General Discussion

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)

27. Oh, that's right

Tue Aug 5, 2014, 07:34 PM

Aug 2014

The minority party in government is what made him stand up and call torturers patriots! I'm so glad we have a Democratic President.

Exactly how does the DOJ have to negotiate with House Republicans in prosecuting war crimes?

How about how the administration actively worked to prevent international courts from prosecuting according to the Geneva Convention and threatened Spain for seeking indictments? How about how the administration is now working with the current as well as former Bush admin CIA to redact the report? Did the Republicans make him do it?

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So, *you* want a king. Well, *I* don't. [View all] MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 OP

"We can't put an American President in Jail"-that's what I was told at the time about Nixon, anyway. PoliticAverse Aug 2014 #1

I remember that argument, and the concept of the unindicted co-conspirator. calimary Aug 2014 #175

Well you can... GTurck Aug 2014 #220

If the Republicans really were interested in impeachment... CubicleGuy Aug 2014 #229

What about everyone who agreed to the torture. upaloopa Aug 2014 #2

Obama said that "just following orders" WAS good enough for him. FiveGoodMen Aug 2014 #19

For those of us old enough to have been taught the lessons of the truedelphi Aug 2014 #78

This is the best post ever. Fantastic Anarchist Aug 2014 #84

I gladly stipulate I owe much of the weight & wisdom of the remark to the book truedelphi Aug 2014 #223

I'm not sure what I'm bothered by more ... Fantastic Anarchist Aug 2014 #247

^^^^^^^^ ReRe Aug 2014 #202

^^ This. n/t winter is coming Aug 2014 #204

I Agree, absolutely nikto Aug 2014 #234

The problem isn't about prosecuting the problem is getting a conviction and cstanleytech Aug 2014 #77

I disagree salib Aug 2014 #133

Problem is these days most prosecutors wont touch a case cstanleytech Aug 2014 #140

"What's best for the 'country'"... ReRe Aug 2014 #206

No, its just the cost of living in the real world rather than the pretend one cstanleytech Aug 2014 #211

So, reality out the door, huh? ReRe Aug 2014 #214

"Right is right and wrong is wrong. There IS NO wiggle room between the two." Are you pro choice? cstanleytech Aug 2014 #233

You're GD right I am. ReRe Aug 2014 #238

As am I however on the flip side abortion kills a fetus but there are legit reasons cstanleytech Aug 2014 #239

Alright now... ReRe Aug 2014 #240

No where did I say that the president was or should normalize torture rather I am pointing out cstanleytech Aug 2014 #243

Ahhh.. ReRe Aug 2014 #245

They should still be tried. Let the jury decide. That is what the JDPriestly Aug 2014 #180

Not since Charles I lost his head. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2014 #3

Technically true, but... MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #4

"equality under the law is a hallmark of the American system of government" JayhawkSD Aug 2014 #160

Not even really true salib Aug 2014 #135

Seems to me that you should have been screaming about this 6 or 7 years ago. notadmblnd Aug 2014 #5

Many of us were FiveGoodMen Aug 2014 #20

I know, many of us were notadmblnd Aug 2014 #24

Post #5 kind of sounds like a jab at Manny, though FiveGoodMen Aug 2014 #26

Sorry, My comments seem to be hurting men tonight. notadmblnd Aug 2014 #36

No problem. FiveGoodMen Aug 2014 #76

Huh? Fantastic Anarchist Aug 2014 #95

IKR Capt. Obvious Aug 2014 #190

Yes we were BuelahWitch Aug 2014 #28

"We were told to shut up..." Sheepshank Aug 2014 #92

So this never happened? MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #96

Interesting that OP attracted 13 responses BainsBane Aug 2014 #98

Since you claim to have been a DU reader back then, MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #106

That is not what I claimed BainsBane Aug 2014 #121

"Since I am to believe that you are suddenly concerned about Bush" MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #132

That doesn't constitute support for Bush BainsBane Aug 2014 #136

Your response is orthogonal to my OP. MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #138

There is a thing about discussion BainsBane Aug 2014 #149

One of us is nuts. MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #151

Speaking of above the law BainsBane Aug 2014 #155

If Obama fails to prosecute because he fears a coup, we have JDPriestly Aug 2014 #183

We have had the coup. BobbyBoring Aug 2014 #203

^^^^^^ ReRe Aug 2014 #213

As I recall there was quite a bit of discussion about the torture JDPriestly Aug 2014 #182

The hell you say! DeSwiss Aug 2014 #153

This message was self-deleted by its author BuelahWitch Aug 2014 #165

You can bet Manny was, and maybe if Obama didn't come out and SomethingFishy Aug 2014 #32

I've felt like I've been on the verge of puking ever since I first heard the horrid statement last kath Aug 2014 #81

That assumes concerns extend beyond BainsBane Aug 2014 #57

We did. JDPriestly Aug 2014 #181

Yes you do want a 'king'. As do your buddies on DU. You want an executive KittyWampus Aug 2014 #6

True...the OP wanted Obama to ignore the debt ceiling Cali_Democrat Aug 2014 #8

Ah, your obfuscation for the day MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #15

I' m somewhat puzzled as to how dead bodies piling up in Gaza, truedelphi Aug 2014 #82

You tattle with the fake tattle you have MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #85

not a magic wand, just negotiating skills frylock Aug 2014 #12

The OP is about prosecuting torturers. Cali_Democrat Aug 2014 #18

Oh, that's right BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #27

You missed my point. Cali_Democrat Aug 2014 #31

I reread your post and if that was your meaning, I did misinterpret it BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #33

I like your thinking on this, Cali Democrat. n/t truedelphi Aug 2014 #232

Negotiations? What negotiations? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2014 #37

There is no negotiating. Cali_Democrat Aug 2014 #63

^^^^^^^^ ReRe Aug 2014 #215

a start would have been not caving noiretextatique Aug 2014 #54

There is no negotiating when it comes to this Cali_Democrat Aug 2014 #60

What negotiations? I Don't Recall Congress voting to prosecute Timothy McVeigh. TheKentuckian Aug 2014 #118

There are no negotiations. Cali_Democrat Aug 2014 #124

I don't get that either. Prosecute or be complicit, there is nothing to barter. TheKentuckian Aug 2014 #137

The US is party to the Geneva Conventions Cali_Democrat Aug 2014 #139

It is always illegal to be willfully complicit in a felony. TheKentuckian Aug 2014 #142

If a potential presidential candidate said... Cali_Democrat Aug 2014 #147

I would in a heart beat. BobbyBoring Aug 2014 #201

I think I'm gonna create a poll on this. I wanna see what DU thinks. Cali_Democrat Aug 2014 #152

The President did what he had to do to stop a complete disaster from happening. 7962 Aug 2014 #146

just negotiating skills Autumn Aug 2014 #38

"I welcome their hatred" - FDR MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #16

ahhh so you DO want a little bit of a King Sheepshank Aug 2014 #94

Are you saying that FDR was a king? Dictator? nt MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #97

Funny you should assume FDR in my response Sheepshank Aug 2014 #99

FDR was in the post you responded to MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #101

So where does my response make even a little bit of sense? Sheepshank Aug 2014 #104

It makes sense nowhere, as far as I can figger. nt MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #108

ya...i added to it, Sheepshank Aug 2014 #112

Surely, you can point to some specific links that demonstrate this MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #114

Just from this thread: Sheepshank Aug 2014 #188

So, short story: you have no links. MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #194

Caught with your pants down..you got you direct quotes from this thread bwah haaa haaa Sheepshank Aug 2014 #205

Manny had the patience to deal with you. I prefer truedelphi Aug 2014 #241

Apparently I'm not on "ignore" yet Sheepshank Aug 2014 #246

Please! Link to some of my posts that illustrate your claim. MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #115

your nobility is overshadowed by your own past rhetoric...look above for example Sheepshank Aug 2014 #189

Yes, with 70+ in the senate and 300+ in the House JaneyVee Aug 2014 #143

True, but all was not easy MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #144

Excusime' ReRe Aug 2014 #217

Actually...that would be me, dear Zorra Aug 2014 #48

bull...Obama's torture comments were ridiculous noiretextatique Aug 2014 #50

Ironic isn't it? BainsBane Aug 2014 #62

That's right, if we oppose torture, it means we want a king.... beerandjesus Aug 2014 #193

We must maintain the peaceful transition of power. Laelth Aug 2014 #7

How did you get from legal prosecutions to martial law? winter is coming Aug 2014 #9

If Bush knew he would be prosecuted (and possibly executed) ... Laelth Aug 2014 #13

I'd like to think that Obama had some sort of figurative gun to his head. n/t winter is coming Aug 2014 #30

As strange as it seems BainsBane Aug 2014 #71

While I usually agree with you, I have to differ here.. SomethingFishy Aug 2014 #34

The President did not handle himself well in that interview. Laelth Aug 2014 #39

That sounds like peaceful transition at the point of a gun. zeemike Aug 2014 #58

Yesy Indeedy Caretha Aug 2014 #74

That is a possibility/scenario people here couldn't fathom ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #141

Please, honestly BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #156

What Countries have sought to bring Bush/Cheney to the Hague? ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #212

There must be some things we as humans can say is unequivocally wrong BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #221

I agree ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #225

Thanks for the discussion BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #226

As do I ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #227

That is the bullshittiest argument I've ever heard. Fantastic Anarchist Aug 2014 #150

The great experiment has failed rickyhall Aug 2014 #10

Now what do you want to prosecute Obama for today? BainsBane Aug 2014 #11

That would be Bush but you know that neverforget Aug 2014 #14

No, I don't know that BainsBane Aug 2014 #17

Oh my neverforget Aug 2014 #23

Was that OP really so difficult to understand? MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #22

Might you have a reading problem? MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #21

Tell me what you wanted me to understand then BainsBane Aug 2014 #25

Read. My. Fucking. Post. MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #35

Links to substantiate the straw man you erect in your OP? BainsBane Aug 2014 #43

Which straw man is that? MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #46

You could read my last post to you BainsBane Aug 2014 #49

So you were on DU when Bush was President? MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #53

I have asked for links from you BainsBane Aug 2014 #55

THEY ARE RIGHT IN THIS THREAD MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #59

There are no links in the OP BainsBane Aug 2014 #61

THERE ARE POSTS THAT SAY THIS RIGHT IN THIS THREAD MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #66

So I must read through the whole thread BainsBane Aug 2014 #70

No there are not BainsBane Aug 2014 #73

But you gotta love the calories burned in the (typical) pretense of innocence Number23 Aug 2014 #105

I do believe that is the chief issue BainsBane Aug 2014 #130

So the problem is that you can read things that I didn't write. MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #131

You refuse to provide any evidence BainsBane Aug 2014 #134

Well, that's just dreadful. sibelian Aug 2014 #172

As opposed to this? BainsBane Aug 2014 #173

Oh! sibelian Aug 2014 #199

I see, no greater challenge to the constituion BainsBane Aug 2014 #45

The language is clear. MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #47

And zero evidence to substantiate it BainsBane Aug 2014 #52

"And zero evidence to substantiate it" zeemike Aug 2014 #64

"Hyperbole" I backed up with copious evidence BainsBane Aug 2014 #75

Yeah, about that thread you read three times... winter is coming Aug 2014 #67

Right, you know what I actually said BainsBane Aug 2014 #83

WOW, someone alerted this post. They lost 1-6!! Results below....... Logical Aug 2014 #113

At this point, DU probably has a dedicated server to handle the alerts on me MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #116

Sure. Good luck! nt Logical Aug 2014 #117

I think you need to put some people on ignore bahrbearian Aug 2014 #218

Damn it Capt. Obvious Aug 2014 #192

I think the word you're searching for is "sanctimonious" BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #29

And on another thread I have DU'ers who say the law can be ignored n2doc Aug 2014 #40

Which is worse? MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #42

A wolf is better. zeemike Aug 2014 #65

Just curious- are you saying... TDale313 Aug 2014 #128

That was unclear. zeemike Aug 2014 #148

Is the wolf Bush? BainsBane Aug 2014 #174

Dare I ask BainsBane Aug 2014 #80

The Geneva Convention BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #158

Didn't Bush screw around with that? BainsBane Aug 2014 #159

Yes, but it does not matter in international court BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #161

The senate refused to ratify the International Criminal Court BainsBane Aug 2014 #162

But other countries could and did try to indict them BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #164

Yes, there is a concept under human rights law BainsBane Aug 2014 #166

That is interesting information BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #169

Has Bush left the U.S. since Obama took office? I seem to recall at least one time winter is coming Aug 2014 #167

Yes, he has traveled but does keep canceling trips if there is threat of arrest BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #168

+1 L0oniX Aug 2014 #109

*You* *Don't* *Know* *What* *I* *Want* XRubicon Aug 2014 #41

Sadly the "There's nothing he can do!!!111" crowd can't even make that argument JoeyT Aug 2014 #44

+1! SammyWinstonJack Aug 2014 #72

Well, there's the "he can't tell the DOJ what to do!" argument MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #88

Of course they didn't take a moment to apologise, dear Manny. sibelian Aug 2014 #170

K & R !!! WillyT Aug 2014 #51

I'm sure it will be prosecuted Warpy Aug 2014 #56

^^This!^^ BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #157

Exactly. Some of them get away with it by dying in bed Warpy Aug 2014 #176

Yes, I think Cheney and maybe Rumsfeld might die first. Bush will become a severe alcoholic BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #177

Oh, it will be Warpy Aug 2014 #178

When has a President been held responsible before? hootinholler Aug 2014 #68

Nixon and Andrew Johnson BainsBane Aug 2014 #79

yeah and their heaven05 Aug 2014 #200

Well put, sir. n/t 99Forever Aug 2014 #69

Don't you know the ultimate punishment for them is to lose their job in power? Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #86

The purpose of such prosecutions is not to punish them per se BainsBane Aug 2014 #87

America is full of myths.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #91

Indeed. BainsBane Aug 2014 #93

That's because many haven't traveled. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #100

Well put. Sadly true. n/t TDale313 Aug 2014 #107

Funny type of hypocrisy Sheepshank Aug 2014 #89

I know BainsBane Aug 2014 #90

Well it WOULD be hypocritical if Manny was advocating the prosecution of Obama for war crimes sibelian Aug 2014 #196

FAIL...you fail fail fail fail fail in your assement. Sheepshank Aug 2014 #207

Man, Manny, they sure are after you RobertEarl Aug 2014 #102

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Aug 2014 #103

K & R L0oniX Aug 2014 #110

I agree with you, but there are two big obstacles to successful prosecution. Vattel Aug 2014 #111

Three big obstacles actually. cstanleytech Aug 2014 #120

True, that is another big obstacle. Vattel Aug 2014 #125

People have been put to death for the same offenses, I grant zero wiggle room. TheKentuckian Aug 2014 #123

Yes, people have been punished for torture, but it is doubtful that ordinary criminal laws against Vattel Aug 2014 #127

Yep...this. nt msanthrope Aug 2014 #198

if we need "clarification" that the following list is illegal questionseverything Aug 2014 #237

Those practices are clearly criminal. We don't need new legislation to Vattel Aug 2014 #242

No, he's not a king. He's a CEO of a multinational. nt valerief Aug 2014 #119

^^ Thread win. n/t winter is coming Aug 2014 #122

Well said... TheProgressive Aug 2014 #126

It's falling apart. moondust Aug 2014 #129

Totes. sibelian Aug 2014 #171

TORTURE. It <<is>> a black or white issue. You're either FOR it, or AGAINST it. And silence=consent. blkmusclmachine Aug 2014 #145

AGAINST BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #163

K&R DeSwiss Aug 2014 #154

K&R. JDPriestly Aug 2014 #179

Your understanding of civics is woefully lacking, as usual. joshcryer Aug 2014 #184

So Bush can't be charged for his role in torture. MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #185

Yes he can and should be. joshcryer Aug 2014 #186

we should have heaven05 Aug 2014 #187

Then why humbled_opinion Aug 2014 #191

if you think so heaven05 Aug 2014 #197

LOL Obfuscation... humbled_opinion Aug 2014 #244

Who are the fucking mouth-breathing assholes R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2014 #195

K & R GoneFishin Aug 2014 #208

Bushies "... owed Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton thank-you notes." Pholus Aug 2014 #209

But royalty is soooo dreamy!!! Think of the pomp and circumstance, Zorra Aug 2014 #210

Amen, Manny. K&R closeupready Aug 2014 #216

My ideals are never sullied by practical considerations. cheapdate Aug 2014 #219

In the end, we'll all come to love Big Brother. [n/t] Maedhros Aug 2014 #222

K&R ReRe Aug 2014 #224

Highly recommend. n/t Jefferson23 Aug 2014 #228

Here's a little history on the subject... bluesbassman Aug 2014 #230

Good post cwydro Aug 2014 #231

Conservatives will be no help nikto Aug 2014 #235

John Yoo, Dep Ass't AG, provided Bush, CIA & DoD legal cover, 4 "Enhanced Interrogation": 8/01/2002 Bill USA Aug 2014 #236