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Hippo_Tron

(25,453 posts)

110. We've left Iraq and we're leaving Afghanistan (not that those were shining examples of morality)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 10:44 PM

Jul 2014

Again, there's a difference between occupying a country for a period of time and leaving and occupying a country indefinitely. Israel has occupied the West Bank and Gaza for ALMOST 50 YEARS. There has been more than adequate time to set up a friendly Palestinian government and leave, but they took 2 decades longer than necessary to even seriously consider Palestinian sovereignty. And the current Prime Minister has done everything in his power to oppose anyone, even in his own party, who has tried to take steps towards Palestinian statehood.

Furthermore, the vast majority of the nations you list are not democracies and we hardly treat them as part of the civilized world. If Israel wants to stoop to the level of Russia, then by all means it can. But I'd much rather see it be a legitimate democracy.

Hong Kong isn't occupied, btw.

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If Americans Knew - What Every American needs to know about Israel/Palestine [View all] Fred Sanders Jul 2014 OP

So what borders should Israel be restricted to? hack89 Jul 2014 #1

As per the original UN borders. Fred Sanders Jul 2014 #3

The UN says the 1967 borders are the starting point for negotiations hack89 Jul 2014 #6

I agree. But why reinvent the wheel? There is already a comprehensive plan...adopt it. No further Fred Sanders Jul 2014 #7

The original plan got blown up in a couple of wars hack89 Jul 2014 #9

Not so fast, sir: Fred Sanders Jul 2014 #14

I think you need to read my post, just above, and restate your position. Fred Sanders Jul 2014 #16

What comprehensive plan are you referring to? hack89 Jul 2014 #44

See, I can tell by your phrasing you're clueless Scootaloo Jul 2014 #23

Post removed Post removed Jul 2014 #42

Oh my lord. Scootaloo Jul 2014 #49

dear scootaloo Voice for Peace Jul 2014 #96

Some are uneducatable. But they can be burned. Comrade Grumpy Jul 2014 #114

No, Netanyahu and Likud do not want a peace treaty Hippo_Tron Jul 2014 #115

negotiations ... ? Tuesday Afternoon Jul 2014 #12

I am only pointing out the UN's position on Israel's borders. nt hack89 Jul 2014 #13

The poster would probably restrict them to an island in the Mediterranean. HERVEPA Jul 2014 #4

The borders Israel declared to the world in 1948, perhaps? Scootaloo Jul 2014 #11

Those negotiations already took place. Calista241 Jul 2014 #15

No in fact they haven't Scootaloo Jul 2014 #18

Since the beginning of human civilization, the winner of a war either gets territory Calista241 Jul 2014 #27

"Might Makes Right" is a barbarism that has been rightly abandoned in the civilized world Scootaloo Jul 2014 #30

Hear. Hear. This post deserve its own thread because snagglepuss Jul 2014 #46

There ARE treaties. Calista241 Jul 2014 #51

Wow, really? Putting Israel in the same basket as ISIS and Russia, huh? As DEFENSE of Israel? Scootaloo Jul 2014 #53

There has NEVER been a state of Palestine. Calista241 Jul 2014 #57

You cannot take land like that through warfare anymore. bravenak Jul 2014 #55

Unless you are Russia and want the Crimea? EX500rider Jul 2014 #59

Yes, I see that's working out splendidly. bravenak Jul 2014 #62

And pointing this out Aerows Jul 2014 #92

It's getting so crazy. bravenak Jul 2014 #94

Russia isn't a democracy Hippo_Tron Jul 2014 #109

Nope, World War II changed that Hippo_Tron Jul 2014 #71

China, the USA, Russia. Calista241 Jul 2014 #86

We've left Iraq and we're leaving Afghanistan (not that those were shining examples of morality) Hippo_Tron Jul 2014 #110

Not since WWII. Spider Jerusalem Jul 2014 #111

Big problem RedFury Jul 2014 #108

Sharon forced settlers out of Gaza, he may well have done the same in the West Bank Hippo_Tron Jul 2014 #112

Texas! grahamhgreen Jul 2014 #100

If Americans Knew web site is an excellent resource Larkspur Jul 2014 #2

Absolutely. Used as a source on such wonderful websites as this one: HERVEPA Jul 2014 #10

Do we really have to repeat this whole charade? stranger81 Jul 2014 #17

Does that make it any less true? atreides1 Jul 2014 #21

Great site... Rhinodawg Jul 2014 #28

So you want to play the smear game? Can you refute any of the maps? Or anything said by me or Fred Sanders Jul 2014 #31

Poster is pointing out leftynyc Jul 2014 #32

Lot of gems on this site too, some are good some are bad, I get the point, it means nothing, and Fred Sanders Jul 2014 #33

Did you know they leftynyc Jul 2014 #40

That's not a secret to anyone. Rhinodawg Jul 2014 #41

You'e just shooting the messenger. The fact remains is that maps speak snagglepuss Jul 2014 #48

I'm still waiting for an answer leftynyc Jul 2014 #54

If you have information that the maps are snagglepuss Jul 2014 #58

Regarding the maps oberliner Jul 2014 #85

The UN maps are propaganda, you don't say? No source will please you or disturb your set in concrete Fred Sanders Jul 2014 #88

I guess next I can expect leftynyc Jul 2014 #98

Fellow apologists, huh ? Rhinodawg Jul 2014 #36

"Too evil or too stupid.....", I could not have said it better myself. Fred Sanders Jul 2014 #69

that second map has been debunked hundreds of times Mosby Jul 2014 #72

The ADL, being a propaganda site, attacks another accused propaganda site, the circle is closed. Fred Sanders Jul 2014 #89

The ADL has been fighting bigotry for 101 years. Mosby Jul 2014 #95

Typical guilt by association smear used by the "Israel can do no wrong" mob Larkspur Jul 2014 #35

Why do you go to that despicable hate site? I would not click on it if you paid me. Shameful to sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #39

Take it easy... Rhinodawg Jul 2014 #47

Linking to stormfront.org? Seriously? ColesCountyDem Jul 2014 #82

Be my guest, if making stuff up does that to you. Fred Sanders Jul 2014 #90

So, you're saying that stormfront.org is NOT a neo-Nazi, 'white power' website? ColesCountyDem Jul 2014 #91

That's a new low Aerows Jul 2014 #93

Are you serious? Have you even read their homepage? ColesCountyDem Jul 2014 #97

And yet all we hear is rhetoric about how the very existence of Israel is threatened Maedhros Jul 2014 #5

Palestine is being driven into the sea, maps don't lie. Fred Sanders Jul 2014 #8

But AIPAC does. [n/t] Maedhros Jul 2014 #19

And it is that simple malaise Jul 2014 #22

Pardon my ignorance, sadoldgirl Jul 2014 #20

If you mean the loss of land map, that was the 1947 UN plan borders, Israel was borne........it Fred Sanders Jul 2014 #25

agreed La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2014 #34

after the holocaust i can understand why they would have preferred to go some other place JI7 Jul 2014 #52

in terms of race, europeans committed the genocide of the jewish people La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2014 #24

They never knew what hit them, until the missiles and bombs hit them and drove them away. Fred Sanders Jul 2014 #26

Checkpoint - Israel Defence Forces Documentary RandiFan1290 Jul 2014 #29

Hi Fred, this website is tainted goods. There are so many legitimate ones. Let me put it this way, Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #37

OK, understood, but the facts related seem to be accurate, it is an account worth telling, based on Fred Sanders Jul 2014 #64

Fred...ifamricansknew is a hate site. Rhinodawg Jul 2014 #67

I would delete the thread, that is how off base Alison Weir is to me..she carries ugly intent. Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #73

My knowledge of her is only the article I linked to....I stand by the article. It was a top Google Fred Sanders Jul 2014 #75

Ok, that is your call. n/t Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #77

OK, thanks. I really do get where you are coming from, but I do not have the patience to go down Fred Sanders Jul 2014 #79

I understand that, and why I posted about the website..we really do not want to lend Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #81

Also found this piece on her, since you piqued my curiosity, any insight? Fred Sanders Jul 2014 #80

I have no explanation why he endorsed it but keep in mind, he is not an academic Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #83

I just went back to the white/ green/ gray map, and sadoldgirl Jul 2014 #38

Don't forget what started this round of violence. The world had the audacity to recognize the palest AtheistCrusader Jul 2014 #43

Thanks for this information KansDem Jul 2014 #45

k and r snagglepuss Jul 2014 #50

We need to immediately terminate all military assistance to Israel including the "shields".... Swede Atlanta Jul 2014 #56

Great map, Fred. I knew they were losing land, but not on that scale. toby jo Jul 2014 #60

The Chosen People wanted that land real bad, it is religion that dictated this madness, as usual. Fred Sanders Jul 2014 #65

I don't mean to sound like an a$$hole....but why should we care? cbdo2007 Jul 2014 #61

Genocide? ProgressiveJarhead Jul 2014 #63

Let's argue semantics all day everyday while the land theft and murder of civilians continues. bravenak Jul 2014 #68

Anyone studying these maps and still not getting the consequence of forced seizure of land and holy Fred Sanders Jul 2014 #74

Infuriating. bravenak Jul 2014 #76

Wheweeeee! I'll never forget what one certain... ReRe Jul 2014 #66

Lets just clear something up... Hippo_Tron Jul 2014 #70

Cause and effect. The effect of the UN mandate was or caused war, I understand that. Fred Sanders Jul 2014 #78

No, Egypt, Jordan, and Syria caused war Hippo_Tron Jul 2014 #113

The missing maps and the missing facts RRumpole Jul 2014 #84

Honoured to be the recipient of your very first post, which, unfortunately, is nothing more than Fred Sanders Jul 2014 #87

Wow, how rude and how wrong. elias7 Jul 2014 #99

Skewed and incomplete facts econoclast Jul 2014 #101

All your points ignore Israel was a country dropped into the middle of another country/land Fred Sanders Jul 2014 #102

No "other country" econoclast Jul 2014 #103

And so all the layers come off the onion and the real objection comes into the light TheKentuckian Jul 2014 #104

The "anti-Semite response" ones are excruciatingly boring, yet all too common. Fred Sanders Jul 2014 #105

And sadly all too accurate it would seem econoclast Jul 2014 #106

I'd find it "boring" if I didn't have an acceptable response too, I reckon. TheKentuckian Jul 2014 #107

Your earlier "chosen people" snark kinda gives you away. onenote Jul 2014 #116