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In reply to the discussion: Lawsuit claims: On a “mission from God,” George W. planned to “take out” 7 countries in 5 years. [View all]malaise
(298,505 posts)29. This really happened
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2009/aug/10/religion-george-bush
<snip>
Here's a story we should all be ashamed of missing: George W Bush attempted to sell the invasion of Iraq to Jacques Chirac using biblical prophecy.
In the winter of 2003, when George Bush and Tony Blair were frantically gathering support for their planned invasion, Professor Thomas Römer, an Old Testament expert at the university of Lausanne, was rung up by the Protestant Federation of France. They asked him to supply them with a summary of the legends surrounding Gog and Magog and as the conversation progressed, he realised that this had originally come, from the highest reaches of the French government.
President Jacques Chirac wanted to know what the hell President Bush had been on about in their last conversation. Bush had then said that when he looked at the Middle East, he saw "Gog and Magog at work" and the biblical prophecies unfolding. But who the hell were Gog and Magog? Neither Chirac nor his office had any idea. But they knew Bush was an evangelical Christian, so they asked the French Federation of Protestants, who in turn asked Professor Römer.
He explained that Gog and Magog were, to use theological jargon, crazy talk. They appear twice in the Old Testament, once as a name, and once in a truly strange prophecy in the book of Ezekiel:
Who are all these people? The best opinion is that like all Bible prophecy, it is a mixture of wish-fulfilment and contemporary (iron age) politics. Some of it at least seems to refer to the turmoil brought about by Alexander the Great in the fourth century BC (unlike Bush, Alexander actually conquered Afghanistan). But they have been for the last two hundred years the subject of increasingly excited evangelical fanfic, especially in America; in the 70s and 80s, Gog was meant to be Russia. Ronald Reagan seems to have believed that.
But with Reagan, the prophecy appreciation part of his brain functioned quite independently of the part that started wars (there's nothing in the Old Testament about Nicaragua or even Grenada). Bush seems to have taken the threat of Gog and Magog to Israel quite literally, and, if this story can be believed, to have launched a war to stop them.
Can it be believed? We have calls out to Professor Römer and to the Protestant Federation of France. I'll report back if or when they get back to us. But Römer story was published in the Lausanne University magazine in 2007, and looks perfectly credible there. It was repeated independently in a French book of interviews with Chirac this spring. I'm certainly inclined to believe it myself: it makes as much sense as anything else about Bush's policy in Iraq.
lots more at link
<snip>
Here's a story we should all be ashamed of missing: George W Bush attempted to sell the invasion of Iraq to Jacques Chirac using biblical prophecy.
In the winter of 2003, when George Bush and Tony Blair were frantically gathering support for their planned invasion, Professor Thomas Römer, an Old Testament expert at the university of Lausanne, was rung up by the Protestant Federation of France. They asked him to supply them with a summary of the legends surrounding Gog and Magog and as the conversation progressed, he realised that this had originally come, from the highest reaches of the French government.
President Jacques Chirac wanted to know what the hell President Bush had been on about in their last conversation. Bush had then said that when he looked at the Middle East, he saw "Gog and Magog at work" and the biblical prophecies unfolding. But who the hell were Gog and Magog? Neither Chirac nor his office had any idea. But they knew Bush was an evangelical Christian, so they asked the French Federation of Protestants, who in turn asked Professor Römer.
He explained that Gog and Magog were, to use theological jargon, crazy talk. They appear twice in the Old Testament, once as a name, and once in a truly strange prophecy in the book of Ezekiel:
Who are all these people? The best opinion is that like all Bible prophecy, it is a mixture of wish-fulfilment and contemporary (iron age) politics. Some of it at least seems to refer to the turmoil brought about by Alexander the Great in the fourth century BC (unlike Bush, Alexander actually conquered Afghanistan). But they have been for the last two hundred years the subject of increasingly excited evangelical fanfic, especially in America; in the 70s and 80s, Gog was meant to be Russia. Ronald Reagan seems to have believed that.
But with Reagan, the prophecy appreciation part of his brain functioned quite independently of the part that started wars (there's nothing in the Old Testament about Nicaragua or even Grenada). Bush seems to have taken the threat of Gog and Magog to Israel quite literally, and, if this story can be believed, to have launched a war to stop them.
Can it be believed? We have calls out to Professor Römer and to the Protestant Federation of France. I'll report back if or when they get back to us. But Römer story was published in the Lausanne University magazine in 2007, and looks perfectly credible there. It was repeated independently in a French book of interviews with Chirac this spring. I'm certainly inclined to believe it myself: it makes as much sense as anything else about Bush's policy in Iraq.
lots more at link
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Lawsuit claims: On a “mission from God,” George W. planned to “take out” 7 countries in 5 years. [View all]
pnwmom
Jul 2014
OP
I read the other day a man with termincal cancer will go to prison for growing pot for his pain
randys1
Jul 2014
#2
This is similar to a piece by Clark I posted to clear some things up in the BOG:
freshwest
Jul 2014
#93
Consider the source. We all knew about PNAC years ago and know about Luke Rudkowski of '9/11 TRUTH.'
freshwest
Jul 2014
#120
Wash Post, I had not heard the God & Magog bit before, but sadly it does not surprise me
peacebird
Jul 2014
#8
Yes, and rides around on that damn bicycle of his..like nothing he did ever went wrong.
Jefferson23
Jul 2014
#61
His only success in life has been utter failure and ruination of so much...the effects seem endless.
NRaleighLiberal
Jul 2014
#9
Pity the Democrats didn't go after him, Cheney, Rummy et.al. for war crimes once they were
Louisiana1976
Jul 2014
#104
In the past century, many Western Christians thought the end of the World had come as
DhhD
Jul 2014
#27
Bwah! His own special picture Bible. I can see the parting of the Red bathtub.
valerief
Jul 2014
#37
I think Gen. Clark's statement was not political but historical recollection.
Legalequilibrium78
Jul 2014
#47
If bush and co. find their way out of this lawsuit I will never trust the courts again. This is
jwirr
Jul 2014
#18
John Kennedy was fine, and Jimmy Carter, and so were most Democratic Presidents,
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#98
We all didn't buy it. Millions around protesting against a potential war didn't buy it.
valerief
Jul 2014
#69
No one here bought it, airc. We KNEW they were lying from the beginning. In fact many were
sabrina 1
Jul 2014
#135
The Second Amended Complaint Specifies The History And Specific Claims Well
cantbeserious
Jul 2014
#64
For those who don't understand why there is so much animosity toward "faith" on DU, see Bush's
Arugula Latte
Jul 2014
#66
Premillenialism only ever took off in the US (and recently, and often quite casually)
MisterP
Jul 2014
#76
And yet there are those who still scorn the notion that Bushco would MIHOP. If W saw it as part of
WinkyDink
Jul 2014
#84
Wesley Clark's interview 2007 Democracy Now....went into detail about these countries.
madfloridian
Jul 2014
#88
I remember it, too. Maybe this lawsuit will turn the tide -- if it doesn't get dismissed.
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#100
It's been reported junior blew up frogs as a child. Gog and Magog had to be blown
indepat
Jul 2014
#96
Yes. And that is a concern about TPP, if it gets approved without a thorough airing. n/t
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#102
Have the memos been proven to exist? If not this will be a difficult case to prove. nt
cstanleytech
Jul 2014
#138
General Clark could give sworn testimony in court. He would have to name the General
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#139
Sad that no political party in the US had the courage to hold those responsible
whereisjustice
Jul 2014
#147