General Discussion

cheapdate

(3,811 posts)

98. I'm not saying that at all.

Sat Aug 2, 2014, 01:43 AM

Aug 2014

I'm saying that the average American doesn't embrace anti-American beliefs or rhetoric and that the kinds of people who run for and win the presidency aren't the kind of people who embrace anti-American beliefs or rhetoric either.

Your idea that the president is "powerless" must be premised on the idea that Barack Obama is truly in his heart a pro-Palestinian, anti-imperialist, Code Pink, anti-war activist and only the hidden powers behind the throne are keeping him reined in.

Nothing could be farther from the truth. Obama has been consistent since he was only a candidate. He has never said anything other than expressing America's "unwavering support" for Israel. He's never said anything other than that he would pursue anyone who would harm the country "wherever they are found".

He says this because he believes it. It's who he is. His views are nothing but those of a traditional American politician. Always have been.

I'm not sure I follow your "military coup" argument.

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Pres. Obama is hoping that we're goddamn idiots out here, still cowed by talk of 9-11 [View all] bigtree Aug 2014 OP

Torture is criminal behavior no matter what motivates the torturer. Blecht Aug 2014 #1

Oh, please. conservaphobe Aug 2014 #2

let's see who lines up behind this sentiment of yours bigtree Aug 2014 #5

Ignore Ignorance billhicks76 Aug 2014 #47

So, most humans aren't decent... brooklynite Aug 2014 #139

How do you think Obama can wave the presidential magic wand BainsBane Aug 2014 #174

Torture is illegal in the United States. No international body is required to execute our own laws. TheKentuckian Aug 2014 #175

How do you think a prosecution could proceed? BainsBane Aug 2014 #182

Are you arguing that if I torture someone that there are no laws to hold me accountable? TheKentuckian Aug 2014 #184

No, I asked you what the legal basis you think is for acting on government officials BainsBane Aug 2014 #185

Government officials don't have a separate legal system, that is supposed to be a feature. TheKentuckian Aug 2014 #192

Oh Right He's Powerless billhicks76 Aug 2014 #176

So it is what he says that bothers you BainsBane Aug 2014 #179

Uh No? billhicks76 Aug 2014 #183

How could "using the bully pulpit" BainsBane Aug 2014 #186

Use Your imagination billhicks76 Aug 2014 #189

Use my imagination? BainsBane Aug 2014 #191

Wow billhicks76 Aug 2014 #217

Just because something SHOULD happen doesn't mean it is a viable option. nt conservaphobe Aug 2014 #76

that's in the constitution, isn't it? bigtree Aug 2014 #83

So people who call for something that should happen to really happen are 'no better than teabaggers' muriel_volestrangler Aug 2014 #122

Well put muriel. nm rhett o rick Aug 2014 #142

Torture Report billhicks76 Aug 2014 #180

Viable Option? billhicks76 Aug 2014 #178

Pragmatic Pragmatism is pragmatic bobduca Aug 2014 #198

LOL Blecht Aug 2014 #8

Sock Puppets billhicks76 Aug 2014 #48

You still here? Rex Aug 2014 #9

Lol! NealK Aug 2014 #36

Yes. conservaphobe Aug 2014 #77

Well, what is law breaking then if not criminal behavior? Dragonfli Aug 2014 #11

"But hey, I was only following orders...." n/t DocwillCuNow Aug 2014 #126

Otherwise known as the Nuremberg defense /nt Dragonfli Aug 2014 #127

Law breaking only matters if you're poor. boomer55 Aug 2014 #135

I agree, I even wrote an OP about it Dragonfli Aug 2014 #136

What then is it? TheKentuckian Aug 2014 #13

�Oh, please.� yourself. SammyWinstonJack Aug 2014 #14

The projection, it burns. JackRiddler Aug 2014 #15

That's the dumbest goddamned thing I've read all day. nt ChisolmTrailDem Aug 2014 #16

. ReRe Aug 2014 #35

No shit! blackspade Aug 2014 #43

+1000 n/t Aerows Aug 2014 #67

I guess you haven't made a visit to Truth Out, Commondreams, or FDL today. nt conservaphobe Aug 2014 #78

I don't need to visit those places when I can see you make the dumbest ChisolmTrailDem Aug 2014 #95

So tell us where you like to "visit". nm rhett o rick Aug 2014 #144

In a world chock full of dumb stuff, that is saying something. Enthusiast Aug 2014 #110

Amen to that!! n/t KarenS Aug 2014 #187

Oh Please. If you think that is any kind of intelligent argument you are delusional. rhett o rick Aug 2014 #55

. stonecutter357 Aug 2014 #119

Anyone Notice? billhicks76 Aug 2014 #168

Same as on the school ground. The same kids always sided with the bullies. rhett o rick Aug 2014 #171

Or Maybe billhicks76 Aug 2014 #172

Perhaps both. HooptieWagon Aug 2014 #194

don't be so santamonious stonecutter357 Aug 2014 #218

Not sure who you are arguing with. Israel has a right to defend itself, I agree. Just as the USofA rhett o rick Aug 2014 #219

Yeah you Astroturf Torture cheerleaders are no better than the teabaggers bobduca Aug 2014 #63

I don't support torture. Neither does the President. conservaphobe Aug 2014 #75

Yeah torture without consequences! USA! USA! neverforget Aug 2014 #80

No one said it isn't frustrating. conservaphobe Aug 2014 #81

Frustrating? It's not frustrating. It's fucking obscene if they get away with neverforget Aug 2014 #82

Yeah you got it right. I'm so pissed a Ronald Reagan right now I can't see straight. Autumn Aug 2014 #88

"misdirection" is the tell n/t bobduca Aug 2014 #199

Presumably the anger should be directed at something else. sibelian Aug 2014 #200

You are starting to let you mask slip. Welcome back, btw. morningfog Aug 2014 #73

I didn't get a sense of this at all, from his speech... I will have to agree with you. secondwind Aug 2014 #107

Wow, those who oppose torture = Teabaggers???? sabrina 1 Aug 2014 #124

Greetings fellow teabagger ...who opposes torture... L0oniX Aug 2014 #138

Wait until they start calling you a terrorist, or a Putin lover! Lol! sabrina 1 Aug 2014 #149

Let's cut to the chase: If someone tortures another person, and that person is innocent of a crime, grahamhgreen Aug 2014 #158

Please What? billhicks76 Aug 2014 #166

Oh hell yes! montanacowboy Aug 2014 #3

This is where the president and I part company. AtomicKitten Aug 2014 #4

in the speech he said torture was wrong several times, and that he banned the practice. i agree dionysus Aug 2014 #65

My concern is without prosecution AtomicKitten Aug 2014 #69

I think that's correct, AtomicKitten. An Executive Order from this President outlaws practices now bigtree Aug 2014 #74

That is exactly why the torture act and the war crimes act need to be amended Vattel Aug 2014 #79

We know who - GWB, Cheney. It's not just "wrong" it's illegal, a war crime. grahamhgreen Aug 2014 #159

i know graham, but if you tried prosecuting bush and cheney for treason and war crimes, you'd have dionysus Aug 2014 #164

You are wrong. We are better than that. Besides, it's our duty and obligation, not prosecuting makes grahamhgreen Aug 2014 #165

I didn't realize the legal system had been replaced by guesstimates of hypothetical polls TheKentuckian Aug 2014 #177

Can't we get the torturers names from wikileaks or Snowden? nilesobek Aug 2014 #188

Planned well in advance of 9/11. Lots of Shock Doctrine in that little speech of his. blkmusclmachine Aug 2014 #6

His defense of Brennan's perjuring ass is unconscionable! n/t markpkessinger Aug 2014 #7

He is obligated to. Brennan has a higher pay grade. nm rhett o rick Aug 2014 #56

So not going to fix the problem? No offense sir, but the CIA just admitted to spying on Congress. Rex Aug 2014 #10

"We tortured some folks." democrank Aug 2014 #12

See? Bush would have said "We tortured some terrorists." rug Aug 2014 #29

Damn, you stole my line! NealK Aug 2014 #39

WTF? A lot of those folks... are real patriots? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2014 #17

War is Peace. Torturers are Patriots. woo me with science Aug 2014 #215

He's excusing atrocities because the guilty parties were jittery? Damn. Bluenorthwest Aug 2014 #18

Any President we get, from the way that our "free elections" truedelphi Aug 2014 #140

He is afraid of this cabal in our government that uses our military power JDPriestly Aug 2014 #19

The worst President in my 70-year lifetime ... DrBulldog Aug 2014 #20

Best president in my lifetime MohRokTah Aug 2014 #22

What a ludicrous post LordGlenconner Aug 2014 #23

what a load of JaydenD Aug 2014 #24

!!! zappaman Aug 2014 #30

"Obama is a wimp who shames our nation" Freeper quote or DU quote? emulatorloo Aug 2014 #84

They are still sore over him getting OBL and their hero not giving a shit. Rex Aug 2014 #89

FREEPER ALERT secondwind Aug 2014 #108

Obama 2016! stonecutter357 Aug 2014 #120

Hey if the shoe fits... LordGlenconner Aug 2014 #21

Oh, I get it. It was like road rage. She was driving too slow so I brained her with a hammer. Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2014 #25

excellent analysis grasswire Aug 2014 #26

unrec rbrnmw Aug 2014 #27

I'm a fan of the president, rbrnmw bigtree Aug 2014 #38

When isn't it an election cycle? Savannahmann Aug 2014 #64

Obama is not running for office. grasswire Aug 2014 #90

His remarks are new and they suck whether it's an election cycle or not. Hissyspit Aug 2014 #103

There is a Group here that is made just for you. If you hang out in GD rhett o rick Aug 2014 #145

So racist! LibertAAAAAArians everywhere! sibelian Aug 2014 #201

maybe world courts should move in. we seem unable to prosecute our own. spanone Aug 2014 #28

"We tortured some folks" and Jackpine Radical Aug 2014 #31

Wasn't CIA barred by law from spying internally? mazzarro Aug 2014 #32

I'm no expert bigtree Aug 2014 #45

CIA held to mere "laws" Shirley you jest. nm rhett o rick Aug 2014 #61

Where. The. Fuck. Is. Prosense? ChisolmTrailDem Aug 2014 #33

Promoted? Posting on DU is now below her paygrade? Divernan Aug 2014 #118

I thought perhaps shame had finally overcome her. grasswire Aug 2014 #129

Developing her own wiki, I'd imagine. sibelian Aug 2014 #202

No comment, n/t Duval Aug 2014 #34

I second that emotion. NealK Aug 2014 #41

Fuck. This. BULLSHIT. kath Aug 2014 #37

"We did some things that were contrary to our values." rock Aug 2014 #40

WTH is Obama doing? blackspade Aug 2014 #42

Perhaps backing away from the Geneva Convention to take out terrorists here in the US after DhhD Aug 2014 #125

Isn't admitting you have a problem the first and hardest step? Johonny Aug 2014 #44

Might as well make excuses for rapists and child molesters too. GoneFishin Aug 2014 #46

Two Democratic senators demanded that Central Intelligence Agency Director John Brennan resign... PoliticAverse Aug 2014 #49

Nice try but Brennan is part of the ruling branch of government (NSA/CIA) that out ranks rhett o rick Aug 2014 #58

It beats all I've ever seen, bigtree ReRe Aug 2014 #50

There's only so far that a United States president can or will go cheapdate Aug 2014 #51

Agreed. TwilightGardener Aug 2014 #70

Do you realize what you just wrote? BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #92

I'm pretty sure I do. cheapdate Aug 2014 #96

You are saying there has been a military coup in this country BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #97

I'm not saying that at all. cheapdate Aug 2014 #98

I'm not really sure what you're talking about BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #99

I'm in more than one discussion. cheapdate Aug 2014 #100

. stonecutter357 Aug 2014 #121

I think that the CIA has become so powerful, it's like it's own, rogue branch of government, dionysus Aug 2014 #153

Agreed BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #167

agree flamingdem Aug 2014 #101

Really - tell it to the whistleblowers in jail. grahamhgreen Aug 2014 #160

OK...I'll try...here goes: cheapdate Aug 2014 #173

In reality, they are bound by this oath: grahamhgreen Aug 2014 #195

We are in agreement, I'm sure, on quite a lot. cheapdate Aug 2014 #206

I understand, yet believe firmly that the country would be in far better shape now grahamhgreen Aug 2014 #208

I don't think so, but who knows? cheapdate Aug 2014 #210

No, the polling data clearly shows the public far to the left of DU, and the corporate war machine. grahamhgreen Aug 2014 #212

That sounds really good cheapdate Aug 2014 #214

Afghanistan war on terror??? Most unpopular in history: grahamhgreen Aug 2014 #216

in a sane country graham, i'd agree with you. that's the only thing i think we disagree on. i don't dionysus Aug 2014 #211

Meantime, the R's will impeach Obama on a whim. grahamhgreen Aug 2014 #213

People weren't tortured out of fear. They were tortured due to sadism. Ash_F Aug 2014 #52

Maybe he's trying to Politicalboi Aug 2014 #53

"The United States is a rogue, criminal, terrorist, enterprise..." cheapdate Aug 2014 #54

Well that is how you move the Democrats to the right. zeemike Aug 2014 #57

jesus, he said several times in the clip that it was wrong and against our values and he banned such dionysus Aug 2014 #66

Don't confuse me with the facts. emulatorloo Aug 2014 #85

Why wouldn't they? We can strangle their funding. We can fire the head of the CIA. nt Mojorabbit Aug 2014 #155

I think Brennan is a figurehead, go ahead and fire him. i bet we don't even know the names of the dionysus Aug 2014 #156

If they do not comply with a legal order then you frogmarch them to jail. TheKentuckian Aug 2014 #181

So who do they work for? If they received an order to fork over the names from someone? bobduca Aug 2014 #197

i don't think the CIA works for anyone anymore, i consider them a rogue branch of government. I dionysus Aug 2014 #207

Yes, and now a whole bunch of pseudo lefties will go "awwww" sibelian Aug 2014 #203

So when Saddam tortured people, was he too very patriotic and just under pressure? sabrina 1 Aug 2014 #59

"...hopefully we don't do it again...." is a feckless substitute for prosecuting Bush et al. xocet Aug 2014 #102

yeah. let's pretend we're not still torturing... KG Aug 2014 #60

that's why i believe he never went after Bush and Co. m-lekktor Aug 2014 #62

But it is not about torture - that is only a diversion. kentuck Aug 2014 #68

well bigtree Aug 2014 #72

Excellent question. kentuck Aug 2014 #163

This is horrifying. AzDar Aug 2014 #71

After the Clapper scenario sadoldgirl Aug 2014 #86

on the other hand bigtree Aug 2014 #87

Independent Counsel time. grasswire Aug 2014 #91

you're on to something bigtree Aug 2014 #94

Sigh...that law expired 15 years ago. The last Special Counsel we had was Patrick Fitzgerald. msanthrope Aug 2014 #105

Release The 28 Pages billhicks76 Aug 2014 #93

He is an extremely HUGE-ASS disappointment. DeSwiss Aug 2014 #104

I did not get a sense of this at all, from his speech.... I think it was a very good one. secondwind Aug 2014 #106

WTF? It is simply true that the nation was treestar Aug 2014 #109

Mr. President, real patriots do not torture. I think you are confused. Or something. Enthusiast Aug 2014 #111

No, that wasn't his point. His point was that the country is in a very different position today pnwmom Aug 2014 #112

Americans were wrong then. Wrong and weak. grasswire Aug 2014 #128

Obama stopped the torture and got us out of Iraq. pnwmom Aug 2014 #146

Some days I'm ashamed to be an American. Scuba Aug 2014 #113

Looks like Brennan's little spying gig worked out pangaia Aug 2014 #114

"Folks" is the signal that the President is merely passing along a talking point Babel_17 Aug 2014 #115

good point grasswire Aug 2014 #131

"We tortured some folks," It's not a fuckng C&W song! (nt) mr blur Aug 2014 #116

"We did some things that were contrary to our values." rhett o rick Aug 2014 #117

I am of the opinion that Obama's decision not to at least appoint a commission was a major err. olegramps Aug 2014 #123

your assessment is thoughtful, but generous. grasswire Aug 2014 #132

I would welcome an elaboration. I am not sure of your meaning. olegramps Aug 2014 #134

He says Obama is "perpetuating terror." That's his opinion. n/t pnwmom Aug 2014 #147

Yep... you got it...they are crazy for power polynomial Aug 2014 #151

That is an interesting twist. olegramps Aug 2014 #205

Thanks to BigTree for the post . . FairWinds Aug 2014 #130

"We tortured some folks," he said. NYC_SKP Aug 2014 #133

How noble he is. sibelian Aug 2014 #204

Truth is evasive and Obama owns the discharge of war criminals as well as the banksters. L0oniX Aug 2014 #137

Hands Up! Who thinks we should impeach President Obama!? brooklynite Aug 2014 #141

Everyone is arguing about torture and nothing else, which was probably intended. QuestForSense Aug 2014 #143

everyone? bigtree Aug 2014 #150

My bad. I ought to have said 'in general.' QuestForSense Aug 2014 #162

Yep. Most of the Senate is silent, and Chambliss even defended Brennan. TwilightGardener Aug 2014 #152

I hear you loud and clear. QuestForSense Aug 2014 #169

They're all fully aware of how stupid the general American public is. Zorra Aug 2014 #148

And the infiltration continues. Lining up early for the 2016 election. Getting up your post counts Pisces Aug 2014 #154

let's see bigtree Aug 2014 #157

You are none of those things leftstreet Aug 2014 #170

Let's cut to the chase. Should a torturer be prosecuted? grahamhgreen Aug 2014 #161

Big Tree "infiltrated" in 2003, as did I BuelahWitch Aug 2014 #196

The Bush administration's wars of aggression, torture, renditions, fiscal madness, Constitution- indepat Aug 2014 #190

Bush is a goddamn criminal and should be tried for war crimes. Lint Head Aug 2014 #193

K&R woo me with science Aug 2014 #209