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In reply to the discussion: Might be surprised- Turns Out Hamas Likely Didn’t Kidnap and Kill the 3 Israeli Teens After All [View all]bigtree
(94,391 posts)108. false attempt to link the deaths? They provided the correction themselves
. . . so I don't know how that shows some sort of attempt to deceive anyone.
Look at the statement you've made here:
"HUGE "we regret", and sloppy reporting or regurgitating. It appears an attempt was made to falsely connect the deaths of the three Israeli teenagers to the Israeli reactionary attacks on Gaza, when in fact there was zero connection. And the reported basically dismissed this bungling with a casual "we regret the error".
Why would it make a difference where Israelis provoked Hamas, if that was indeed the case? The claim is that it was Israel which provoked the violence by attacking first. That's not just expressed in this one article. It's a rather widely debated point.
here's a reasonably written account by J.J. Goldberg at the Jewish Daily Forward:
____ Once the boys disappearance was known, troops began a massive, 18-day search-and-rescue operation, entering thousands of homes, arresting and interrogating hundreds of individuals, racing against the clock. Only on July 1, after the boys bodies were found, did the truth come out: The government had known almost from the beginning that the boys were dead. It maintained the fiction that it hoped to find them alive as a pretext to dismantle Hamas West Bank operations.
The initial evidence was the recording of victim Gilad Shaers desperate cellphone call to Moked 100, Israels 911. When the tape reached the security services the next morning neglected for hours by Moked 100 staff the teen was heard whispering Theyve kidnapped me (hatfu oti) followed by shouts of Heads down, then gunfire, two groans, more shots, then singing in Arabic. That evening searchers found the kidnappers abandoned, torched Hyundai, with eight bullet holes and the boys DNA. There was no doubt.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu immediately placed a gag order on the deaths. Journalists who heard rumors were told the Shin Bet wanted the gag order to aid the search. For public consumption, the official word was that Israel was acting on the assumption that theyre alive. It was, simply put, a lie.
Nor was that the only fib. It was clear from the beginning that the kidnappers werent acting on orders from Hamas leadership in Gaza or Damascus. Hamas Hebron branch more a crime family than a clandestine organization had a history of acting without the leaders knowledge, sometimes against their interests. Yet Netanyahu repeatedly insisted Hamas was responsible for the crime and would pay for it.
This put him in a ticklish position. His rhetoric raised expectations that after demolishing Hamas in the West Bank he would proceed to Gaza. Hamas in Gaza began preparing for it. The Israeli right settler leaders, hardliners in his own party began demanding it.
But Netanyahu had no such intention. The last attack on Gaza, the eight-day Operation Pillar of Defense in November 2012, targeted Hamas leaders and taught a sobering lesson. Hamas hadnt fired a single rocket since, and had largely suppressed fire by smaller jihadi groups. Rocket firings, averaging 240 per month in 2007, dropped to five per month in 2013. Neither side had any desire to end the détente. Besides, whatever might replace Hamas in Gaza could only be worse.
The kidnapping and crackdown upset the balance. In Israel, grief and anger over the boys disappearance grew steadily as the fabricated mystery stretched into a second and third week. Rallies and prayer meetings were held across the country and in Jewish communities around the world. The mothers were constantly on television. One addressed the United Nations in Geneva to plead for her sons return. Jews everywhere were in anguish over the unceasing threat of barbaric Arab terror plaguing Israel.
When the bodies were finally found, Israelis anger exploded into calls for revenge, street riots and, finally, murder.
Amid the rising tension, cabinet meetings in Jerusalem turned into shouting matches. Ministers on the right demanded the army reoccupy Gaza and destroy Hamas. Netanyahu replied, backed by the army and liberal ministers, that the response must be measured and careful. It was an unaccustomed and plainly uncomfortable role for him. He was caught between his pragmatic and ideological impulses.
In Gaza, leaders went underground. Rocket enforcement squads stopped functioning and jihadi rocket firing spiked. Terror squads began preparing to counterattack Israel through tunnels. One tunnel exploded on June 19 in an apparent work accident, killing five Hamas gunmen, convincing some in Gaza that the Israeli assault had begun while reinforcing Israeli fears that Hamas was plotting terror all along.
On June 29, an Israeli air attack on a rocket squad killed a Hamas operative. Hamas protested. The next day it unleashed a rocket barrage, its first since 2012. The cease-fire was over. Israel was forced to retaliate for the rockets with air raids. Hamas retaliated for the raids with more rockets. And so on. Finally Israel began calling up reserves on July 8 and preparing for what, as Moti Almoz told Army Radio, the political echelon instructed.
Later that morning, Israels internal security minister Yitzhak Aharonovitch told reporters that the political echelon has given the army a free hand. Almoz returned to Army Radio that afternoon and confirmed that the army had received an absolutely free hand to act . . .
This is by no means the only account - of either the responsibility for the killings of the teens, or the responsibility for the attack and invasion of Gaza. You are certainly free to doubt the many accounts that assign responsibility, or maybe agree with them.
The only new revelation here, and the point of the post, is to highlight these new claims by the BBC reporter about what the police chief told him. The rest about who sparked the assault and invasion will likely not be resolved with this article or any other.
If you want to debate that, there are several folks on this thread who are already debating all of that. I'd suggest you engage with them over your concerns. - or, perhaps with the author of the article.
Jon Donnison's claims, however, are the most relevant part of this thread, I believe. You, obviously disagree. I think what I've provided (including the corrections in the article) speaks for itself.
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Might be surprised- Turns Out Hamas Likely Didn’t Kidnap and Kill the 3 Israeli Teens After All [View all]
bigtree
Jul 2014
OP
And so, who is scheduled to speak to this on Sunday News shows? I guess, no one. nt
kelliekat44
Jul 2014
#95
Exactly, if it hadn't been this incident it would have been another. I doubt they were going
A Simple Game
Jul 2014
#69
Israelis refer to "Cutting the Grass", equating slaying humanity with landscaping
BlueStreak
Jul 2014
#71
Didn't the Israeli government also have knowledge those poor kids were already dead?
Scootaloo
Jul 2014
#8
Yes, people that oppose Israel's unprovoked mass-murder against the Palestinians
cpwm17
Jul 2014
#17
Think about that a minute - just what would suffice as evidence? The only source for such
Flatulo
Jul 2014
#114
Not that it matters much, because the region is a powder keg that any spark will ignite...
BlueCheese
Jul 2014
#20
The article at first attempted to link the Gaza rocket firing to an Israeli invasion of Gaza....
George II
Jul 2014
#99
They've killed hundreds of children, shameful, criminal and anyone who even tries to defend
sabrina 1
Jul 2014
#47
"First rocket fire in more than 19 months"? Bullshit. Nearly 200 attacks before July
7962
Jul 2014
#60
The article said 1st rocket fire in 19 months. Thats not true. Thats what I posted.
7962
Jul 2014
#82
The first rocket fired by Hamas in 19 months. And they had embraced the peace
Karmadillo
Jul 2014
#84
It is no coincidence that the Palestinians agreeing to a unity government in early June
cpwm17
Jul 2014
#51
That is it, in a nutshell, and some in his cabinet make Bibi look like Ghandi. n/t
Jefferson23
Jul 2014
#77
I figured it was not Hamas. Made no sense. Not sure why Israel has come clean now of all times.
McCamy Taylor
Jul 2014
#52
how do we know that? this look likes ifthar celebrations or something else quite innocuous
La Lioness Priyanka
Jul 2014
#72
you do know of course Israel kidnaps Palestinians all the time and are holding hundreds of them?
Douglas Carpenter
Jul 2014
#83
oh that is ridiculous - when you take noncombatants away without any legal charge or any need to
Douglas Carpenter
Jul 2014
#91
Anyone recall the Nazis' use of a false flag operation to justify invading Poland?
Divernan
Jul 2014
#75
it is implausible that any serious Israeli security personnel ever thought it was. They would know
Douglas Carpenter
Jul 2014
#86