm happy that you can agree with me on the cause of the problem. n/t delrem Jul 2014 #59

Equating the State of Israel as a synonym for Jews is the problem addressed by the OP. Gore1FL Jul 2014 #80

Yes, that's true. delrem Jul 2014 #136

yeah - if one of those errant rockets would "accidently" destroy The Dome of the Rock Baclava Jul 2014 #6

No, it isn't Spider Jerusalem Jul 2014 #8

arab/muslim antisemitism existed long before israel Mosby Jul 2014 #130

No, I'm blaming Israeli colonialism. Spider Jerusalem Jul 2014 #131

no, absolutely not reorg Jul 2014 #10

"all those aggressive Arab youths" nt delrem Jul 2014 #23

those who shouted certain chants at recent demonstrations reorg Jul 2014 #25

Agreed! etherealtruth Jul 2014 #11

The distinction is important. H2O Man Jul 2014 #12

That was bullshit this morning and it's bullshit now. randome Jul 2014 #13

Did you blame Muslims in America or France for 9/11? BainsBane Jul 2014 #49

Until someone of the likes of Ghandi stands up and leads these people out of the wilderness... randome Jul 2014 #75

How are dismissing "these people" BainsBane Jul 2014 #76

Sure, religion has nothing to do with killing and neither do guns. randome Jul 2014 #79

i think you miss the point Scootaloo Jul 2014 #63

But it's Israel that is telling us that. randome Jul 2014 #74

I am Jewish and I have lived in America my whole life obama2terms Jul 2014 #107

So you're the exception. randome Jul 2014 #135

I'm no exception obama2terms Jul 2014 #148

Interesting read here malaise Jul 2014 #14

No distinction, we're all human. nt tridim Jul 2014 #17

"Israeli security policy" A-Schwarzenegger Jul 2014 #18

I didn't use that term to soft-pedal anything. Ken Burch Jul 2014 #28

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2014 #91

Use as much snark as you wish, pikkel. Maedhros Jul 2014 #101

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2014 #108

You continue to attach to all Jews the responsiblity for what the Israeli Government is doing. Maedhros Jul 2014 #115

You obviously don't like Jews obama2terms Jul 2014 #118

'Dispensationalist Christianity'? WTF? randome Jul 2014 #145

I obviously wasn't the only one that had a problem with what this person was saying obama2terms Jul 2014 #147

Okay. If I misinterpreted what you said, my bad. randome Jul 2014 #149

Israel's a state right up until I have a probem with their foreign policy. Iggo Jul 2014 #27

No, it's still a state even then, and you have every right to call that state out. Ken Burch Jul 2014 #33

Of course it's still a state. Iggo Jul 2014 #36

Not sure what your point is here. n/t. Ken Burch Jul 2014 #38

I can see that. (n/t) Iggo Jul 2014 #39

Are you going to clarify what you mean, then? Ken Burch Jul 2014 #40

But the state represents a single "people" or "nation", out of all the many. delrem Jul 2014 #41

The issue is extreme nationalism, not the religion or ethnicity of the nationalists. Ken Burch Jul 2014 #42

Yes, it would be the same if it were another race/ethnicity. delrem Jul 2014 #48

I'm not trying to paint you as antisemitic. Ken Burch Jul 2014 #50

Of course the fact that Israel is a Jewish state is relevant. delrem Jul 2014 #51

You're deliberately missing Ken's point. [n/t] Maedhros Jul 2014 #103

No I'm not. nt delrem Jul 2014 #133

/ignore list. [n/t] Maedhros Jul 2014 #138

Byeeee! jeez. nt delrem Jul 2014 #141

Totally agree.. Israel is a goverment entity .. Judaism is a religion Peacetrain Jul 2014 #30

To update August Bebel, we could call it "the anti-imperialism of fools". n/t. Ken Burch Jul 2014 #43

The fact! K & R defacto7 Jul 2014 #32

I've long likened the Zionists to our American Taliban/republicans that are almost all Xtians stupidicus Jul 2014 #34

Your top line ReRe Jul 2014 #35

It needs to be said more, and in more places .. .. fadedrose Jul 2014 #37

Thank you. This nebulous blaming of "the Jews" for Israeli government policy has to stop. nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #44

Thank You GitRDun Jul 2014 #45

Israel might disagree. WinkyDink Jul 2014 #46

There is a logical fallacy at play here. Maedhros Jul 2014 #106

Post removed Post removed Jul 2014 #111

The people responsible for the atrocities in Gaza Maedhros Jul 2014 #116

And stop comparing this war to the Holocaust BainsBane Jul 2014 #47

Most people aren't comparing this instance or that with "the Holocaust" delrem Jul 2014 #54

There is an OP on Schindler's List BainsBane Jul 2014 #55

I said what I said. delrem Jul 2014 #56

Actually I would say the Nakba is more similar to the Treaty of Velasco BainsBane Jul 2014 #68

This is something I explained to another poster, BainsBane Scootaloo Jul 2014 #73

thank you for saying it-- and criticism of Israel the state is NOT automatically anti-Semitism mike_c Jul 2014 #57

Agreed. n/t. Ken Burch Jul 2014 #93

DUly RECommended Roy Serohz Jul 2014 #60

When Israel is held to a higher standard former9thward Jul 2014 #62

This message was self-deleted by its author Puzzledtraveller Jul 2014 #65

What higher standard is that? Scootaloo Jul 2014 #66

Scootaloo.... Cali_Democrat Jul 2014 #69

And you've gotta admit, no one demands that you support Sudan or Syria. Scootaloo Jul 2014 #72

thank you for that brief moment of reality therapy Douglas Carpenter Jul 2014 #77

Exactly FarrenH Jul 2014 #84

excellent post. nt m-lekktor Jul 2014 #86

I agree. Puzzledtraveller Jul 2014 #67

K&R Puzzledtraveller Jul 2014 #64

Agree Cali_Democrat Jul 2014 #70

Thank you. roody Jul 2014 #71

K&R intaglio Jul 2014 #78

Point well made, and all Catholics are not the Catholic Church. nt Fla Dem Jul 2014 #81

I wonder Cartoonist Jul 2014 #85

You give what you can, no forced donations. Never heard of tithing in the CC. nt Fla Dem Jul 2014 #89

I think you're referring to Baptists but it's understandable to be confused. randome Jul 2014 #90

Definitely RC Cartoonist Jul 2014 #105

Collective guilt is always a bad thing cpwm17 Jul 2014 #82

So if one says 'Fuck Israel', it's not anti-Semitic, right? randome Jul 2014 #83

Yet critics of Israel are smeared as anti-semites. You can't have it both ways. snagglepuss Jul 2014 #87

And they shouldn't be smeared with that label. Agreed. n/t. Ken Burch Jul 2014 #92

Nor is Rick Perry "Texas" DFW Jul 2014 #94

As to "doncha know"...Alaska ain't Sarah Palin, either, buddy. Ken Burch Jul 2014 #95

I never heard of any anti-Palin or anti-Perry resolutions at the UN DFW Jul 2014 #96

Knocking down a straw man . . . Rapillion Jul 2014 #97

No straw man at all. Ken Burch Jul 2014 #98

Sure, whatever you say Rapillion Jul 2014 #100

I'm just as outraged by the pogrom as you are. Ken Burch Jul 2014 #109

Rabbi Lerner Rapillion Jul 2014 #127

It's about keeping our eye on the ball. Maedhros Jul 2014 #113

Really? Rapillion Jul 2014 #126

Make no bones about it - the United States Government bears a significant share of responsibilty Maedhros Jul 2014 #142

And why does our government give so much support? Rapillion Jul 2014 #146

Zionist Christians in America push hard for pro-Israeli policy. [n/t] Maedhros Jul 2014 #150

True but . . . Rapillion Jul 2014 #151

Well said, thanks! Rhiannon12866 Jul 2014 #152

If American Muslims were as vocal in their support for Islamic terrorism tularetom Jul 2014 #104

I suppose it depends on who you know and where you may be, but my experience differs Dragonfli Jul 2014 #121

"If you oppose what the Israeli government is doing, it's bullshit to blame Jews as a group" Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2014 #110

Which I wasn't doing. n/t. Ken Burch Jul 2014 #112

And what's funny is you felt you had to clarify that. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2014 #123

I felt I had to clarify because there had been a misunderstanding, that's all. n/t. Ken Burch Jul 2014 #124

I know. And again, what's funny is you felt you had to clarify that.... Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2014 #128

Just curious timdog44 Jul 2014 #114

That, and different standards for different parts of DU. n/t. Ken Burch Jul 2014 #117

Thanks. timdog44 Jul 2014 #120

More timdog44 Jul 2014 #119

All of that is true...and, in some ways, there's a weirdly symbiotic relationship. Ken Burch Jul 2014 #125

Everybody gets lumped in. Either by nationality or religion or class. bunnies Jul 2014 #122

I agree ann--- Jul 2014 #129

All extremely valid points. Great post. n/t. Ken Burch Jul 2014 #137