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BainsBane

(57,837 posts)

104. If I were assigned schlock for my PhD orals?

Mon Jul 28, 2014, 08:08 PM

Jul 2014

One is not "assigned" books for a doctoral exam. You create your own reading lists based on the important books in the field. Give it up. The parallel doesn't work.

If someone is going to publish an article on a piece of fiction, obviously they must read the book very carefully. That does not mean one is not allowed to speak on a topic related to a book if you haven't read it. If I actually claimed first hand knowledge of the book, that would be another matter. I have not. I cited sources. Insisting I have no right to speak on this subject is no different from claiming that people cant voice an opinion on the Gaza conflict because they aren't' there witnessing it first.

Additionally, the complete hypocrisy of insisting only those who are concerned about rape are responsible for reading it is notable. This whole shit storm started because someone who had not read the book was pretending those who had concerns about the book were trying to control people's private sex life. The argument was laughable, but it got over 60 recs and not one of you complained about his not having read it. In fact, people patently refused to concede the discussion was about a work of fiction rather than real human beings. The "you didn't read it" mantra came about only after a couple of people dared to challenge those strawmen OPs.

So don't pretend for a second this is about anything other that getting people to shut up who have the nerve to hold different views than the all sex as the ultimate manifestation of liberty crowd, even if that "sex" is not entirely consensual. This is all about trying to assert control of the speech of those who have the nerve to challenge the precious patriarchy, something you doubtless don't believe exists.

Why people find is so unacceptable that some hold opinions that differ from theirs, i have no idea. I don't know why we should agree on this any more than any other issue. When people hold fundamentally different values, they see issues differently. You don't have to read a single post by me or anyone else that you don't want to. I don't need to read that book or anything else I don't want to, and I have every right to say whatever I damn well please, while you are free to disregard or ignore it as you see fit. End of story.

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Here is my question about criticism. Do i have to read a whole book in order to criticize it? [View all] La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2014 OP

I think it's fair to say, "It was terrible, I couldn't get past x." PeaceNikki Jul 2014 #1

agreed, this one is terrible nadinbrzezinski Jul 2014 #3

That's how I felt about Twilight, which I understand 50 Shades of Grey is based on. Louisiana1976 Jul 2014 #81

Depends on the book imo. Rex Jul 2014 #2

I couldn't get all the "begats" in the bible LOL snooper2 Jul 2014 #4

The Bible is FAR more violent and misogynistic than 50 Shades. I've read both. PeaceNikki Jul 2014 #7

If it begins,"It was a dark and stormy night . . ." flamin lib Jul 2014 #5

Depends The Straight Story Jul 2014 #6

You know what is funny? nadinbrzezinski Jul 2014 #8

feel better soon nadin! La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2014 #12

There's a Vancouver, Washington, too Scootaloo Jul 2014 #23

Could be, given that I know the one in Canada nadinbrzezinski Jul 2014 #25

There is no border checkpoint in Vancouver, Washington. pnwmom Jul 2014 #62

Well, I knew only of the one in Canada nadinbrzezinski Jul 2014 #69

WSU does not have a campus in Canada Brother Buzz Jul 2014 #137

But is that one ever referred to as plain "Vancouver"? Ron Obvious Jul 2014 #107

Yes, among people who have reason to go there. I often have to ask people which Vancouver pnwmom Jul 2014 #112

I think you should feel free to have an opinion on whatever you like el_bryanto Jul 2014 #9

A man(!) once told me the only things I *have* to do is die and pay taxes Tuesday Afternoon Jul 2014 #10

You don't have to pay taxes. Dying is about it. nt Logical Jul 2014 #17

you go right ahead and let me know how that goes for you, okie dokie. Tuesday Afternoon Jul 2014 #20

Your relevance is superseded only by your depth... LanternWaste Jul 2014 #27

Ahh, you are mad about something else I assume. Nt Logical Jul 2014 #31

No, otherwise, reading Ayn Rand would have bored us all to tears and madness long ago. nt Zorra Jul 2014 #11

oh so very true. nt La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2014 #13

Best answer! pnwmom Jul 2014 #65

It depends on your basis for criticism. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #14

Why wouldn't it be sufficient to read the glorified rape scene in chapter 8? pnwmom Jul 2014 #66

Because if you only read the parts of Huck Finn mythology Jul 2014 #77

The Chapter would provide plenty of context. n/t pnwmom Jul 2014 #93

I think it goes with the territory, even in your example what you are critical of is based on what TheKentuckian Jul 2014 #15

no. just don't claim to know more specific plot details than somebody who has read the whole thing. m-lekktor Jul 2014 #16

fair point La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2014 #70

During my PhD study, I took a class on Victorian Literature alcibiades_mystery Jul 2014 #18

If reading something was required before jumping into a discussion on DU, MerryBlooms Jul 2014 #19

so true. i posted an article just the other day and many people disagreed with it La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2014 #34

Exactly. The part that makes me laugh the most, MerryBlooms Jul 2014 #39

No, it's entirely possible to judge a work's quality through some reading Scootaloo Jul 2014 #21

I felt the same way about the Earth's children. bravenak Jul 2014 #29

Yeah... Scootaloo Jul 2014 #32

Well damn. bravenak Jul 2014 #33

They don't call him "The Great Bearded Glacier" for nothing. Scootaloo Jul 2014 #38

That was great!! bravenak Jul 2014 #45

i had all but forgotten about clan of the cave bear, but i remember loving it as a a teenager La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2014 #30

deja vu. That's how I feel about L Ron Hubbard's 'Mission Earth dekalogy'. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #40

Nope. Iggo Jul 2014 #22

NO marions ghost Jul 2014 #24

Go read the Anne Rice Beauty books. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #42

I looked her books up, not familiar... marions ghost Jul 2014 #53

i enjoyed the Beauty books. La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2014 #58

We do change over time. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #61

I loved them :) Marrah_G Jul 2014 #94

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #116

No, just like you don't have to eat the whole steak to know the meat is bad...nt SidDithers Jul 2014 #26

Criticize all you want bluestateguy Jul 2014 #28

Only the dirty bits. Warren Stupidity Jul 2014 #35

I'd be overjoyed to write something that angers a lot of people. conservaphobe Jul 2014 #36

Depends what you are criticizing. kiva Jul 2014 #37

Of course not and those claiming so now never have in the past, which is quite revealing. redqueen Jul 2014 #41

TH-TH-TH-THIS!!!! Iggo Jul 2014 #46

I'm seriously amazed at the number of people refusing to see that these particular emperors redqueen Jul 2014 #86

I think a sampling will be good enough. Otherwise your head might explode. Avalux Jul 2014 #43

LOL. La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2014 #51

without reading it all, of course you can criticize it... poorly. unblock Jul 2014 #44

.. La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2014 #52

Depends. One should at least have read up until the point of objectionable content ecstatic Jul 2014 #47

Of course that approach can lead to someone walking out of A Clockwork Orange because it's just... JVS Jul 2014 #97

It depends on whom you are trying to impress Dreamer Tatum Jul 2014 #48

The every word crowd never went to grad school BainsBane Jul 2014 #49

SO TRUE. *or frankly any exam in grad school. La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2014 #50

The grad school crowd knows to read enough so that we are conversant on msanthrope Jul 2014 #64

Excuse me? BainsBane Jul 2014 #67

I'd be willing to bet pintobean Jul 2014 #74

I try. nt msanthrope Jul 2014 #80

I dunno alcibiades_mystery Jul 2014 #68

I'm sure fields vary BainsBane Jul 2014 #72

We are talking about a single primary source. If you were assigned msanthrope Jul 2014 #83

If I were assigned schlock for my PhD orals? BainsBane Jul 2014 #104

When I wrote my graduate thesis on Fray Servando nadinbrzezinski Jul 2014 #138

Monographs and articles are generally secondary sources alcibiades_mystery Jul 2014 #85

Obviously. And one reads secondary sources for comprehensive exams BainsBane Jul 2014 #95

That's no doubt true alcibiades_mystery Jul 2014 #109

Yes, but we are not talking about a literature seminar BainsBane Jul 2014 #122

Also true alcibiades_mystery Jul 2014 #123

I again think that relates to discipline BainsBane Jul 2014 #124

My own alcibiades_mystery Jul 2014 #130

Then you read the portions pertinent to your research BainsBane Jul 2014 #131

Different schools of thought, I guess alcibiades_mystery Jul 2014 #133

I went to grad school. Twice. Hissyspit Jul 2014 #126

If everyone's a consenting adult, you can do pretty much whatever you want. Warren DeMontague Jul 2014 #54

Difference between criticism and critique. nolabear Jul 2014 #55

very true. La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2014 #57

I agree and I think that is what I thought as I read some of these OPs/threads stevenleser Jul 2014 #118

I suppose this depends in large part on what is being criticized arcane1 Jul 2014 #56

I think as long as you're upfront about the amount you read, you're good to go steve2470 Jul 2014 #59

If you want to write a few thosand words about what the unreadable book means Bluenorthwest Jul 2014 #60

ok. i think that is fair. i too couldn't go on an on about something i have not read well La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2014 #63

Are you able to say that there's glorified, romanticized rape in Atlas Shrugged? redqueen Jul 2014 #71

in ayn rand? La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2014 #73

Yes, I just went back and added a link for context. redqueen Jul 2014 #75

that arguments cites the paragraph that contains the rape, so yes, i would La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2014 #76

Thanks. redqueen Jul 2014 #78

I didn't see the link and have read all three books... one_voice Jul 2014 #87

Then there's also the one in 50 Shades of Grey, which many have described, redqueen Jul 2014 #84

Did you read the book? newcriminal Jul 2014 #99

Holy carp (intended). Is that seriously it? DirkGently Jul 2014 #105

Well it is awful. Warren Stupidity Jul 2014 #114

I agree it's awful, but it isn't rape. newcriminal Jul 2014 #117

Yes, I've read these posts with great amusement ... NanceGreggs Jul 2014 #119

There was no rape. It has nothing to do with a contract. newcriminal Jul 2014 #121

Maybe Capt. Obvious Jul 2014 #79

I was once asked to write a review of a book Maeve Jul 2014 #82

If you're doing a full critique, yes, you must read it all. If... HuckleB Jul 2014 #88

I think so. LWolf Jul 2014 #89

How much of any of Dinesh D'Souza's books or Ann Coulter's books do we need to read Proud Liberal Dem Jul 2014 #90

read one of ann coulter's book halfway through at a b&n. swore to myself to never be so mean La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2014 #91

I want to try to be "open minded" and listen to opposing viewpoints Proud Liberal Dem Jul 2014 #96

None, but I wouldn't claim that they are examples of poor writing. Warren Stupidity Jul 2014 #115

You only read one page? What book was that? edbermac Jul 2014 #92

not sure but i think it is The 3 Mistakes of My Life La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2014 #101

Maybe one of his mistakes was writing that book! edbermac Jul 2014 #103

Yes, if you want your opinion valued. rug Jul 2014 #98

Not to "criticize." To critique. DirkGently Jul 2014 #100

i am not sure i agree on your elaboration La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2014 #102

But it's way more than "criticizing" the idea of the thing. DirkGently Jul 2014 #106

"to scream in neck-throbbing rage that your interpretation is superior to the interpretation of Squinch Jul 2014 #128

I think it depends on what kind of criticism/critique you're talking about fishwax Jul 2014 #108

hell yes, but it's ok to bail out of bad one. You just don't have info to critique it. Liberal_in_LA Jul 2014 #110

You can criticize all you want, but ... surrealAmerican Jul 2014 #111

mostly no, but DonCoquixote Jul 2014 #113

No, you don't have to read every word treestar Jul 2014 #120

No. But your opinion wouldn't carry the same weight as someone who LittleBlue Jul 2014 #125

Two followup questions: Do you have to read the book before you can have an opinion on Squinch Jul 2014 #127

Of course not. NaturalHigh Jul 2014 #129

"I got through one page before i declared it wholly unreadable " NCTraveler Jul 2014 #132

It really depends on your purpose and what exactly you are criticizing IronLionZion Jul 2014 #134

Basing an opinion on a particular work based on hearsay alp227 Jul 2014 #135

depends... Javaman Jul 2014 #136

I have never personally read even one page of Mein Kampf - but I have a feeling its is bad Douglas Carpenter Jul 2014 #139

Post removed Post removed Jul 2014 #140

write not right and ann rice does not write horror per se. nt La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2014 #141

Frankenstein - enjoy your stay. nt redqueen Jul 2014 #142

Tried this in High School Lit. dilby Jul 2014 #143

If you haven't read much of the book, you should state that in your criticism. Jim__ Jul 2014 #144