General Discussion

Blue Meany

(1,947 posts)

53. What makes Israel a "real" country and Palestine

Sat Jul 26, 2014, 04:26 PM

Jul 2014

not a "real" country. They were both created by the same mandates, as were Lebanon and iraq. Are none of these nations "real."

But let's stipulate that you are right. Palestine is not a nation, it a territory that has been occupied by Israel for decades, and is under its de-facto control. It has, in effect, been incorporated into Israel, but its residents have not been given rights of citizenship and have not had their rights under international law protected.

If so, then the ethnic cleansing they have been engaging in--starting with the forced march of thousands of Palestinians off of their land and out of Israeli territory, and all of the subsequent land siezures and acts of oppression--are still war crimes. I don't see how the fact the Palestinians have never been able to function as a nation-state--a reality generated mostly by Israel's own actions--makes any difference.

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Palestinian loss of land 1946 to 2000... [View all] Little Star Jul 2014 OP

This is impressive. elleng Jul 2014 #1

For now I think I'll trust Juan Cole. Little Star Jul 2014 #2

Yes. elleng Jul 2014 #3

Who wouldn't fight back 4now Jul 2014 #4

Seems to me like they are given no other choice. Little Star Jul 2014 #5

Palestine shrunk because of the fighting. JDPriestly Jul 2014 #54

They are one in a very long line of claimants it seems... Ultra_Blue Jul 2014 #56

Eh, there has never been a time when Palestine has been state. malthaussen Jul 2014 #6

who started it? questionseverything Jul 2014 #11

My question refers to the war against Israel, not criminal acts. malthaussen Jul 2014 #17

Requires a backstory econoclast Jul 2014 #7

Or maybe the far more accurate backstory provided by Cole. Karmadillo Jul 2014 #14

"Their country"? Indydem Jul 2014 #24

Doesn't "their country" refer to the proposed Arab nation in the UN partition? The Karmadillo Jul 2014 #35

Then why des he keep acting as if they are a real country? Indydem Jul 2014 #38

What makes Israel a "real" country and Palestine Blue Meany Jul 2014 #53

That is a ridiculous right wing argument. No one, by that standard ever had a country. Land was sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #58

You're shifting definitions and don't know it. Igel Jul 2014 #45

Cole's text is incoherent, but yours is a model of clear thinking. If you say so. Karmadillo Jul 2014 #51

It was "their own fault" is always the justification of bullies. nm rhett o rick Jul 2014 #19

Choosing war in 48 obviously was not the wise choice. nt hack89 Jul 2014 #8

+1 Adsos Letter Jul 2014 #12

For either side. Ken Burch Jul 2014 #16

Sigh. Scootaloo Jul 2014 #25

I know you just want to wish it away hack89 Jul 2014 #26

History is indeed history. Scootaloo Jul 2014 #30

So let me guess. The Jews were the aggressors attacking the peaceful Arabs hack89 Jul 2014 #46

The map is highly misleading. WatermelonRat Jul 2014 #9

The West Bank was not Palestinian before 67 hack89 Jul 2014 #10

the map that lies Mosby Jul 2014 #13

This infographic seems a bit better Chathamization Jul 2014 #15

What did these Palestinians do with the land, before 1946? Archae Jul 2014 #18

Well that's certainly a familiar argument. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #20

Nothing? Karmadillo Jul 2014 #21

Here's Israels loss of land from the thousand years or so prior to '46 7962 Jul 2014 #22

Or 3000. Indydem Jul 2014 #28

Yes. 7962 Jul 2014 #52

the map clearly shows they're fighting over theological differences! MisterP Jul 2014 #23

Quibble about the precise details of the map all you want killbotfactory Jul 2014 #27

Why don't the "Palestinians" have a state? Indydem Jul 2014 #29

Israel provokes them constantly killbotfactory Jul 2014 #33

HA HA HA HA Indydem Jul 2014 #36

Sorry got confused with last nights death count killbotfactory Jul 2014 #37

The Myth of the Generous Offer: Distorting the Camp David negotiations Douglas Carpenter Jul 2014 #43

Bill Clinton puts the blame on Arafat. Indydem Jul 2014 #44

I don't share your paternalistic view of politicians when it conflicts with the historic record - Douglas Carpenter Jul 2014 #48

That's the penalty of starting and losing wars. NutmegYankee Jul 2014 #31

Spot on. Indydem Jul 2014 #40

Exactly seveneyes Jul 2014 #42

Now justify the expansion of settlements. nt killbotfactory Jul 2014 #49

None would exist if statehood had been accepted decades ago. NutmegYankee Jul 2014 #50

Right -- if they had just surrendered all their homes and land immediately, stranger81 Jul 2014 #55

"History supplies little more than a list of people who have helped themselves to the property of Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2014 #32

This is the map that blows my mind ErikJ Jul 2014 #34

, blkmusclmachine Jul 2014 #39

That map and the pictures of Israelis cutting down olive groves that had been there for ..... Botany Jul 2014 #41

Good thread. Rec'ing more for the discussion here than the OP. (n/t) thesquanderer Jul 2014 #47

As others already pointed out, this 'map' is not useful and not accurate. maced666 Jul 2014 #57