General Discussion

appal_jack

(3,813 posts)

85. Look, I like Tyson (& evolutionary theory) very much.

Thu Jul 31, 2014, 05:00 PM

Jul 2014

Look, I like Tyson (& evolutionary theory) very much. He is a smart, engaging, and charismatic voice for science in our media sphere. His outreach helps scientific literacy in America every day. But he is a physicist by training. Holding him up as an authority on biological controversies does not make for a particularly compelling argument.

I happen to agree with N dG T very much on the evolution vs creationism 'debate,' so it is convenient to cite him, but again, not absolutely compelling.

I happen to disagree with N dG T regarding GMO's long-term human and ecological safety (highly debatable at best). And with regards to his drawing equivalence between crop improvement by selection and GMO technology, he is flat-out wrong. They are verifiably different processes, with quite different outcomes thus far.

-app

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Neil deGrasse Tyson Tells GMO Critics to "Chill Out" [View all] Quixote1818 Jul 2014 OP

and Dr. Tyson is welcome to eat all the GMO, insecticide-laden food he wants magical thyme Jul 2014 #1

Exacttly, magical thyme.. no one is "infallible". I've been eating organic food for Cha Jul 2014 #18

Exactly. Maat Jul 2014 #114

GMO and insecticide-laden are not the same thing ag_dude Jul 2014 #117

Bt is certified for organic farming as well... mike_c Jul 2014 #122

It's not hypocritical; the link below describes the difference between organic farmers' use ... Maat Jul 2014 #126

As soon as the general public shows anything resembling competence... ag_dude Aug 2014 #139

How fascist of you. Maat Aug 2014 #158

That site is an advocacy site, tied to promoting organic products. HuckleB Aug 2014 #238

I've been on DU for quite some time ag_dude Aug 2014 #138

ok. then herbicide-ridden... magical thyme Aug 2014 #242

So you think it's wise to go with unjustified fear? HuckleB Aug 2014 #221

"But constantly dousing crops in glyphosate exacted a price." magical thyme Aug 2014 #236

Cherry picking, and failing to see the full consensus leads to wrong conclusions. HuckleB Aug 2014 #237

looking at the entire 1st page of studies returned by google is hardly cherry picking magical thyme Aug 2014 #239

Yes, it is. HuckleB Aug 2014 #240

the search terms were glyphosate toxicity magical thyme Aug 2014 #241

Ah, so now you're making claims you can't support. HuckleB Aug 2014 #243

A little more valuable information for you: HuckleB Aug 2014 #244

Well, he's infallible here, so I'll go with him on this one. nt Dreamer Tatum Jul 2014 #2

Yup, nothing like asking a physicist about biology & nutrition. appal_jack Jul 2014 #22

"Yup, nothing like asking a physicist about biology" Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #75

Look, I like Tyson (& evolutionary theory) very much. appal_jack Jul 2014 #85

When the smartest person in the room speaks... cleanhippie Jul 2014 #88

Depends on what that "smartest" person is talking about Art_from_Ark Aug 2014 #140

Are you implying that NDT is ignorant in Biology and Ecology? cleanhippie Aug 2014 #143

No, it�s possible he�s just being dishonest Chathamization Aug 2014 #146

Or... gcomeau Aug 2014 #151

People actually working on GMOs think that's a pretty huge distinction, but they're not celebrities Chathamization Aug 2014 #154

It's a difference in speed and capability. Not type. gcomeau Aug 2014 #155

Eh...so if the "difference is large" then saying they are the same might be, I dunno, incorrect? Chathamization Aug 2014 #157

No. gcomeau Aug 2014 #160

Except the people who work with GMOs say they do so because they can't get the same end products Chathamization Aug 2014 #163

Sigh... gcomeau Aug 2014 #164

Which is why �selective breeding=GMO� is as idiotic as saying �selective breeding=invasive species" Chathamization Aug 2014 #166

WHAT??? gcomeau Aug 2014 #168

Sigh�how do you think those invasive species came about? Hand planted by god? Chathamization Aug 2014 #178

Or by people carrying them from one place to another. gcomeau Aug 2014 #183

Differences between organism are largely the result of selective breeding. You've already stated Chathamization Aug 2014 #187

Is it possible that you yourself may be mistaken? cleanhippie Aug 2014 #153

Occams's razor says trust pop scientists commenting on an unrelated field rather than people working Chathamization Aug 2014 #156

That you only see NDT as a "pop scientist" speaks volumes. cleanhippie Aug 2014 #159

Oh, sorry. You were discussing his paper on the possibilities of gas-rich dwarf galaxies in the Chathamization Aug 2014 #161

You've clearly ignored your own advice. nt appal_jack Aug 2014 #218

He is talking in the abstract. Springslips Aug 2014 #144

I'm not much of a fan of him or science entertainers in general Chathamization Jul 2014 #26

He's Not Teaching Science On TV ProfessorGAC Jul 2014 #28

That's the claim; one could also claim that professional wrestling promotes interest in exercise.N/T Chathamization Jul 2014 #29

Non Sequitur Alert (eom) ProfessorGAC Jul 2014 #45

Yes. Unsubstantiated claims supporting stuff I like are nothing like unsubstantiated claims Chathamization Jul 2014 #49

I think Tyson is making an error here. immoderate Jul 2014 #3

So does hybridization. jeff47 Jul 2014 #4

So why don't I feel better? immoderate Jul 2014 #9

'Cause two Cha Jul 2014 #20

Because unfounded fears are not easily soothed with logic. (nt) jeff47 Jul 2014 #32

You're contradicting yourelf Armstead Jul 2014 #43

The unfounded fear is that a "GMO" is more dangerous than a "traditional" hybrid. (nt) jeff47 Jul 2014 #65

what you plan on eating for lunch? snooper2 Jul 2014 #36

Nonsense. appal_jack Jul 2014 #23

And that changes how other varieties were immune by..........? jeff47 Jul 2014 #31

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2014 #5

You're not alone, imm Cha Jul 2014 #19

So does this mean there is no difference between selective breading wandy Jul 2014 #6

essentially, that is correct.... mike_c Jul 2014 #37

GMO genes do not store information from the past. immoderate Jul 2014 #41

of course they do-- ALL genes store information about an organism's past.... mike_c Jul 2014 #44

Is there evidence that such lateral info transfers have occurred naturally? Gormy Cuss Jul 2014 #42

yes, it happens all the time in nature.... mike_c Jul 2014 #47

So lateral transfer has or has not been observed in multicellular organisms? Gormy Cuss Jul 2014 #115

yes, it has... mike_c Jul 2014 #116

There's a bunch of lateral transfer in the bacterial world. jeff47 Jul 2014 #66

Ahem, humans have retro viral DNA in their chromosomes. longship Aug 2014 #132

I think I understand this........... wandy Jul 2014 #64

that's a decent analogy... mike_c Jul 2014 #71

So he opposes laws intended to mandate "Contains GMO's" on labels? closeupready Jul 2014 #7

Yes, he was speaking only to DU jeff47 Jul 2014 #8

he illustrates why it's a pointless endeavor, actually Scootaloo Jul 2014 #13

Minor point BootinUp Jul 2014 #21

This is very disappointing PatSeg Jul 2014 #10

there is no material difference AT ALL between hybrids and GMOs.... mike_c Jul 2014 #40

Anti-GMO and Anti-Vaccination woo is the Left's climate change denial and creationism. DemocraticWing Jul 2014 #11

Amen. nt conservaphobe Jul 2014 #14

Agree nt Quixote1818 Jul 2014 #16

exactly-- very disappointing and embarassing.... mike_c Jul 2014 #38

Could not be more true. NuclearDem Jul 2014 #60

Yep. n/t Throd Jul 2014 #67

Agreed customerserviceguy Jul 2014 #83

All too true! HuckleB Aug 2014 #231

It's always fun to watch him talk down to idiots. conservaphobe Jul 2014 #12

Good for NDT. Iron Man Jul 2014 #15

Now Neil deGrasse Tyson goes under the DU bus. former9thward Jul 2014 #17

^^That Orrex Jul 2014 #25

Because mere disagreement is actually throwing someone under the bus... LanternWaste Jul 2014 #39

Hmmm, let's see ... former9thward Jul 2014 #53

Hmmm, let's see ... former9thward Jul 2014 #54

The wheels on the bus go round and round whistler162 Jul 2014 #24

There's a big diff betw incremental discrete hybrids & Frankenfoods 99th_Monkey Jul 2014 #107

my concern about gmos is more of an engineering one: testing time. unblock Jul 2014 #27

I'm more concerned about the unintended consequences of introducing GMOs to the environment. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #72

20 years from now... CanSocDem Jul 2014 #92

HT and BT crops HAVE been around for about two decades ag_dude Jul 2014 #119

An Astrophycist commenting on Biology. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #30

This message was self-deleted by its author laundry_queen Jul 2014 #62

does that mean you dismiss Tyson's defense of evolution...? mike_c Jul 2014 #86

You went totally off base there. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #89

ah, then I misunderstood your comment and I apologize.... mike_c Jul 2014 #91

Thanks, I can see how you would misunderstand where I'm coming from. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #95

Well said PatSeg Jul 2014 #112

just saying d_r Jul 2014 #33

I believe the distinction you're missing is that "feral" does not equal "wild..." mike_c Jul 2014 #35

one either respects and embraces science or one rejects it out of hand, preferring ignorance.... mike_c Jul 2014 #34

Saying that anyone who is anti-GMO is anti science PatSeg Jul 2014 #48

Backwards, third world countries like PatSeg Jul 2014 #50

so what do you call ignoring the reasoned, professional judgement of the majority... mike_c Jul 2014 #52

Not over the top. It's fact. kcr Jul 2014 #57

Stop linking to b.s. slanted articles ag_dude Jul 2014 #120

Gee thanks for telling me what to do (or not do) PatSeg Jul 2014 #124

Funny laundry_queen Jul 2014 #125

Thanks for the moment of sanity PatSeg Aug 2014 #130

I didn't and I don't. ag_dude Aug 2014 #137

LOL laundry_queen Aug 2014 #162

I don't care what your stance is ag_dude Aug 2014 #167

And laundry_queen Aug 2014 #169

First, who linked to anything sponsored by Monsanto? ag_dude Aug 2014 #170

I read the entire thread, oh condescending one. laundry_queen Aug 2014 #172

Predictable. ag_dude Aug 2014 #173

There's that projection again. nt laundry_queen Aug 2014 #176

Yes, you say you aren't something but you act just like it ag_dude Aug 2014 #177

You don't spend as much time here as you used to because... ag_dude Aug 2014 #136

And I have a feeling PatSeg Aug 2014 #142

No, I spend time here... ag_dude Aug 2014 #149

I would like the DUers who have a family member or friend who has been killed by GMO products Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #46

I'm impressed. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #51

Plenty of DUers with no scientific background whatsoever Maedhros Jul 2014 #55

scientific literacy doesn't require terminal degrees in every field.... mike_c Jul 2014 #56

+1 nt PasadenaTrudy Jul 2014 #81

Bravo! nt Quixote1818 Aug 2014 #129

^^That Orrex Aug 2014 #145

"I didn't know he had degrees in biology, genetics..." Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #76

All he had to do was look at the peer reviewed research Quixote1818 Aug 2014 #128

He's making the same assumption everyone else is. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2014 #141

But that's always going to be true about everything Orrex Aug 2014 #148

At what point? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2014 #201

If GMO is safe then why we had recall? wisechoice Jul 2014 #58

the recall was a procedural matter, not caused by any evidence of harm.... mike_c Jul 2014 #59

EPA is anti science? wisechoice Jul 2014 #98

of course, that's not at all what I said... mike_c Jul 2014 #108

procedural matter? wisechoice Aug 2014 #133

Like all other products, GMO can be unsafe. chrisa Jul 2014 #80

Often the argument is whether it is regulated properly wisechoice Jul 2014 #103

There are literally hundreds of types of GMOs ag_dude Jul 2014 #121

And those that slip out because wisechoice Aug 2014 #188

Perhaps you could link to actual facts? ag_dude Aug 2014 #197

now wikipedia is not legitimate source? wisechoice Aug 2014 #211

There's a difference between hybridization and round-up resistant soybeans. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #61

Kudzu is fine. Human�s have been introducing �invasive species� for thousands of years. There�s no Chathamization Jul 2014 #63

Introduced species upset the ecological balance in a region, denying that is anti-science. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #69

Poe�s law. Not surprising, given the pseudo-science being spread by the pro-GMO crowd.N/T Chathamization Jul 2014 #82

Good example. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #102

Lose the f'ing dog whistle. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #100

There was no natural precedent for the nectarine either. jeff47 Jul 2014 #68

there's a lot of FUD and biological illiteracy in your response.... mike_c Jul 2014 #74

1) to my knowledge, humans didn't traditionally hybridize corn by breeding with cyanobacteria. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #96

so is "traditional" the baseline for "acceptable?" mike_c Jul 2014 #104

We are at the stage of genetic science where drugs were at the time of thalidomide. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #110

this is what the "scientists playing God" argument has evolved into.... mike_c Jul 2014 #113

there are two different types of GM shireen Jul 2014 #70

please explain why phylogenetic distance has any relevance to the moral issue.... mike_c Jul 2014 #79

I don't know. I'm illiterate. shireen Jul 2014 #87

just about every major scientific and medical organization HAS said that GMOs are safe... mike_c Jul 2014 #90

the issue is more nuanced than that shireen Aug 2014 #150

Neil Degrasse Tyson is dead to me Enrique Jul 2014 #73

The Banana is also genetically modified. Lint Head Jul 2014 #77

Anti-GMO woo is as bad as healing crystals woo, and homeopathy woo. chrisa Jul 2014 #78

+9,000,000,000 eom MohRokTah Jul 2014 #84

I hate to break it to Dr Tyson madokie Jul 2014 #93

actually, round up resistance more than likely WAS obtained by selective breeding.... mike_c Jul 2014 #97

I'm sorry Mike madokie Jul 2014 #99

Splicing the DNA from petri dish grown cyanobacteria onto soybean DNA is just like... lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #106

best comment in this thread.... mike_c Jul 2014 #109

If the science indicated a need for labeling, I'd support it ag_dude Jul 2014 #118

I do have only one issue with his argument, traditional hybrids can't be patented... Humanist_Activist Jul 2014 #94

He's right. alarimer Jul 2014 #101

Dr. Vandana Shiva PatSeg Aug 2014 #209

scientist not approved by monsanto wisechoice Aug 2014 #212

AND PatSeg Aug 2014 #215

No wild cows? Fawke Em Jul 2014 #105

in genetics "wild" does not mean "feral..." mike_c Jul 2014 #111

I'm just now getting to this and you're correct.. Fawke Em Aug 2014 #220

NDT debunks creationist nonsense on Cosmos, collective orgasm. NuclearDem Jul 2014 #123

I guess it depends on why the GMO's were GMed tularetom Aug 2014 #127

I guess that is too simple and basic PatSeg Aug 2014 #131

It's simplistic and basic, yes ag_dude Aug 2014 #174

Funny, though, that our ancestors never spliced fish genes into a tomato. xfundy Aug 2014 #134

Why is it seen as panicking? Live and Learn Aug 2014 #135

Labeling indicates that there is a danger. ag_dude Aug 2014 #175

Those studies are biased wisechoice Aug 2014 #189

Wow, that's a keeper PatSeg Aug 2014 #193

There's your problem. It's a Wikipedia controversies page ag_dude Aug 2014 #196

No my dear PatSeg Aug 2014 #199

You are citing a Wikipedia controversies page as a source ag_dude Aug 2014 #200

And you are still PatSeg Aug 2014 #202

ill take that as a no. ag_dude Aug 2014 #204

You should take it PatSeg Aug 2014 #205

So, no, you don't know what Wikipedia controvery pages are? ag_dude Aug 2014 #206

there goes your ignorance wisechoice Aug 2014 #213

Of course PatSeg Aug 2014 #216

A Wikipedia controversies page? ag_dude Aug 2014 #195

No -- labeling indicates there is a label! immoderate Aug 2014 #207

riiiight ag_dude Aug 2014 #208

Missing the matter of who and why. Politically naive. JackRiddler Aug 2014 #147

You know PatSeg Aug 2014 #165

There was recently a new story on this laundry_queen Aug 2014 #171

I recently read two books PatSeg Aug 2014 #180

Oh, here's my area of expertise laundry_queen Aug 2014 #181

Ah, so its not my imagination then PatSeg Aug 2014 #184

No, not your imagination laundry_queen Aug 2014 #194

I have several DU friends PatSeg Aug 2014 #198

I've given up too. bananas Aug 2014 #228

With what Laundry Queen said, PatSeg Aug 2014 #229

i have wondered wisechoice Aug 2014 #210

Such people PatSeg Aug 2014 #214

I have to agree with you wisechoice Aug 2014 #185

Yep PatSeg Aug 2014 #190

Well this thread is good timing for this discussion PatSeg Aug 2014 #182

They are anti science countries wisechoice Aug 2014 #186

What is wrong with those backwards countries??? PatSeg Aug 2014 #191

That's fine that he has this point of view, but ... daggahead Aug 2014 #152

THAT is the issue he fails to address here. closeupready Aug 2014 #179

That's nice. Rex Aug 2014 #192

The World According to Monsanto PatSeg Aug 2014 #203

That's disingenuous. LWolf Aug 2014 #217

Here comes the bus! NickB79 Aug 2014 #219

Yikes. HuckleB Aug 2014 #222

fear to label food? wisechoice Aug 2014 #223

No one is afraid of labels that give actual information. HuckleB Aug 2014 #224

Then give that information wisechoice Aug 2014 #225

If he's looking for accuracy laundry_queen Aug 2014 #227

You're post is odd, at best. HuckleB Aug 2014 #230

i am trying to understand this wisechoice Aug 2014 #234

Why do you ignore the content of my post in your reply? HuckleB Aug 2014 #235

I think he just crawled under the bus and some here want to drag him back into the light of day FiveGoodMen Aug 2014 #226

Really? HuckleB Aug 2014 #232

Alas, too many scientists refrain from pointing out the obvious. HuckleB Aug 2014 #233