General Discussion

mike_c

(37,043 posts)

86. does that mean you dismiss Tyson's defense of evolution...?

Thu Jul 31, 2014, 05:03 PM

Jul 2014

Or are you being selective about which science you reject from broad scientific consensus?

If the latter, I'd really appreciate hearing your thoughts on that. For full disclosure, I'm a career academic scientist and educator, and I'm flummoxed by some people's wholesale rejection of scientific consensus on GMOs. Sure, there will always be individuals with different perspectives in every profession, but the overwhelming consensus among scientific and healthcare professionals is that GMOs are not different from non-engineered crops. And yet many people reject that consensus out of hand.

Do they distrust scientists and academics generally? That doesn't gibe with other things I hear-- generally I'm told that scientists and professors are held in high regard. Yet many people commenting in this thread evidently think we're either lying to them about GMOs or that we're not competent to find a favorable consensus. Most will probably admit to little understanding about cell biology, genetics, or ecology (for example), yet they reject the consensus of professionals. I don't understand this.

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Neil deGrasse Tyson Tells GMO Critics to "Chill Out" [View all] Quixote1818 Jul 2014 OP

and Dr. Tyson is welcome to eat all the GMO, insecticide-laden food he wants magical thyme Jul 2014 #1

Exacttly, magical thyme.. no one is "infallible". I've been eating organic food for Cha Jul 2014 #18

Exactly. Maat Jul 2014 #114

GMO and insecticide-laden are not the same thing ag_dude Jul 2014 #117

Bt is certified for organic farming as well... mike_c Jul 2014 #122

It's not hypocritical; the link below describes the difference between organic farmers' use ... Maat Jul 2014 #126

As soon as the general public shows anything resembling competence... ag_dude Aug 2014 #139

How fascist of you. Maat Aug 2014 #158

That site is an advocacy site, tied to promoting organic products. HuckleB Aug 2014 #238

I've been on DU for quite some time ag_dude Aug 2014 #138

ok. then herbicide-ridden... magical thyme Aug 2014 #242

So you think it's wise to go with unjustified fear? HuckleB Aug 2014 #221

"But constantly dousing crops in glyphosate exacted a price." magical thyme Aug 2014 #236

Cherry picking, and failing to see the full consensus leads to wrong conclusions. HuckleB Aug 2014 #237

looking at the entire 1st page of studies returned by google is hardly cherry picking magical thyme Aug 2014 #239

Yes, it is. HuckleB Aug 2014 #240

the search terms were glyphosate toxicity magical thyme Aug 2014 #241

Ah, so now you're making claims you can't support. HuckleB Aug 2014 #243

A little more valuable information for you: HuckleB Aug 2014 #244

Well, he's infallible here, so I'll go with him on this one. nt Dreamer Tatum Jul 2014 #2

Yup, nothing like asking a physicist about biology & nutrition. appal_jack Jul 2014 #22

"Yup, nothing like asking a physicist about biology" Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #75

Look, I like Tyson (& evolutionary theory) very much. appal_jack Jul 2014 #85

When the smartest person in the room speaks... cleanhippie Jul 2014 #88

Depends on what that "smartest" person is talking about Art_from_Ark Aug 2014 #140

Are you implying that NDT is ignorant in Biology and Ecology? cleanhippie Aug 2014 #143

No, it�s possible he�s just being dishonest Chathamization Aug 2014 #146

Or... gcomeau Aug 2014 #151

People actually working on GMOs think that's a pretty huge distinction, but they're not celebrities Chathamization Aug 2014 #154

It's a difference in speed and capability. Not type. gcomeau Aug 2014 #155

Eh...so if the "difference is large" then saying they are the same might be, I dunno, incorrect? Chathamization Aug 2014 #157

No. gcomeau Aug 2014 #160

Except the people who work with GMOs say they do so because they can't get the same end products Chathamization Aug 2014 #163

Sigh... gcomeau Aug 2014 #164

Which is why �selective breeding=GMO� is as idiotic as saying �selective breeding=invasive species" Chathamization Aug 2014 #166

WHAT??? gcomeau Aug 2014 #168

Sigh�how do you think those invasive species came about? Hand planted by god? Chathamization Aug 2014 #178

Or by people carrying them from one place to another. gcomeau Aug 2014 #183

Differences between organism are largely the result of selective breeding. You've already stated Chathamization Aug 2014 #187

Is it possible that you yourself may be mistaken? cleanhippie Aug 2014 #153

Occams's razor says trust pop scientists commenting on an unrelated field rather than people working Chathamization Aug 2014 #156

That you only see NDT as a "pop scientist" speaks volumes. cleanhippie Aug 2014 #159

Oh, sorry. You were discussing his paper on the possibilities of gas-rich dwarf galaxies in the Chathamization Aug 2014 #161

You've clearly ignored your own advice. nt appal_jack Aug 2014 #218

He is talking in the abstract. Springslips Aug 2014 #144

I'm not much of a fan of him or science entertainers in general Chathamization Jul 2014 #26

He's Not Teaching Science On TV ProfessorGAC Jul 2014 #28

That's the claim; one could also claim that professional wrestling promotes interest in exercise.N/T Chathamization Jul 2014 #29

Non Sequitur Alert (eom) ProfessorGAC Jul 2014 #45

Yes. Unsubstantiated claims supporting stuff I like are nothing like unsubstantiated claims Chathamization Jul 2014 #49

I think Tyson is making an error here. immoderate Jul 2014 #3

So does hybridization. jeff47 Jul 2014 #4

So why don't I feel better? immoderate Jul 2014 #9

'Cause two Cha Jul 2014 #20

Because unfounded fears are not easily soothed with logic. (nt) jeff47 Jul 2014 #32

You're contradicting yourelf Armstead Jul 2014 #43

The unfounded fear is that a "GMO" is more dangerous than a "traditional" hybrid. (nt) jeff47 Jul 2014 #65

what you plan on eating for lunch? snooper2 Jul 2014 #36

Nonsense. appal_jack Jul 2014 #23

And that changes how other varieties were immune by..........? jeff47 Jul 2014 #31

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2014 #5

You're not alone, imm Cha Jul 2014 #19

So does this mean there is no difference between selective breading wandy Jul 2014 #6

essentially, that is correct.... mike_c Jul 2014 #37

GMO genes do not store information from the past. immoderate Jul 2014 #41

of course they do-- ALL genes store information about an organism's past.... mike_c Jul 2014 #44

Is there evidence that such lateral info transfers have occurred naturally? Gormy Cuss Jul 2014 #42

yes, it happens all the time in nature.... mike_c Jul 2014 #47

So lateral transfer has or has not been observed in multicellular organisms? Gormy Cuss Jul 2014 #115

yes, it has... mike_c Jul 2014 #116

There's a bunch of lateral transfer in the bacterial world. jeff47 Jul 2014 #66

Ahem, humans have retro viral DNA in their chromosomes. longship Aug 2014 #132

I think I understand this........... wandy Jul 2014 #64

that's a decent analogy... mike_c Jul 2014 #71

So he opposes laws intended to mandate "Contains GMO's" on labels? closeupready Jul 2014 #7

Yes, he was speaking only to DU jeff47 Jul 2014 #8

he illustrates why it's a pointless endeavor, actually Scootaloo Jul 2014 #13

Minor point BootinUp Jul 2014 #21

This is very disappointing PatSeg Jul 2014 #10

there is no material difference AT ALL between hybrids and GMOs.... mike_c Jul 2014 #40

Anti-GMO and Anti-Vaccination woo is the Left's climate change denial and creationism. DemocraticWing Jul 2014 #11

Amen. nt conservaphobe Jul 2014 #14

Agree nt Quixote1818 Jul 2014 #16

exactly-- very disappointing and embarassing.... mike_c Jul 2014 #38

Could not be more true. NuclearDem Jul 2014 #60

Yep. n/t Throd Jul 2014 #67

Agreed customerserviceguy Jul 2014 #83

All too true! HuckleB Aug 2014 #231

It's always fun to watch him talk down to idiots. conservaphobe Jul 2014 #12

Good for NDT. Iron Man Jul 2014 #15

Now Neil deGrasse Tyson goes under the DU bus. former9thward Jul 2014 #17

^^That Orrex Jul 2014 #25

Because mere disagreement is actually throwing someone under the bus... LanternWaste Jul 2014 #39

Hmmm, let's see ... former9thward Jul 2014 #53

Hmmm, let's see ... former9thward Jul 2014 #54

The wheels on the bus go round and round whistler162 Jul 2014 #24

There's a big diff betw incremental discrete hybrids & Frankenfoods 99th_Monkey Jul 2014 #107

my concern about gmos is more of an engineering one: testing time. unblock Jul 2014 #27

I'm more concerned about the unintended consequences of introducing GMOs to the environment. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #72

20 years from now... CanSocDem Jul 2014 #92

HT and BT crops HAVE been around for about two decades ag_dude Jul 2014 #119

An Astrophycist commenting on Biology. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #30

This message was self-deleted by its author laundry_queen Jul 2014 #62

does that mean you dismiss Tyson's defense of evolution...? mike_c Jul 2014 #86

You went totally off base there. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #89

ah, then I misunderstood your comment and I apologize.... mike_c Jul 2014 #91

Thanks, I can see how you would misunderstand where I'm coming from. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #95

Well said PatSeg Jul 2014 #112

just saying d_r Jul 2014 #33

I believe the distinction you're missing is that "feral" does not equal "wild..." mike_c Jul 2014 #35

one either respects and embraces science or one rejects it out of hand, preferring ignorance.... mike_c Jul 2014 #34

Saying that anyone who is anti-GMO is anti science PatSeg Jul 2014 #48

Backwards, third world countries like PatSeg Jul 2014 #50

so what do you call ignoring the reasoned, professional judgement of the majority... mike_c Jul 2014 #52

Not over the top. It's fact. kcr Jul 2014 #57

Stop linking to b.s. slanted articles ag_dude Jul 2014 #120

Gee thanks for telling me what to do (or not do) PatSeg Jul 2014 #124

Funny laundry_queen Jul 2014 #125

Thanks for the moment of sanity PatSeg Aug 2014 #130

I didn't and I don't. ag_dude Aug 2014 #137

LOL laundry_queen Aug 2014 #162

I don't care what your stance is ag_dude Aug 2014 #167

And laundry_queen Aug 2014 #169

First, who linked to anything sponsored by Monsanto? ag_dude Aug 2014 #170

I read the entire thread, oh condescending one. laundry_queen Aug 2014 #172

Predictable. ag_dude Aug 2014 #173

There's that projection again. nt laundry_queen Aug 2014 #176

Yes, you say you aren't something but you act just like it ag_dude Aug 2014 #177

You don't spend as much time here as you used to because... ag_dude Aug 2014 #136

And I have a feeling PatSeg Aug 2014 #142

No, I spend time here... ag_dude Aug 2014 #149

I would like the DUers who have a family member or friend who has been killed by GMO products Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #46

I'm impressed. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #51

Plenty of DUers with no scientific background whatsoever Maedhros Jul 2014 #55

scientific literacy doesn't require terminal degrees in every field.... mike_c Jul 2014 #56

+1 nt PasadenaTrudy Jul 2014 #81

Bravo! nt Quixote1818 Aug 2014 #129

^^That Orrex Aug 2014 #145

"I didn't know he had degrees in biology, genetics..." Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #76

All he had to do was look at the peer reviewed research Quixote1818 Aug 2014 #128

He's making the same assumption everyone else is. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2014 #141

But that's always going to be true about everything Orrex Aug 2014 #148

At what point? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2014 #201

If GMO is safe then why we had recall? wisechoice Jul 2014 #58

the recall was a procedural matter, not caused by any evidence of harm.... mike_c Jul 2014 #59

EPA is anti science? wisechoice Jul 2014 #98

of course, that's not at all what I said... mike_c Jul 2014 #108

procedural matter? wisechoice Aug 2014 #133

Like all other products, GMO can be unsafe. chrisa Jul 2014 #80

Often the argument is whether it is regulated properly wisechoice Jul 2014 #103

There are literally hundreds of types of GMOs ag_dude Jul 2014 #121

And those that slip out because wisechoice Aug 2014 #188

Perhaps you could link to actual facts? ag_dude Aug 2014 #197

now wikipedia is not legitimate source? wisechoice Aug 2014 #211

There's a difference between hybridization and round-up resistant soybeans. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #61

Kudzu is fine. Human�s have been introducing �invasive species� for thousands of years. There�s no Chathamization Jul 2014 #63

Introduced species upset the ecological balance in a region, denying that is anti-science. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #69

Poe�s law. Not surprising, given the pseudo-science being spread by the pro-GMO crowd.N/T Chathamization Jul 2014 #82

Good example. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #102

Lose the f'ing dog whistle. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #100

There was no natural precedent for the nectarine either. jeff47 Jul 2014 #68

there's a lot of FUD and biological illiteracy in your response.... mike_c Jul 2014 #74

1) to my knowledge, humans didn't traditionally hybridize corn by breeding with cyanobacteria. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #96

so is "traditional" the baseline for "acceptable?" mike_c Jul 2014 #104

We are at the stage of genetic science where drugs were at the time of thalidomide. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #110

this is what the "scientists playing God" argument has evolved into.... mike_c Jul 2014 #113

there are two different types of GM shireen Jul 2014 #70

please explain why phylogenetic distance has any relevance to the moral issue.... mike_c Jul 2014 #79

I don't know. I'm illiterate. shireen Jul 2014 #87

just about every major scientific and medical organization HAS said that GMOs are safe... mike_c Jul 2014 #90

the issue is more nuanced than that shireen Aug 2014 #150

Neil Degrasse Tyson is dead to me Enrique Jul 2014 #73

The Banana is also genetically modified. Lint Head Jul 2014 #77

Anti-GMO woo is as bad as healing crystals woo, and homeopathy woo. chrisa Jul 2014 #78

+9,000,000,000 eom MohRokTah Jul 2014 #84

I hate to break it to Dr Tyson madokie Jul 2014 #93

actually, round up resistance more than likely WAS obtained by selective breeding.... mike_c Jul 2014 #97

I'm sorry Mike madokie Jul 2014 #99

Splicing the DNA from petri dish grown cyanobacteria onto soybean DNA is just like... lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #106

best comment in this thread.... mike_c Jul 2014 #109

If the science indicated a need for labeling, I'd support it ag_dude Jul 2014 #118

I do have only one issue with his argument, traditional hybrids can't be patented... Humanist_Activist Jul 2014 #94

He's right. alarimer Jul 2014 #101

Dr. Vandana Shiva PatSeg Aug 2014 #209

scientist not approved by monsanto wisechoice Aug 2014 #212

AND PatSeg Aug 2014 #215

No wild cows? Fawke Em Jul 2014 #105

in genetics "wild" does not mean "feral..." mike_c Jul 2014 #111

I'm just now getting to this and you're correct.. Fawke Em Aug 2014 #220

NDT debunks creationist nonsense on Cosmos, collective orgasm. NuclearDem Jul 2014 #123

I guess it depends on why the GMO's were GMed tularetom Aug 2014 #127

I guess that is too simple and basic PatSeg Aug 2014 #131

It's simplistic and basic, yes ag_dude Aug 2014 #174

Funny, though, that our ancestors never spliced fish genes into a tomato. xfundy Aug 2014 #134

Why is it seen as panicking? Live and Learn Aug 2014 #135

Labeling indicates that there is a danger. ag_dude Aug 2014 #175

Those studies are biased wisechoice Aug 2014 #189

Wow, that's a keeper PatSeg Aug 2014 #193

There's your problem. It's a Wikipedia controversies page ag_dude Aug 2014 #196

No my dear PatSeg Aug 2014 #199

You are citing a Wikipedia controversies page as a source ag_dude Aug 2014 #200

And you are still PatSeg Aug 2014 #202

ill take that as a no. ag_dude Aug 2014 #204

You should take it PatSeg Aug 2014 #205

So, no, you don't know what Wikipedia controvery pages are? ag_dude Aug 2014 #206

there goes your ignorance wisechoice Aug 2014 #213

Of course PatSeg Aug 2014 #216

A Wikipedia controversies page? ag_dude Aug 2014 #195

No -- labeling indicates there is a label! immoderate Aug 2014 #207

riiiight ag_dude Aug 2014 #208

Missing the matter of who and why. Politically naive. JackRiddler Aug 2014 #147

You know PatSeg Aug 2014 #165

There was recently a new story on this laundry_queen Aug 2014 #171

I recently read two books PatSeg Aug 2014 #180

Oh, here's my area of expertise laundry_queen Aug 2014 #181

Ah, so its not my imagination then PatSeg Aug 2014 #184

No, not your imagination laundry_queen Aug 2014 #194

I have several DU friends PatSeg Aug 2014 #198

I've given up too. bananas Aug 2014 #228

With what Laundry Queen said, PatSeg Aug 2014 #229

i have wondered wisechoice Aug 2014 #210

Such people PatSeg Aug 2014 #214

I have to agree with you wisechoice Aug 2014 #185

Yep PatSeg Aug 2014 #190

Well this thread is good timing for this discussion PatSeg Aug 2014 #182

They are anti science countries wisechoice Aug 2014 #186

What is wrong with those backwards countries??? PatSeg Aug 2014 #191

That's fine that he has this point of view, but ... daggahead Aug 2014 #152

THAT is the issue he fails to address here. closeupready Aug 2014 #179

That's nice. Rex Aug 2014 #192

The World According to Monsanto PatSeg Aug 2014 #203

That's disingenuous. LWolf Aug 2014 #217

Here comes the bus! NickB79 Aug 2014 #219

Yikes. HuckleB Aug 2014 #222

fear to label food? wisechoice Aug 2014 #223

No one is afraid of labels that give actual information. HuckleB Aug 2014 #224

Then give that information wisechoice Aug 2014 #225

If he's looking for accuracy laundry_queen Aug 2014 #227

You're post is odd, at best. HuckleB Aug 2014 #230

i am trying to understand this wisechoice Aug 2014 #234

Why do you ignore the content of my post in your reply? HuckleB Aug 2014 #235

I think he just crawled under the bus and some here want to drag him back into the light of day FiveGoodMen Aug 2014 #226

Really? HuckleB Aug 2014 #232

Alas, too many scientists refrain from pointing out the obvious. HuckleB Aug 2014 #233