General Discussion

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)

77. Tough call.

Wed Aug 6, 2014, 12:54 PM

Aug 2014

However, if torture were actually effective, I could see some very restricted, desperate situations in which it might be defensible as the lesser of two evils (even though in itself it would always be a great evil).

Suppose someone had placed an atomic bomb somewhere on Manhattan with a timing device and you had captured the person responsible. Would you torture him for information on the location if that was the only way to save the city?

However, since torture is neither effective nor morally justifiable, my hypothetical is nothing more than that--a hypothetical. Torture is always indefensible.

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What is your principal objection to Torture? [View all] el_bryanto Aug 2014 OP

i think i am really 70-30 split on morality-ineffectiveness. La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2014 #1

Only pieces of motherfucking shit order, participate in, excuse, justify, and/or condone torture. Iggo Aug 2014 #2

I hear that.... daleanime Aug 2014 #5

Because I'm not a psychopath, my objection is that it's morally wrong. lumberjack_jeff Aug 2014 #3

Psychopath is a strong word - what is your definition of a psychopath? el_bryanto Aug 2014 #7

Personally, I'd say that debating the merits of torture based on it's utility is pretty close. lumberjack_jeff Aug 2014 #11

+1 leftstreet Aug 2014 #18

At the core: lack of empathy. LWolf Aug 2014 #88

It is CRUEL! elleng Aug 2014 #4

If you torture others, others will torture you. Warren Stupidity Aug 2014 #6

Are you asking me? el_bryanto Aug 2014 #9

It is a rhetorical question. Warren Stupidity Aug 2014 #10

That's my objection as well. Torture is NEVER to be used in a prisoner situation, napi21 Aug 2014 #27

My answer to the morally objectionable "ticking bomb" canard is this: Warren Stupidity Aug 2014 #51

I'm with elleng...it's cruel. You are HURTING someone. CaliforniaPeggy Aug 2014 #8

Never thought I'd see a question like this on DU n/t leftstreet Aug 2014 #12

I should make it clear from some of the comments that I oppose torture. NT el_bryanto Aug 2014 #13

It seems only because it is ineffective. Warren Stupidity Aug 2014 #24

Above 90% el_bryanto Aug 2014 #26

Could workers be tortured into higher productivity? leftstreet Aug 2014 #30

What? el_bryanto Aug 2014 #35

Could empty store shelves be 'national security?' leftstreet Aug 2014 #38

I answered this question above el_bryanto Aug 2014 #39

Your poll you answered "doesn't work". Warren Stupidity Aug 2014 #48

You really have a problem with reading comprehension sometimes el_bryanto Aug 2014 #54

No, your poll offered a third alternative that encompassed both and you rejected it Warren Stupidity Aug 2014 #61

You are really working over time to paint me as pro-torture el_bryanto Aug 2014 #62

So if we could be 90% sure that torturing Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's son Warren Stupidity Aug 2014 #50

The question answers itself; there is no reason to speculate that a 6 year el_bryanto Aug 2014 #55

No, but Khalid did and child torture is very effective in extracting information from a parent. Warren Stupidity Aug 2014 #60

OK - well you've had your moment of feeling morally superior el_bryanto Aug 2014 #63

So your principal objection is not "doesn't work". Warren Stupidity Aug 2014 #66

I see no reason to change my vote, and I won't be bullied into doing it. nt el_bryanto Aug 2014 #67

The bar on this issue seems to have been moved a bit to the right. n/t PoliticAverse Aug 2014 #28

Or see so many fail the test. n/t Orsino Aug 2014 #90

It's morally wrong. dawg Aug 2014 #14

Unless, of course, Obama is implementing it - Ms. Toad Aug 2014 #36

morally wrong, hands down ! nt steve2470 Aug 2014 #15

Once again, may I remind you two pro-torture people KamaAina Aug 2014 #16

Thank you. Two more names added to my ignore list. [n/t] Maedhros Aug 2014 #22

AFAIC "doesn't work" is pro torture. Warren Stupidity Aug 2014 #53

That's not accurate. nt el_bryanto Aug 2014 #57

There is only one objection sarisataka Aug 2014 #17

Torture is not only morally wrong and ineffective, IronGate Aug 2014 #19

Thank you marions ghost Aug 2014 #29

Oh yeah? Well someone got some official letters from some lawyers that says it's a-ok... PoliticAverse Aug 2014 #31

The Torture Memos, Yoo, Gonzales...it's all there Lars39 Aug 2014 #34

Effectiveness is irrelevant. Torture is morally wrong, as are those who condone it. [n/t] Maedhros Aug 2014 #20

It's morally wrong and has no place in a civilised society founded on the rule of law. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2014 #21

“May all that have life be delivered from suffering” ― Gautama Buddha Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2014 #23

Joe Navarro, one of the F.B.I.’s top experts in questioning techniques, told The New Yorker... LanternWaste Aug 2014 #25

If someone kidnapped my child and I was in a position to extract their location Puzzledtraveller Aug 2014 #32

How many innocent people would you be willing to torture... Iggo Aug 2014 #40

not playing, but thank you for offering Puzzledtraveller Aug 2014 #58

Hey, it's your ball. Iggo Aug 2014 #59

And waste time hunting down bad leads based on the bogus information you'd get? NuclearDem Aug 2014 #42

Their is a part of me that wants the Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #33

What happens when someone thinks CJCRANE Aug 2014 #37

I'll try to answer this way Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #52

Torture hurts. Zorra Aug 2014 #41

Well, loosen it up a bit. n/t A HERETIC I AM Aug 2014 #65

I can't. Zorra Aug 2014 #68

Are you familiar with the principle that says rock Aug 2014 #43

I'm familiar with that principal but don't believe it to be how el_bryanto Aug 2014 #45

True rock Aug 2014 #46

I oppose torture whether or not it's effective. Shrike47 Aug 2014 #44

My objection is moral. As for effectiveness, I think that's situational. Silent3 Aug 2014 #47

Indeed? Perhaps you should speak with Alan West. Savannahmann Aug 2014 #84

How is your response relevant to what I just wrote? Silent3 Aug 2014 #86

Torture is wrong and the fact that is ineffective just further bolsters the complete wrongness TheKentuckian Aug 2014 #49

It's prone to being ineffective and generating false information nt Matrosov Aug 2014 #56

I have not nor ever will torture anything but myself. BlueJazz Aug 2014 #64

Yet when that torture is for sexual arrousal BainsBane Aug 2014 #69

Meaningless garbage. sibelian Aug 2014 #71

And if that consent is coerced? el_bryanto Aug 2014 #73

I didn't think you'd get a response BainsBane Aug 2014 #92

Good trolling, by the way. sibelian Aug 2014 #72

I would be interested in seeing a link to that. How many people are we rhett o rick Aug 2014 #74

Remember the 50 shades of Grey discussion? BainsBane Aug 2014 #75

But this is a discussion about torture and I don't remember anyone condoning torture even for sex. rhett o rick Aug 2014 #79

Not in this thread BainsBane Aug 2014 #81

Here is her excellent post BainsBane Aug 2014 #91

I am a human being with a functioning moral compass. woo me with science Aug 2014 #70

How about "So they don't torture OUR guys?" Xithras Aug 2014 #76

That's a good argument - it does seem more in the practical rather than moral objections column NT el_bryanto Aug 2014 #78

Tough call. Jackpine Radical Aug 2014 #77

In the US Go Vols Aug 2014 #80

that is an important issue as well - el_bryanto Aug 2014 #82

My objection to torture, is, that its torture. abakan Aug 2014 #83

I don't condone it, but understand why it is used. Xyzse Aug 2014 #85

Excuse me? Garthem Aug 2014 #87

Folks piss me off. L0oniX Aug 2014 #89