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MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)

42. Which is worse?

Reply to n2doc (Reply #40)

Tue Aug 5, 2014, 07:57 PM

Aug 2014

A wolf, or a wolf in sheep's clothing?

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So, *you* want a king. Well, *I* don't. [View all] MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 OP

"We can't put an American President in Jail"-that's what I was told at the time about Nixon, anyway. PoliticAverse Aug 2014 #1

I remember that argument, and the concept of the unindicted co-conspirator. calimary Aug 2014 #175

Well you can... GTurck Aug 2014 #220

If the Republicans really were interested in impeachment... CubicleGuy Aug 2014 #229

What about everyone who agreed to the torture. upaloopa Aug 2014 #2

Obama said that "just following orders" WAS good enough for him. FiveGoodMen Aug 2014 #19

For those of us old enough to have been taught the lessons of the truedelphi Aug 2014 #78

This is the best post ever. Fantastic Anarchist Aug 2014 #84

I gladly stipulate I owe much of the weight & wisdom of the remark to the book truedelphi Aug 2014 #223

I'm not sure what I'm bothered by more ... Fantastic Anarchist Aug 2014 #247

^^^^^^^^ ReRe Aug 2014 #202

^^ This. n/t winter is coming Aug 2014 #204

I Agree, absolutely nikto Aug 2014 #234

The problem isn't about prosecuting the problem is getting a conviction and cstanleytech Aug 2014 #77

I disagree salib Aug 2014 #133

Problem is these days most prosecutors wont touch a case cstanleytech Aug 2014 #140

"What's best for the 'country'"... ReRe Aug 2014 #206

No, its just the cost of living in the real world rather than the pretend one cstanleytech Aug 2014 #211

So, reality out the door, huh? ReRe Aug 2014 #214

"Right is right and wrong is wrong. There IS NO wiggle room between the two." Are you pro choice? cstanleytech Aug 2014 #233

You're GD right I am. ReRe Aug 2014 #238

As am I however on the flip side abortion kills a fetus but there are legit reasons cstanleytech Aug 2014 #239

Alright now... ReRe Aug 2014 #240

No where did I say that the president was or should normalize torture rather I am pointing out cstanleytech Aug 2014 #243

Ahhh.. ReRe Aug 2014 #245

They should still be tried. Let the jury decide. That is what the JDPriestly Aug 2014 #180

Not since Charles I lost his head. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2014 #3

Technically true, but... MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #4

"equality under the law is a hallmark of the American system of government" JayhawkSD Aug 2014 #160

Not even really true salib Aug 2014 #135

Seems to me that you should have been screaming about this 6 or 7 years ago. notadmblnd Aug 2014 #5

Many of us were FiveGoodMen Aug 2014 #20

I know, many of us were notadmblnd Aug 2014 #24

Post #5 kind of sounds like a jab at Manny, though FiveGoodMen Aug 2014 #26

Sorry, My comments seem to be hurting men tonight. notadmblnd Aug 2014 #36

No problem. FiveGoodMen Aug 2014 #76

Huh? Fantastic Anarchist Aug 2014 #95

IKR Capt. Obvious Aug 2014 #190

Yes we were BuelahWitch Aug 2014 #28

"We were told to shut up..." Sheepshank Aug 2014 #92

So this never happened? MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #96

Interesting that OP attracted 13 responses BainsBane Aug 2014 #98

Since you claim to have been a DU reader back then, MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #106

That is not what I claimed BainsBane Aug 2014 #121

"Since I am to believe that you are suddenly concerned about Bush" MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #132

That doesn't constitute support for Bush BainsBane Aug 2014 #136

Your response is orthogonal to my OP. MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #138

There is a thing about discussion BainsBane Aug 2014 #149

One of us is nuts. MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #151

Speaking of above the law BainsBane Aug 2014 #155

If Obama fails to prosecute because he fears a coup, we have JDPriestly Aug 2014 #183

We have had the coup. BobbyBoring Aug 2014 #203

^^^^^^ ReRe Aug 2014 #213

As I recall there was quite a bit of discussion about the torture JDPriestly Aug 2014 #182

The hell you say! DeSwiss Aug 2014 #153

This message was self-deleted by its author BuelahWitch Aug 2014 #165

You can bet Manny was, and maybe if Obama didn't come out and SomethingFishy Aug 2014 #32

I've felt like I've been on the verge of puking ever since I first heard the horrid statement last kath Aug 2014 #81

That assumes concerns extend beyond BainsBane Aug 2014 #57

We did. JDPriestly Aug 2014 #181

Yes you do want a 'king'. As do your buddies on DU. You want an executive KittyWampus Aug 2014 #6

True...the OP wanted Obama to ignore the debt ceiling Cali_Democrat Aug 2014 #8

Ah, your obfuscation for the day MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #15

I' m somewhat puzzled as to how dead bodies piling up in Gaza, truedelphi Aug 2014 #82

You tattle with the fake tattle you have MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #85

not a magic wand, just negotiating skills frylock Aug 2014 #12

The OP is about prosecuting torturers. Cali_Democrat Aug 2014 #18

Oh, that's right BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #27

You missed my point. Cali_Democrat Aug 2014 #31

I reread your post and if that was your meaning, I did misinterpret it BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #33

I like your thinking on this, Cali Democrat. n/t truedelphi Aug 2014 #232

Negotiations? What negotiations? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2014 #37

There is no negotiating. Cali_Democrat Aug 2014 #63

^^^^^^^^ ReRe Aug 2014 #215

a start would have been not caving noiretextatique Aug 2014 #54

There is no negotiating when it comes to this Cali_Democrat Aug 2014 #60

What negotiations? I Don't Recall Congress voting to prosecute Timothy McVeigh. TheKentuckian Aug 2014 #118

There are no negotiations. Cali_Democrat Aug 2014 #124

I don't get that either. Prosecute or be complicit, there is nothing to barter. TheKentuckian Aug 2014 #137

The US is party to the Geneva Conventions Cali_Democrat Aug 2014 #139

It is always illegal to be willfully complicit in a felony. TheKentuckian Aug 2014 #142

If a potential presidential candidate said... Cali_Democrat Aug 2014 #147

I would in a heart beat. BobbyBoring Aug 2014 #201

I think I'm gonna create a poll on this. I wanna see what DU thinks. Cali_Democrat Aug 2014 #152

The President did what he had to do to stop a complete disaster from happening. 7962 Aug 2014 #146

just negotiating skills Autumn Aug 2014 #38

"I welcome their hatred" - FDR MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #16

ahhh so you DO want a little bit of a King Sheepshank Aug 2014 #94

Are you saying that FDR was a king? Dictator? nt MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #97

Funny you should assume FDR in my response Sheepshank Aug 2014 #99

FDR was in the post you responded to MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #101

So where does my response make even a little bit of sense? Sheepshank Aug 2014 #104

It makes sense nowhere, as far as I can figger. nt MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #108

ya...i added to it, Sheepshank Aug 2014 #112

Surely, you can point to some specific links that demonstrate this MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #114

Just from this thread: Sheepshank Aug 2014 #188

So, short story: you have no links. MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #194

Caught with your pants down..you got you direct quotes from this thread bwah haaa haaa Sheepshank Aug 2014 #205

Manny had the patience to deal with you. I prefer truedelphi Aug 2014 #241

Apparently I'm not on "ignore" yet Sheepshank Aug 2014 #246

Please! Link to some of my posts that illustrate your claim. MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #115

your nobility is overshadowed by your own past rhetoric...look above for example Sheepshank Aug 2014 #189

Yes, with 70+ in the senate and 300+ in the House JaneyVee Aug 2014 #143

True, but all was not easy MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #144

Excusime' ReRe Aug 2014 #217

Actually...that would be me, dear Zorra Aug 2014 #48

bull...Obama's torture comments were ridiculous noiretextatique Aug 2014 #50

Ironic isn't it? BainsBane Aug 2014 #62

That's right, if we oppose torture, it means we want a king.... beerandjesus Aug 2014 #193

We must maintain the peaceful transition of power. Laelth Aug 2014 #7

How did you get from legal prosecutions to martial law? winter is coming Aug 2014 #9

If Bush knew he would be prosecuted (and possibly executed) ... Laelth Aug 2014 #13

I'd like to think that Obama had some sort of figurative gun to his head. n/t winter is coming Aug 2014 #30

As strange as it seems BainsBane Aug 2014 #71

While I usually agree with you, I have to differ here.. SomethingFishy Aug 2014 #34

The President did not handle himself well in that interview. Laelth Aug 2014 #39

That sounds like peaceful transition at the point of a gun. zeemike Aug 2014 #58

Yesy Indeedy Caretha Aug 2014 #74

That is a possibility/scenario people here couldn't fathom ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #141

Please, honestly BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #156

What Countries have sought to bring Bush/Cheney to the Hague? ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #212

There must be some things we as humans can say is unequivocally wrong BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #221

I agree ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #225

Thanks for the discussion BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #226

As do I ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #227

That is the bullshittiest argument I've ever heard. Fantastic Anarchist Aug 2014 #150

The great experiment has failed rickyhall Aug 2014 #10

Now what do you want to prosecute Obama for today? BainsBane Aug 2014 #11

That would be Bush but you know that neverforget Aug 2014 #14

No, I don't know that BainsBane Aug 2014 #17

Oh my neverforget Aug 2014 #23

Was that OP really so difficult to understand? MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #22

Might you have a reading problem? MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #21

Tell me what you wanted me to understand then BainsBane Aug 2014 #25

Read. My. Fucking. Post. MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #35

Links to substantiate the straw man you erect in your OP? BainsBane Aug 2014 #43

Which straw man is that? MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #46

You could read my last post to you BainsBane Aug 2014 #49

So you were on DU when Bush was President? MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #53

I have asked for links from you BainsBane Aug 2014 #55

THEY ARE RIGHT IN THIS THREAD MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #59

There are no links in the OP BainsBane Aug 2014 #61

THERE ARE POSTS THAT SAY THIS RIGHT IN THIS THREAD MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #66

So I must read through the whole thread BainsBane Aug 2014 #70

No there are not BainsBane Aug 2014 #73

But you gotta love the calories burned in the (typical) pretense of innocence Number23 Aug 2014 #105

I do believe that is the chief issue BainsBane Aug 2014 #130

So the problem is that you can read things that I didn't write. MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #131

You refuse to provide any evidence BainsBane Aug 2014 #134

Well, that's just dreadful. sibelian Aug 2014 #172

As opposed to this? BainsBane Aug 2014 #173

Oh! sibelian Aug 2014 #199

I see, no greater challenge to the constituion BainsBane Aug 2014 #45

The language is clear. MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #47

And zero evidence to substantiate it BainsBane Aug 2014 #52

"And zero evidence to substantiate it" zeemike Aug 2014 #64

"Hyperbole" I backed up with copious evidence BainsBane Aug 2014 #75

Yeah, about that thread you read three times... winter is coming Aug 2014 #67

Right, you know what I actually said BainsBane Aug 2014 #83

WOW, someone alerted this post. They lost 1-6!! Results below....... Logical Aug 2014 #113

At this point, DU probably has a dedicated server to handle the alerts on me MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #116

Sure. Good luck! nt Logical Aug 2014 #117

I think you need to put some people on ignore bahrbearian Aug 2014 #218

Damn it Capt. Obvious Aug 2014 #192

I think the word you're searching for is "sanctimonious" BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #29

And on another thread I have DU'ers who say the law can be ignored n2doc Aug 2014 #40

Which is worse? MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #42

A wolf is better. zeemike Aug 2014 #65

Just curious- are you saying... TDale313 Aug 2014 #128

That was unclear. zeemike Aug 2014 #148

Is the wolf Bush? BainsBane Aug 2014 #174

Dare I ask BainsBane Aug 2014 #80

The Geneva Convention BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #158

Didn't Bush screw around with that? BainsBane Aug 2014 #159

Yes, but it does not matter in international court BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #161

The senate refused to ratify the International Criminal Court BainsBane Aug 2014 #162

But other countries could and did try to indict them BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #164

Yes, there is a concept under human rights law BainsBane Aug 2014 #166

That is interesting information BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #169

Has Bush left the U.S. since Obama took office? I seem to recall at least one time winter is coming Aug 2014 #167

Yes, he has traveled but does keep canceling trips if there is threat of arrest BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #168

+1 L0oniX Aug 2014 #109

*You* *Don't* *Know* *What* *I* *Want* XRubicon Aug 2014 #41

Sadly the "There's nothing he can do!!!111" crowd can't even make that argument JoeyT Aug 2014 #44

+1! SammyWinstonJack Aug 2014 #72

Well, there's the "he can't tell the DOJ what to do!" argument MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #88

Of course they didn't take a moment to apologise, dear Manny. sibelian Aug 2014 #170

K & R !!! WillyT Aug 2014 #51

I'm sure it will be prosecuted Warpy Aug 2014 #56

^^This!^^ BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #157

Exactly. Some of them get away with it by dying in bed Warpy Aug 2014 #176

Yes, I think Cheney and maybe Rumsfeld might die first. Bush will become a severe alcoholic BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #177

Oh, it will be Warpy Aug 2014 #178

When has a President been held responsible before? hootinholler Aug 2014 #68

Nixon and Andrew Johnson BainsBane Aug 2014 #79

yeah and their heaven05 Aug 2014 #200

Well put, sir. n/t 99Forever Aug 2014 #69

Don't you know the ultimate punishment for them is to lose their job in power? Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #86

The purpose of such prosecutions is not to punish them per se BainsBane Aug 2014 #87

America is full of myths.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #91

Indeed. BainsBane Aug 2014 #93

That's because many haven't traveled. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #100

Well put. Sadly true. n/t TDale313 Aug 2014 #107

Funny type of hypocrisy Sheepshank Aug 2014 #89

I know BainsBane Aug 2014 #90

Well it WOULD be hypocritical if Manny was advocating the prosecution of Obama for war crimes sibelian Aug 2014 #196

FAIL...you fail fail fail fail fail in your assement. Sheepshank Aug 2014 #207

Man, Manny, they sure are after you RobertEarl Aug 2014 #102

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Aug 2014 #103

K & R L0oniX Aug 2014 #110

I agree with you, but there are two big obstacles to successful prosecution. Vattel Aug 2014 #111

Three big obstacles actually. cstanleytech Aug 2014 #120

True, that is another big obstacle. Vattel Aug 2014 #125

People have been put to death for the same offenses, I grant zero wiggle room. TheKentuckian Aug 2014 #123

Yes, people have been punished for torture, but it is doubtful that ordinary criminal laws against Vattel Aug 2014 #127

Yep...this. nt msanthrope Aug 2014 #198

if we need "clarification" that the following list is illegal questionseverything Aug 2014 #237

Those practices are clearly criminal. We don't need new legislation to Vattel Aug 2014 #242

No, he's not a king. He's a CEO of a multinational. nt valerief Aug 2014 #119

^^ Thread win. n/t winter is coming Aug 2014 #122

Well said... TheProgressive Aug 2014 #126

It's falling apart. moondust Aug 2014 #129

Totes. sibelian Aug 2014 #171

TORTURE. It <<is>> a black or white issue. You're either FOR it, or AGAINST it. And silence=consent. blkmusclmachine Aug 2014 #145

AGAINST BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #163

K&R DeSwiss Aug 2014 #154

K&R. JDPriestly Aug 2014 #179

Your understanding of civics is woefully lacking, as usual. joshcryer Aug 2014 #184

So Bush can't be charged for his role in torture. MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #185

Yes he can and should be. joshcryer Aug 2014 #186

we should have heaven05 Aug 2014 #187

Then why humbled_opinion Aug 2014 #191

if you think so heaven05 Aug 2014 #197

LOL Obfuscation... humbled_opinion Aug 2014 #244

Who are the fucking mouth-breathing assholes R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2014 #195

K & R GoneFishin Aug 2014 #208

Bushies "... owed Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton thank-you notes." Pholus Aug 2014 #209

But royalty is soooo dreamy!!! Think of the pomp and circumstance, Zorra Aug 2014 #210

Amen, Manny. K&R closeupready Aug 2014 #216

My ideals are never sullied by practical considerations. cheapdate Aug 2014 #219

In the end, we'll all come to love Big Brother. [n/t] Maedhros Aug 2014 #222

K&R ReRe Aug 2014 #224

Highly recommend. n/t Jefferson23 Aug 2014 #228

Here's a little history on the subject... bluesbassman Aug 2014 #230

Good post cwydro Aug 2014 #231

Conservatives will be no help nikto Aug 2014 #235

John Yoo, Dep Ass't AG, provided Bush, CIA & DoD legal cover, 4 "Enhanced Interrogation": 8/01/2002 Bill USA Aug 2014 #236