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In reply to the discussion: Congratulations, Hamas. [View all]

The Magistrate

(96,043 posts)
65. Israel Has Lost The Political Dimension Of This Conflict, Sir
Tue Aug 5, 2014, 11:57 AM
Aug 2014

Is is not wise to dismiss as 'an internet PR war' the expression of people's feelings and reactions to these events.

Guerrilla war is more a political struggle than a military struggle, and generally is won on the political rather than the military side, or at the very least, the conditions in which a military victory can be achieved are created by victory on the political side. Israel is without question losing the political side of this struggle, not only around the world, but in the United Stats as well. Israel's leadership imperils the state of Israel if it ignores this, and does not find policies and actions which will address it.

As you observe, Israel has only one friend, the United States, and there are dangers to being dependent on a single patron, however powerful. The unquestioning support a government of the United States gives to Israel is, at bottom, dependent on genuine popular feeling among the people of this country that Israel ought to be supported, which is in turn dependent on genuine popular feeling that Israel deserves to be supported. The recent exercise of force in Gaza has frayed further the popular feeling, even in the United States, that Israel deserves to be supported. You will be aware that I have been for many years here a leading supporter of Israel, and by my lights continue to be a supporter of Israel, but I cannot support or defend as proper action the recent Israeli use of force in Gaza. I think that, without valuing myself overmuch, this hints at a real problem, because I cannot but believe a number of people who share my general sentiments and attitudes exist, and that they must in part at least similarly share my view of these recent actions of Israel.

People often have a faulty view of erosional processes; they have the idea that small changes follow small changes and still more small changes, and so there is never a point where you can see the thing altering before you, but only after ages does it become apparent there has been a change. But in fact, most erosional processes are punctuated by large and sudden alterations; water and ice make a crack in rock, and widen it and widen it and widen it until, one day, gravity takes over, and in an instant great slabs of rock peel off a cliff-face and tumble into the canyon below.

Support for Israel in the United States is starting to take on the lineaments of opposition to allowing homosexuals to marry one another on the same terms as heterosexuals. It is becoming increasingly concentrated among older people, particularly older white people, and among people devoted to fundamentalist Christian sects. As recently as ten years ago, opposition to 'gay marriage' was considered a sure winner by rightist political operatives, and correctly so, but today it is considered a losing proposition, and support for 'marriage equality' is seen to be the main-stream view among the people of the country regardless of the fact that older people and fundamentalist Christians continue to oppose it by large margins. The erosional process that began with mimeograph pamphlets of the Mattachine Society and the Daughters of Bilitis sixty years ago crippled on down the decades, grain of sand by tiny pebble at a time, until in the last few years, a great slab calved off the cliff-face and the landscape changed.

It is this kind of shift in popular opinion here in the United States the leadership of Israel is courting by its present attitude. Their recent actions in Gaza have helped to move this change along. They cannot afford much more of this.

Recommendations

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Congratulations, Hamas. [View all] RandySF Aug 2014 OP
I disagree with your assessment. lovemydog Aug 2014 #1
Pretty Much, Sir The Magistrate Aug 2014 #2
You are spot on, sir Lithos Aug 2014 #8
That Is What They Need To Do, Sir, But I Fear They Will Not The Magistrate Aug 2014 #10
That is a painful truth Lithos Aug 2014 #14
Yes. And on both sides, innocent people suffer because of it. JDPriestly Aug 2014 #19
I wish I could rec a response, sir. eom MohRokTah Aug 2014 #9
with all due respect exactly what has Israel 'lost' here, what has Hamas 'won'? azurnoir Aug 2014 #17
Israel Has Lost The Political Dimension Of This Conflict, Sir The Magistrate Aug 2014 #65
again with all due respect Sir azurnoir Aug 2014 #96
I Expect Where We Have Points Of Agreement, Sir, Would Be This The Magistrate Aug 2014 #98
Thank you Sir I'm honored truly I am but one small thing azurnoir Aug 2014 #99
+1. bemildred Aug 2014 #61
Likud v. HAmas will only move into a cold war stage, waiting for the next hot war between the ... MohRokTah Aug 2014 #3
Astute observation. JDPriestly Aug 2014 #20
Too bad Netanyahu has never been smart enough to see it villager Aug 2014 #4
so, in your estimation, Israel played into Hamas' hands bigtree Aug 2014 #5
Hamas and Likud need each other just as much as they hate each other. RandySF Aug 2014 #6
A relevant personal story from my past WestCoastLib Aug 2014 #7
The Israelis went into Gaza in order to destroy the tunnels. JDPriestly Aug 2014 #21
Cognitive Dissonance whatchamacallit Aug 2014 #11
Did you miss that Israel started this war? shaayecanaan Aug 2014 #12
++++++ swilton Aug 2014 #13
Thank you. That is why I disagree with the assessment. lovemydog Aug 2014 #15
Weren't there several jihadi groups which were variously Loudly Aug 2014 #18
Did I misplace my boiled egg? My puppy ate a sprocket shaayecanaan Aug 2014 #23
That's about as cogent as a barrage of Qassams. n/t Loudly Aug 2014 #54
List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel, 2014 oberliner Aug 2014 #40
None of which were fired by Hamas shaayecanaan Aug 2014 #46
Hamas was the governing authority in Gaza over that time oberliner Aug 2014 #47
Israel is the governing authority in Hebron shaayecanaan Aug 2014 #49
is Obama responsible for the rash of school shootings during his tenure? frylock Aug 2014 #72
The story behind the story that some cannot accept KoKo Aug 2014 #50
this Marrah_G Aug 2014 #52
It used to be easier to defend Israel's oppression of the Palestinians. Now that the world sabrina 1 Aug 2014 #56
Recent history being exposed....how dare you bring up this stuff. Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #66
^^$$$$$$THIS$$$$$$^^ Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #67
THANK YOU redqueen Aug 2014 #69
Your July 25 entry may also be incorrect oberliner Aug 2014 #80
Then you may need to provide evidence to that effect shaayecanaan Aug 2014 #85
Hamas did not win. US policy, as far as I can tell, has not changed one iota. lovemydog Aug 2014 #16
Behind high-minded motivations... BlueCheese Aug 2014 #22
This represents a very fundamental misunderstanding of the situation, I am afraid. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2014 #24
Thank you for this post. lovemydog Aug 2014 #37
For your complete objectively from day one of this mess malaise Aug 2014 #43
Christopher Hedges says the Israeli government routinely lies BainsBane Aug 2014 #25
Me, too... KansDem Aug 2014 #30
So at least two schools leftynyc Aug 2014 #48
Israel does lie. And the innocent victims are Palestinian civilians and children. DanTex Aug 2014 #51
Do you have a source you can point me to for that? BainsBane Aug 2014 #59
Christopher Hedges is correct. They are very blatant about it too. nt bemildred Aug 2014 #62
Well then, i guess in order to not look like murdering thugs... bravenak Aug 2014 #26
First if Netnayahu is a hothead, he shouldn't be president underthematrix Aug 2014 #27
What was Hamas supposed to do? Submariner Aug 2014 #28
Israel has no settlements in Gaza onenote Aug 2014 #34
Israel has settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem Spider Jerusalem Aug 2014 #35
And Hamas isn't the governing authority in those areas onenote Aug 2014 #36
It's still occupied Palestinian territory. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2014 #38
Gaza is the land devastated by by that baby butcher, Bibi, rateyes Aug 2014 #29
Too early for full results Rhinodawg Aug 2014 #31
Ah, but who goaded the conflict intaglio Aug 2014 #32
This message was self-deleted by its author Renew Deal Aug 2014 #33
Uncomfortably similar to the American response to 9/11. GliderGuider Aug 2014 #41
+1. nt bemildred Aug 2014 #63
Could you show us on a map where the non-populated areas are? n/t eridani Aug 2014 #39
Sure...(i assume u mean in Gaza) EX500rider Aug 2014 #79
Gaza is one of the most densely populated places on earth eridani Aug 2014 #83
Still has lots of empty room. EX500rider Aug 2014 #84
I see, they should visibly travel in open areas and get bombed. Even Hamas isn't that stupid eridani Aug 2014 #86
Much better to hide amoung women & children? not.. EX500rider Aug 2014 #90
They LIVE among women and children eridani Aug 2014 #95
What proportion of those open spaces are occupied by the IDF, part of the new stranger81 Aug 2014 #87
Neither is the answer 100% EX500rider Aug 2014 #88
So what is the answer? [n/t] stranger81 Aug 2014 #91
I am afraid no good answers....although all side making peace would be nice.. EX500rider Aug 2014 #92
I ask this question because I've been trying to find the answer myself for some time, stranger81 Aug 2014 #93
What in inversion of reality malaise Aug 2014 #42
They were able to gain a lot of support, too. LexVegas Aug 2014 #44
I would venture to say that the innocent Palestinian people have gained support justiceischeap Aug 2014 #64
And plenty here will cheer this leftynyc Aug 2014 #45
Netanyahu did exactly what he wanted to do CJCRANE Aug 2014 #53
Sun-Tzu laid out the strategy, many years ago: riqster Aug 2014 #55
Hamas had not fired rockets for 19 months. And it was 3 teens that Hamas DIDN'T kill that gave magical thyme Aug 2014 #57
Over a hundred rockets were fired from Gaza from January to June hack89 Aug 2014 #58
Yet none were fired by Hamas Bodhi BloodWave Aug 2014 #68
Hamas is legally responsible for every attack from Gaza hack89 Aug 2014 #71
Placing responsibilty for all acts happening within gaza Bodhi BloodWave Aug 2014 #73
So what is the point of negotiating peace with Hamas if they can't enforce it? hack89 Aug 2014 #74
somewhat off the mark Bodhi BloodWave Aug 2014 #78
The Palestinians shouldn't fight back, ever, just lay there and take it. The Straight Story Aug 2014 #60
you make me hit you, honey frylock Aug 2014 #70
That is exactly how these people sound to me Marrah_G Aug 2014 #82
Kick & recommended. William769 Aug 2014 #75
OMG, how stupid. closeupready Aug 2014 #76
How I weep for Israel's leaders Distant Quasar Aug 2014 #77
Just finished watching Blitzer's interview of Moshe Feiglin, Deputy Speaker in the Knesset aint_no_life_nowhere Aug 2014 #81
So was Wolf even the least bit critical of this guy? [n/t] stranger81 Aug 2014 #89
He kept asking the guy to own up to his previous statements about shipping Gazans off to the Sinai aint_no_life_nowhere Aug 2014 #94
Not to many places in Gaza that's not populated! B Calm Aug 2014 #97
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