General Discussion

Fortinbras Armstrong

(4,477 posts)

17. I've been making the same point about Clinton and Bush for years.

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 02:21 PM

Jul 2014

Apparently, getting a blow job from a consenting adult and lying about it is an impeachable offense, but lying in order to start a war is OK.

Now, the Republicans say that Bush followed the intelligence he was given. That's not quite accurate: Bush read the intelligence that supported his desire for war in Iraq, and ignored that which did not. The term for this is "willful ignorance". Thomas Aquinas established the moral principle someone deliberately keeping him- or herself willfully ignorant is as morally culpable as if he or she was acting with full knowledge, and this is also well established in law. If you want the religious argument, see Aquinas' Summa Theologica I-II, Question 6, articles 3 and 8. If you want the legal arguments, Rebecca Roiphe's "The Ethics of Willful Ignorance" is good.

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How can it be that Bill Clinton was essentially impeached for cheating on his wife.... [View all] Cali_Democrat Jul 2014 OP

This is what happens when neocons are the powers behind both parties. Scuba Jul 2014 #1

I love seeing the correct answer in the first reply. Soylent Brice Jul 2014 #50

I agree. ;-l n/t ReRe Jul 2014 #92

No. You love seeing BULLSHIT in the first reply. Clinton being a neocon is irrelevant! Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2014 #116

ohai. Soylent Brice Jul 2014 #153

"Correct answer" implies fact. It is not a fact. It is a fallacy. A fallacy is a statement that lack Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2014 #156

... Soylent Brice Jul 2014 #158

Meaning republicans would not have impeached Clinton if he were a "true liberal"? pampango Jul 2014 #53

That's certainly not my meaning. Since it's yours, how do you justify it? Scuba Jul 2014 #59

If you did not mean that republican neocons were impeaching a Democratic neocon, I apologize. n/t pampango Jul 2014 #62

That's exactly what I meant. The point was he was a Democrat; it didn't matter that he was a neocon. Scuba Jul 2014 #64

If republicans would impeach a Democrat whether he were a neocon or not, then pampango Jul 2014 #67

Pretty certain means Democrats *would* have impeached Bush if the Party were not run by neo-cons. ieoeja Jul 2014 #134

I always thought it was because he lied about lying to his wife or leftyladyfrommo Jul 2014 #66

No, he was charged with perjury, i.e., lying under oath in his grand jury testimony. Divernan Jul 2014 #85

wasnt he disbarred, too? Niceguy1 Jul 2014 #124

He was temporarily disbarred from the Supreme Court. He was never charged with perjury. ieoeja Jul 2014 #135

But what was he lying about? leftyladyfrommo Jul 2014 #131

That makes no sense. Look, I'm no fan of the Clintons, but if Bill Clinton is a neocon, and the Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2014 #115

Don't Blame the Republicans! Chasstev365 Jul 2014 #122

Part of it is that a whole bunch of Dems such as Hillary and Kerry voted for the war (nt) Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #2

This. NCTraveler Jul 2014 #5

Bush's accomplices could have been gone after too. Louisiana1976 Jul 2014 #38

Accept that Bill is best buddies with the Bushes and it seems good friends with John McCain. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2014 #117

Not sure what that has to do with my post in any way at all. NCTraveler Jul 2014 #126

Sure it does. He was slow to condemn the illegal invasion of Iraq because his wife Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2014 #143

True, and Mr.Bill Jul 2014 #22

Oh boy, here we go again! George II Jul 2014 #23

I'm dumbfounded that people on 'our side' continue to perpetuate this falsehood ... brett_jv Jul 2014 #54

Did they really think Bush wasn't going to go to war????!!!!11111 bigwillq Jul 2014 #55

Anyone who was conscious laundry_queen Jul 2014 #57

Regardless, why represent it that way when discussing the subject on a liberal board? brett_jv Jul 2014 #70

Fair point. Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #72

Doesn't change the fact that laundry_queen Jul 2014 #74

. BlancheSplanchnik Jul 2014 #138

I used to think I was a republican... awoke_in_2003 Jul 2014 #96

Ah. laundry_queen Jul 2014 #97

Yep, that is how I came up with the name... awoke_in_2003 Jul 2014 #148

BULLSHIT!!!!!! They voted to authorize the invasion of Iraq...something that Bush wanted and was Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2014 #118

Been asking that for a couple years now. blm Jul 2014 #3

Not Me...It's Easy billhicks76 Jul 2014 #82

To a certain extent Cosmocat Jul 2014 #103

I've always been able to answer this. The American people place double standards on the parties. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2014 #119

LOL - I said that facetiously. Of COURSE I KNOW why and how. ; ) blm Jul 2014 #144

Brilliantly said. Boomerproud Jul 2014 #151

If I remember right, Bill was impeached for the lies he told to a grand jury. FreedRadical Jul 2014 #4

It depends Pharaoh Jul 2014 #36

The words of the Articles of Impeachment ... oldhippie Jul 2014 #46

Yes. Lies about SEX. He lied to a grand jury about SEX. CHEATING ON HIS WIFE. calimary Jul 2014 #49

Super great post!! davekriss Jul 2014 #60

Don't hold back. Tell me what you think. FreedRadical Jul 2014 #123

except that he lied about sex Niceguy1 Jul 2014 #125

good post northoftheborder Jul 2014 #128

Obama's Community Chest whatchamacallit Jul 2014 #6

Do you want an honest answer, or do you just want to vent? brooklynite Jul 2014 #7

If I know he was lying...and you know he was lying...and he knows he was lying... world wide wally Jul 2014 #28

I DON'T know he was lying (I don't over-estimate his intelligence)... brooklynite Jul 2014 #29

He took an oath to uphold the office and to defend the Constitution world wide wally Jul 2014 #31

...and how did his actions in Iraq violate that pledge? brooklynite Jul 2014 #34

Do I really need to explain it to you? world wide wally Jul 2014 #90

Sorry, I don't subscribe to "we all know" as a legal doctrine... brooklynite Jul 2014 #102

You are absolutely right!! Had the majority of Dems in the House/Senate stood firm Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2014 #157

The jury isn't selected from 90% of the rest of the world... Hippo_Tron Jul 2014 #105

The difference is that Democrats view impeachment as a serious process, hedgehog Jul 2014 #8

Bingo. savalez Jul 2014 #21

You can also add: AngryDem001 Jul 2014 #24

Also, they never got over Nixon's impeachment based on journalists' uncovering a coverup. SleeplessinSoCal Jul 2014 #37

excellent post Cosmocat Jul 2014 #106

Very good points - I think the key is that they really believed that the Democratic Party was hedgehog Jul 2014 #142

They can believe all they want that Daley stole the 1960 election. HubertHeaver Jul 2014 #149

Romney's "47%" leak is paramount to everything SleeplessinSoCal Jul 2014 #150

This^ ^ ^ Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jul 2014 #51

WINNER! Cosmocat Jul 2014 #104

How dare you not use Clinton's impeachment to trash Democrats!!!1! tridim Jul 2014 #110

Ask the leadership of the democratic party. JVS Jul 2014 #9

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. Scuba Jul 2014 #61

I think that they investigated him for that but I think the impeachment was based on his lying about jwirr Jul 2014 #10

Too many Democratic Pols were collaborators in Bush's wars. Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2014 #11

Not only that, Dems remembered the backlash loyalsister Jul 2014 #56

Lopsided power base. Baitball Blogger Jul 2014 #12

But our powder is still dry. postulater Jul 2014 #13

"There's something really fucked up about all of this." KansDem Jul 2014 #14

True. Louisiana1976 Jul 2014 #39

I have never read an elected Republican leader calling for impeachment. former9thward Jul 2014 #15

Are you fricking kiddinng me? Cosmocat Jul 2014 #107

Technically... Spider Jerusalem Jul 2014 #16

Why was Clinton asked under oath if he was cheating on his wife? I mean, that should be Louisiana1976 Jul 2014 #40

Well... Spider Jerusalem Jul 2014 #43

It wasn't just Lewinsky loyalsister Jul 2014 #63

I've been making the same point about Clinton and Bush for years. Fortinbras Armstrong Jul 2014 #17

It was the lying under oath that got him in trouble hack89 Jul 2014 #18

Yep. He shouldn't have denied it. The story would have gone away after a couple of weeks. Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #20

We have a winner. ^ world wide wally Jul 2014 #30

LOL - if you really believe that ... BlueMTexpat Jul 2014 #112

Not saying he should have been impeached hack89 Jul 2014 #113

One thing: he was never, ever accused of lying under oath by any court of law. ieoeja Jul 2014 #136

ya think? Voice for Peace Jul 2014 #19

+1000 C Moon Jul 2014 #25

The DEMS did not want to hold Bush Co. accountable. bigwillq Jul 2014 #26

Yep. "Impeachment is off the table." We're "looking forward..." polichick Jul 2014 #27

Because Democrats are afraid to impeach war criminals, they told us that it would 'look political'. sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #32

+ 1000 nt raouldukelives Jul 2014 #88

Big reason Dubya wasn't impeached -- Dick Cheney Shoonra Jul 2014 #33

Wasn't he also the deciding vote in the Senate? GoCubsGo Jul 2014 #77

Conviction would have required 67 votes, not 51. n/t ColesCountyDem Jul 2014 #98

So, in other words... GoCubsGo Jul 2014 #132

Precisely. ColesCountyDem Jul 2014 #145

If Cheney saw a chance JoeyT Jul 2014 #99

Republicans want to impeach onecaliberal Jul 2014 #35

Two reasons: 1) abstract vs. concrete and 2) the corporate media RufusTFirefly Jul 2014 #41

Good analysis. maddiemom Jul 2014 #121

What is really fucked up about all this is President Obama's failure to prosecute Bush Enthusiast Jul 2014 #42

I agree. If the right wants to impeach Obama, it should be for that. polichick Jul 2014 #58

Absolute bullshit Cosmocat Jul 2014 #108

You are entitled to your opinion. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #130

Ask Nancy Pelosi. Fuddnik Jul 2014 #44

And the anthrax mail finally was, too. nt valerief Jul 2014 #48

Bush (or Cheney and his cronies, really) managed to create a simulacrum of legality around Aristus Jul 2014 #45

Clinton's cheating didn't make rich people richer. Bush's war did. nt valerief Jul 2014 #47

Your typical con is jealous that Clinton got so much you know what... randys1 Jul 2014 #52

Clinton should not have been impeached, Progressive dog Jul 2014 #65

The MIC makes more money when the republicans are in power. Initech Jul 2014 #68

Clinton was impeached because of hubris SoCalDem Jul 2014 #69

"We have to look forward" Mnpaul Jul 2014 #73

I think we have to let go of this already. Let's move on. We"ve said our arguments CTyankee Jul 2014 #71

I'm pretty sure a call to "impeach" Obama jimlup Jul 2014 #75

I think the Dems were afraid a Bush impeachment would backfire on them, too. GoCubsGo Jul 2014 #76

Yeah and I also think that it would wake-up Obama's base /nt jimlup Jul 2014 #78

The dc dems are the "good cop" in the charade we pay to watch Doctor_J Jul 2014 #79

What is really fucked up about all this is how the right-wing meme is thrust upon us incessantly by indepat Jul 2014 #80

Sex:bad - Saving lives:bad - War:good - Killing:good Kablooie Jul 2014 #81

They thought we wouldn' notice is all I could figure...nt fadedrose Jul 2014 #83

Well, there's two parts to that Prophet 451 Jul 2014 #84

Yeah that is how fucked up everything really is. Rex Jul 2014 #86

IOKIYAR Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2014 #87

Everything's OK ... if you're a Republican !!! blkmusclmachine Jul 2014 #89

Of course there is something fucked up about all this. MADem Jul 2014 #91

Are we sure he lied? greymattermom Jul 2014 #93

The only impeachable crime is being a Democrat jmowreader Jul 2014 #94

K&R DeSwiss Jul 2014 #95

I got told by right wingers at the time: Buddha2B Jul 2014 #100

YEP Cosmocat Jul 2014 #109

Bill Clinton got impeached customerserviceguy Jul 2014 #101

Duplicity Is An Ugly Trait Mastered By The Right cantbeserious Jul 2014 #111

AND...the American people will make sure it happens by handing the Senate over to Republicans. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2014 #114

threat if impeachment is part of the right wing playbook now rurallib Jul 2014 #120

because Dems aren't extremists and GOP is. librechik Jul 2014 #127

He was impeached for being a Democratic President CanonRay Jul 2014 #129

The standard was set with Clinton, and impeachment is something one party will "clamor" for hughee99 Jul 2014 #133

stupid treacherous repugs samsingh Jul 2014 #137

Which one makes rich white men richer? efhmc Jul 2014 #139

According to Buddhism, this is the predicted Age of Mappo, or Age of Confusion, when everything is DesertDiamond Jul 2014 #140

This is a great question for Nancy Pelosi... radhika Jul 2014 #141

Bush and Cheney were too smart to agree to deposition under oath. AtheistCrusader Jul 2014 #146

No, they were simply more brazen. WinkyDink Jul 2014 #155

He was impeached for lying, not enjoying a WH hummer. NM_Birder Jul 2014 #147

IIRC, Pelosi took impeachement off the table; and Obama said he was merrily Jul 2014 #152

Because Republicans like to put things on the table. WinkyDink Jul 2014 #154