General Discussion

BainsBane

(57,760 posts)

5. I have a suggestion

Mon Aug 4, 2014, 05:06 AM

Aug 2014

I think it would be helpful if we moved beyond arguing about Obama to focusing on issues and what we can do about them, much as you did in your OP about how to pressure the government to act on prosecuting torturers. Ultimately, what people think about Obama really isn't as important as what WE all can do to make a difference. Obama is not running for election again, but we all continue to live in this country and world. What I find most frustrating is that many seem to want to wait for a President, either this or the next, to give them what they want. That is an exercise in futility. Politicians will not act in meaningful ways without relentless pressure from below, when they are left with no other choice. If we could focus on the issues we want to do something about, I think that would be far more productive than arguing endlessly about a man who will only be in office two more years.

Cannot edit, recommend, or reply in locked discussions

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

125 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

This message was self-deleted by its author [View all] bigtree Aug 2014 OP

If nothing else, your posts are sincere, in good faith and well morningfog Aug 2014 #1

There is a vast difference ... NanceGreggs Aug 2014 #4

That was very well put. n/t bvf Aug 2014 #7

What do you think the President should do about the war crimes of the Bush administration? nm rhett o rick Aug 2014 #75

So are we going to prosecute those he now admits were responsible sabrina 1 Aug 2014 #23

Probably not, I will still vote for ANY Democrat over ANY republican in EVERY election randys1 Aug 2014 #78

Seems your justification for attacking a DU poster is that you disagree. rhett o rick Aug 2014 #74

It wasn't a matter of "disagreement". NanceGreggs Aug 2014 #77

Bigtree didn't attribute a non-existent quote to the President. Vattel Aug 2014 #89

Well, at least they didn't gang-up on you and have your post hidden. DeSwiss Aug 2014 #2

Nice try. NanceGreggs Aug 2014 #3

Obama's words: DeSwiss Aug 2014 #17

Seems pretty obvious on its face. NanceGreggs Aug 2014 #69

You misunderstand. DeSwiss Aug 2014 #72

+1 ~ I strongly suspect that those who committed acts of torture took perverse pleasure Zorra Aug 2014 #88

And we'll be sanctimonious together! DeSwiss Aug 2014 #91

"It's never okay." woo me with science Aug 2014 #102

That is a FACT, the torturers as we saw in the photos from Abu Ghraib, enjoyed sabrina 1 Aug 2014 #114

No one is claiming that all of "our law enforcement and our national security teams" rhett o rick Aug 2014 #86

I don't disagree ... NanceGreggs Aug 2014 #87

Your mincing words. I agree with bigtree and think your reference to FoxNews bullshit a low rhett o rick Aug 2014 #97

Your interpretation does not make sense. Yes, he was talking Dark n Stormy Knight Aug 2014 #98

Thank you. You said it much better than I could. Her interpretation also doen't make sense rhett o rick Aug 2014 #105

I don't know what you think I have said ... NanceGreggs Aug 2014 #107

Who is US, and what should US/WE not feel sanctimonious about? sabrina 1 Aug 2014 #112

Torture is an issue, is it not? I read what the president said now that there is no way sabrina 1 Aug 2014 #25

lack of courage wasn't the reason for deleting the post bigtree Aug 2014 #70

I never characterized ... NanceGreggs Aug 2014 #73

differences of opinion bigtree Aug 2014 #76

I have not expressed my personal opinion ... NanceGreggs Aug 2014 #81

on that opinion, we disagree bigtree Aug 2014 #84

I have a suggestion BainsBane Aug 2014 #5

We can't change the past. littlemissmartypants Aug 2014 #6

Absolutely not. Not here, not from Democrats. Maybe in China, Russia, N. Korea w/ single party rule whereisjustice Aug 2014 #8

Have you watched the shock doctrine? littlemissmartypants Aug 2014 #9

PLUS ONE! Enthusiast Aug 2014 #10

Here's my world. I would hardly characterize it as a "cesspool of corruption" littlemissmartypants Aug 2014 #13

Perspective: NC is one of the 29 States in which it is legal to discriminate against LGBT people Bluenorthwest Aug 2014 #19

And your point is... littlemissmartypants Aug 2014 #26

... littlemissmartypants Aug 2014 #28

That link says what I said about NC. Very bad laws about LGBT people, no protections and this Bluenorthwest Aug 2014 #32

By participating in Moral Mondays smartypants is working for change mcar Aug 2014 #34

Thank you. nt littlemissmartypants Aug 2014 #40

You are welcome mcar Aug 2014 #59

I just don't get your beef. I wish I could. littlemissmartypants Aug 2014 #39

Did you go? SMC22307 Aug 2014 #109

Kicked and recommended! Enthusiast Aug 2014 #11

Great post bigtree. I found it disingenuous that your post was parsed .... Scuba Aug 2014 #12

We are getting closer and closer to the point where we must decide whose side we are on. rhett o rick Aug 2014 #41

Next time I'll use three s's, it'll average out. Scuba Aug 2014 #42

With my spelling inability, I wouldn't notice without spell check. Actually, I am on my third spell rhett o rick Aug 2014 #48

It's very difficult to effectively proofread one's own work. Scuba Aug 2014 #51

I was tested as a child and found out that I had a defective spelling jene. rhett o rick Aug 2014 #54

+1 ...should be it's own op. L0oniX Aug 2014 #65

parsing is a tactic, an annoying tactic grasswire Aug 2014 #62

Another tactic is saying that "my opinion is the truth and if you disagree you are a right-winger, rhett o rick Aug 2014 #108

And another tactic is... cui bono Aug 2014 #124

A rational person cannot defend the Indefensible Demeter Aug 2014 #14

Irrational and easily agitated, apparently. eom littlemissmartypants Aug 2014 #15

Bigtree, thank you for your interesting and thoughtful posts. littlemissmartypants Aug 2014 #16

I've watched many good folks struggle with this president - TBF Aug 2014 #18

It's interesting that you gloss over the process by which LGBT issues made progress Bluenorthwest Aug 2014 #21

Oh please, Bluenorthwest! Even when the president finally did the right thing by the LGBT Liberal_Stalwart71 Aug 2014 #27

Thank you for demonstrating my point so exactingly. Bluenorthwest Aug 2014 #30

I didn't attack you Blue. I attacked how you think. Now, address what I wrote. Liberal_Stalwart71 Aug 2014 #33

No, you delivered a diatratribe against me, you have no idea how I think or who I love Bluenorthwest Aug 2014 #36

Obama was dragged, kicking and screaming, into acceptance of LGBTQ equality Maedhros Aug 2014 #79

Who fucking cares?!? He still did the right thing and he is STILL doing the right thing! Liberal_Stalwart71 Aug 2014 #93

Why on earth would you think I'm giving Clinton a pass on anything? He's the bastard that signed Maedhros Aug 2014 #104

I think if DU existed (and a more extensive internet) during President Clinton's term in office davidpdx Aug 2014 #119

It's not meant to be a "gloss over" - I was trying to keep my reply TBF Aug 2014 #29

The folks did not become more supportive without much effort on the part of many people Bluenorthwest Aug 2014 #37

Insightful post, bigtree. Thank you. democrank Aug 2014 #20

As a very strong and ardent supporter of the president, I can't argue with this OP. Liberal_Stalwart71 Aug 2014 #22

"many of the president's critics who do so out of pure derision, hatred, and for reasons other than Maedhros Aug 2014 #80

That's not the definition of straw man. Liberal_Stalwart71 Aug 2014 #94

Umm...you sure? Maedhros Aug 2014 #101

That OP was longer than 50 Shades of Gray Orrex Aug 2014 #24

And for some, there are no shades of gray here. progressoid Aug 2014 #31

Most DUers agree with you, especially your last paragraph. Don't let those who sabrina 1 Aug 2014 #35

I agree. I wish I could ignore them as well as you do, but they destroy honest, decent, liberal rhett o rick Aug 2014 #43

In many ways those who want no criticism provide an opportunity to sabrina 1 Aug 2014 #44

I disagree. Those that want no criticism don't add anything yet cause a huge distraction. rhett o rick Aug 2014 #46

I agree regarding your assessment of the goals. But since it is a reality that sabrina 1 Aug 2014 #47

But of course you are absolutely correct, but it requires self control. rhett o rick Aug 2014 #52

It definitely requires self control, I totally agree with you on hat. sabrina 1 Aug 2014 #113

This. Puglover Aug 2014 #60

heh nt grasswire Aug 2014 #111

LOL, yeah, you have always been a BIG supporter snooper2 Aug 2014 #38

Well said bigtree. We can't let those bent on stifling discussions that go against their rhett o rick Aug 2014 #45

Some of those 'folks' were women also who were raped and tortured. As Sy Hersch sabrina 1 Aug 2014 #50

The President is fully aware of the magnitude of the horror and we can only surmise. rhett o rick Aug 2014 #55

You are always able to see all sides of an issue or a politician, one of the few people Autumn Aug 2014 #49

Yes for some it's easier to disparage than dispute. nm rhett o rick Aug 2014 #82

Hey rhett. Hows everything? Autumn Aug 2014 #83

I feel bad for those that have backed themselves into apologizing for the torturers. rhett o rick Aug 2014 #99

I don't see much of a difference so far in terms of hosts doing all the main Autumn Aug 2014 #100

What? You mean no drama? Good. Hope it continues to run smoothly. nm rhett o rick Aug 2014 #103

I think having no group host input has really helped. Autumn Aug 2014 #106

'If I've lost bigtree, I've lost Middle America.' Newsjock Aug 2014 #53

I'm lost Sheepshank Aug 2014 #57

Torture is a war crime and crime against humanity, its supporters are criminals Corruption Inc Aug 2014 #56

Now, now. Don't be so black-and-white. The world is 50 Shades of Gray! Haha! WinkyDink Aug 2014 #66

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Aug 2014 #58

To me the argument is this: are torturers now above the law? grahamhgreen Aug 2014 #61

According to Obama, yes zipplewrath Aug 2014 #64

But...but.... Atty. Yoo said the law allowed it! He even stapled his memos to the Constitution! WinkyDink Aug 2014 #67

now, now don't be sanctimonious noiretextatique Aug 2014 #85

It is the responsibility of the people in a democracy to hold public servants accountable. K&R Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2014 #63

You measure a democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, ... L0oniX Aug 2014 #68

I was very surprised to see your posts on this BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #71

What I found comical about the attacks on you Vattel Aug 2014 #90

Good. Because defending the President, a twice elected Democrat, is a waste of time at DU. Major Hogwash Aug 2014 #92

It sounds like there may be some rightwing overtones here, MUST. BE. BANNED!!! LOL Corruption Inc Aug 2014 #95

JESUS H .... sunnystarr Aug 2014 #96

Rather than attacking others who hold different positions and opinions emsimon33 Aug 2014 #110

You don't need permission to be objective or jaysunb Aug 2014 #115

1500 words bigtree Aug 2014 #116

I was pretty clear. jaysunb Aug 2014 #118

thanks for the comments, jaysub bigtree Aug 2014 #120

Your headline doesn't match the content of your OP apples and oranges Aug 2014 #117

I dunno bigtree Aug 2014 #122

brilliant post. dionysus Aug 2014 #121

I want to thank everyone who responded to this for your engaging and thoughtful comments bigtree Aug 2014 #123

Torture should be prosecuted. Rex Aug 2014 #125