General Discussion

WilliamPitt

(58,179 posts)

338. I used to have an enormous amount of respect for you.

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 05:30 PM

Aug 2014

And then I saw your reply in a thread two days ago in which a DUer pleaded to other DUers not to rationalize torture...and you did exactly that. Here you are, doing it again.

You were against torture during the Bush administration. I read every word you wrote.

Now, you're tying yourself in knots to justify it, by defending the guy who just tried to justify it and excuse it and dismiss it, by deploying strawmen about my "need" to stoke "outrage" to "my audience."

Ad hominem bullshit.

The NanceGreggs I knew ten years ago would be ashamed of the NanceGreggs before me today.

And the really, really, really shitty part?

You know it, too. At least I really hope so. I understand to-the-knife defense of things we believe deeply in.

But the person and writer and advocate you were would be ashamed of you today, and I think you know it.

All too well.

Farewell, old friend. I once respected you.

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The Dumpster Fire of Obama's Moral Authority [View all] WilliamPitt Aug 2014 OP

. MohRokTah Aug 2014 #1

Somehow I doubt you read that article in a minute. nt Union Scribe Aug 2014 #3

He's paid by the hour. Marr Aug 2014 #12

. MohRokTah Aug 2014 #25

Look. another penny. R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2014 #37

. MohRokTah Aug 2014 #52

ka-CHING! pa28 Aug 2014 #108

And the jury results are in... aikoaiko Aug 2014 #300

Because accusing a DUer of being a paid shill makes you look good? mythology Aug 2014 #272

But kneejerk dismissals of critical articles, posted clearly without having read them... Marr Aug 2014 #302

How do you know the person didn't read it prior to coming here? davidpdx Aug 2014 #361

No comment, no justification, just "I don't like this." mindwalker_i Aug 2014 #19

A thumbs down means the president thinks torture is OK? Give me a break! Maraya1969 Aug 2014 #32

"A thumbs down means the president thinks torture is OK?" mindwalker_i Aug 2014 #44

Nuremberg was different. Everyone wan't the trial. With Bush, Cheney et al there would be plenty Maraya1969 Aug 2014 #351

So your argument now is that it would be hard? mindwalker_i Aug 2014 #354

I agree. There are leaps of logic in the OP that are unacceptable. Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #46

of course it does. he hasn't prosecuted anyone for anything. Silence means agreement. roguevalley Aug 2014 #118

He called the torturers "patriots" and those who want prosecution of said torturers "sanctimonious" cui bono Aug 2014 #149

Well said. Some are apologizing for the President apologizing for torture. nm rhett o rick Aug 2014 #185

Oh please post the exact quote from Obama. I really want to see it. Maraya1969 Aug 2014 #352

Then you'll be excited to see this video of him saying it himself: cui bono Aug 2014 #353

So where in any of that did are these words you just attributed to him, "He called the torturers " Maraya1969 Aug 2014 #355

Oh, sorry. I don't know how, but somehow I thought you were talking about him likening himself cui bono Aug 2014 #356

He said, "A lot" not "The torturers" And the quote about torture said we did a lot of things right Maraya1969 Aug 2014 #358

Yes, that's exactly who he was talking about. That was the subject at hand. Torture. cui bono Aug 2014 #359

The President just said that we "tortured folks". Mojorabbit Aug 2014 #183

Give you a break? For defending the President who seems determined to give Dick Cheney the medal rhett o rick Aug 2014 #184

Too afraid to not torture. Too afraid to prosecute. Fear seems a powerful motivator Ed Suspicious Aug 2014 #288

Great satire! WinkyDink Aug 2014 #259

no Skittles Aug 2014 #45

Yes, it is sheer hypocricy mindwalker_i Aug 2014 #49

alas, it is not just a Democratic president Skittles Aug 2014 #54

Post removed Post removed Aug 2014 #20

in other words stupidicus Aug 2014 #31

I like that. I hope you don't mind if I use something similar. With regard the sad sniping by those rhett o rick Aug 2014 #310

thanks, and use away rick stupidicus Aug 2014 #336

Down with the Constitution and up with War Crimes? Is that what you intended to sabrina 1 Aug 2014 #122

Cheney/Bush/Rumsfeld and all the rest didn't torture because they were scared WHEN CRABS ROAR Aug 2014 #208

If you're asking me to 'stop all this nonsense' you don't have to. I KNOW why Cheney/Bush/ sabrina 1 Aug 2014 #266

Well they certainly didn't torture because they were patriots. Enthusiast Aug 2014 #284

Wow! Enthusiast Aug 2014 #283

. Ed Suspicious Aug 2014 #289

. stonecutter357 Aug 2014 #137

Hey stonecutter, do mind me jumping in here to say I think LordGlenconner got a Hide Cha Aug 2014 #264

+A Brazillion! N/T Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2014 #291

Obama also said the word "the"... pisses me off when he said "the" and even drags it out sometimes uponit7771 Aug 2014 #2

That is not even cute. Demit Aug 2014 #6

Relative to the last time the "piece of shit" president said something someone didn't like i think uponit7771 Aug 2014 #146

Words Akira Watts Aug 2014 #7

Hey...didn't Will Pitt just post an article of yours here? Are you returning msanthrope Aug 2014 #30

Technically, yes, but with some explanation Akira Watts Aug 2014 #34

Awesome! So, did you agree with Will that the President is a piece of shit used car msanthrope Aug 2014 #50

Outrage generates eye-balls. JoePhilly Aug 2014 #61

And clicks!!! To third-party websites that need clicks! nt msanthrope Aug 2014 #63

Bingo. nt SunSeeker Aug 2014 #127

Well.... sheshe2 Aug 2014 #268

OMG.....THAT IS PERFECT!!! nt msanthrope Aug 2014 #277

Click Click Click... sheshe2 Aug 2014 #342

You are so right. cui bono Aug 2014 #177

Salesman? Akira Watts Aug 2014 #64

Not surprising since your wife is BFF with Will! sheshe2 Aug 2014 #271

? Akira Watts Aug 2014 #275

That's a really nasty question for someone who might not be aware of the context. Electric Monk Aug 2014 #98

Oh...he understood it. Don't forget to click the link! Money in msanthrope Aug 2014 #100

Click bait? Akira Watts Aug 2014 #104

Oh...I read nothing Will Pitt writes. Not since he failed to address some serious msanthrope Aug 2014 #120

Misinformation Akira Watts Aug 2014 #121

Yes....misinformation.... msanthrope Aug 2014 #126

Post where you like Akira Watts Aug 2014 #128

Oh, thanks for the permission, kind sir!!! Yeah....how about I continue to post msanthrope Aug 2014 #130

No problem, gentle sir Akira Watts Aug 2014 #133

Dude...you are telling me to read for "comprehensive?" My gender is clearly part of my username msanthrope Aug 2014 #134

Apologies Akira Watts Aug 2014 #136

Good writers should never assume anything. nt msanthrope Aug 2014 #139

I like to assume the absurd and see what comes of it. nt Akira Watts Aug 2014 #152

Great...another over-educated blogger who thinks he's the second coming of msanthrope Aug 2014 #156

I'd much rather be the second coming off James Joyce... Akira Watts Aug 2014 #162

The second coming "off" James Joyce? I bet you didn't even mean to write something that msanthrope Aug 2014 #168

Autocorrect failure caught, good show Akira Watts Aug 2014 #176

See? Hang with me, your writing improves. nt msanthrope Aug 2014 #180

Clearly... Akira Watts Aug 2014 #182

And as you can see by this exchange there is plenty of absurdity on DU! cui bono Aug 2014 #172

Welcome to DU. Don't worry about the perpetually bitter and aggrieved. DisgustipatedinCA Aug 2014 #140

Thanks Akira Watts Aug 2014 #143

there's a dedicated group here who m-lekktor Aug 2014 #145

I'd heard... Akira Watts Aug 2014 #155

A Table Talker? grasswire Aug 2014 #281

Liberals don't need a hall monitor. nm rhett o rick Aug 2014 #186

The pettiness of this sub-thread is amazing. neverforget Aug 2014 #263

Some are in DU to discuss issues, others to ridicule, alert, lock and hide. nm rhett o rick Aug 2014 #269

It is a very serious occupation. woo me with science Aug 2014 #299

I suggest that we put them all on ignore or form a progressive group free from trouble makers. nm rhett o rick Aug 2014 #301

Stalker-esque, yep, you have her pegged already! BuelahWitch Aug 2014 #171

Then why are you posting in a thread of Pitt's? Just to harass a new DUer? cui bono Aug 2014 #167

Harass? We are having a lovely literary discussion! msanthrope Aug 2014 #173

How about at least trying to make one? cui bono Aug 2014 #175

In utter fairness Akira Watts Aug 2014 #181

You committed a funny autocorrect error! nt msanthrope Aug 2014 #189

Yay! Autocorrect error! That means Obama is perfect and we can all go home! Yay! nt Akira Watts Aug 2014 #192

You are far more gracious and witty than your newly appointed and ardent defenders Number23 Aug 2014 #240

I am sure he will enjoy his stay. nt msanthrope Aug 2014 #252

Well....Number23... sheshe2 Aug 2014 #265

? Again Akira Watts Aug 2014 #276

Actually, sheshe2 Aug 2014 #292

Which username was that again? woo me with science Aug 2014 #296

What'cha implying there, woo? QC Aug 2014 #314

Aaah that's so woo woo woo you. sheshe2 Aug 2014 #339

omg.... that is classic. cui bono Aug 2014 #357

True, yes Akira Watts Aug 2014 #298

You're sharp. woo me with science Aug 2014 #297

"lovely literary discussion"? malokvale77 Aug 2014 #220

Pretty funny. You don't read anything he writes, but you make sure to show up Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2014 #205

As I always say in these cases, WilliamPitt Aug 2014 #206

+1 Hekate Aug 2014 #270

Context Akira Watts Aug 2014 #102

a sincere and warm welcome to DU! grasswire Aug 2014 #129

You just had a run in with our resident lawyer. Autumn Aug 2014 #210

I'm no lawyer. . . Akira Watts Aug 2014 #219

I like you Autumn Aug 2014 #226

Now why would you bring that up again and again and again? Just trying to keep things stirred up rhett o rick Aug 2014 #309

Why wouldn't I bring it up? Seriously....it's a proud and shining moment for the OP, isn't it? nt msanthrope Aug 2014 #317

No but it seems you are obsessed with attacking the OP author. It has nothing to do with this rhett o rick Aug 2014 #319

No? It wasn't a proud and shining moment? nt msanthrope Aug 2014 #320

You mean your ad hominem attack? Glad you saw the light. nm rhett o rick Aug 2014 #322

No--I mean the OP's magnum opus. Don't be coy, rhett....it does not suit you. nt msanthrope Aug 2014 #324

So I got it wrong and you're proud of your ad hominem attack. Whatever. nm rhett o rick Aug 2014 #325

How is referencing the OP's own writings an ad hominem attack? You remind me of msanthrope Aug 2014 #326

The only reason for you to bring up what the OP author said in a different OP rhett o rick Aug 2014 #327

It's not an attack; it's esoteric performance art. nt Akira Watts Aug 2014 #331

How is it an attack, to quote the OP's own words back to them? nt msanthrope Aug 2014 #335

"Because clearly, the article involved picking a random selection of Obamas words and flying into a" uponit7771 Aug 2014 #147

Perhaps Akira Watts Aug 2014 #158

That's truly plumbing the depths of dumb LondonReign2 Aug 2014 #78

This message was self-deleted by its author Electric Monk Aug 2014 #111

Unbelievable. You seem to think torture is just a quaint little thing we shouldn't bother cui bono Aug 2014 #151

I also think cute little bunny rabbit ears are too long... so.. snip snip :rolleyes: uponit7771 Aug 2014 #157

So you don't think torture is immoral then? cui bono Aug 2014 #164

Poutrage Akira Watts Aug 2014 #165

I like your style, AW. Welcome to DU! Divernan Aug 2014 #166

Welcome to DU malokvale77 Aug 2014 #223

Thanks Akira Watts Aug 2014 #224

Good malokvale77 Aug 2014 #229

what is worse than him defending the people who committed torture? questionseverything Aug 2014 #191

Torture. You're talking about innocent people tortured to death here. grahamhgreen Aug 2014 #216

He also said the words 'we tortured'. The word WE 'chaps MY hide' because WE sabrina 1 Aug 2014 #303

If you don't have a reasonable argument or comment, you should just add rhett o rick Aug 2014 #307

. L0oniX Aug 2014 #4

The Friday Dumpster kentuck Aug 2014 #5

Some days I'm ashamed to be an American, and to have supported this man. Scuba Aug 2014 #8

Me, too. DrBulldog Aug 2014 #13

I feel exactly the same way. hifiguy Aug 2014 #17

Me too. SammyWinstonJack Aug 2014 #257

Ever since I read the preview of this article... derby378 Aug 2014 #9

He became a nonperson for me that day. ballyhoo Aug 2014 #10

Obama is the most enigmatic president pscot Aug 2014 #11

he seems very conventional to me Enrique Aug 2014 #22

He is pragmatic, sometimes to a fault. Puzzledtraveller Aug 2014 #190

He won Ad Age's Marketer of the Year in 2008 RufusTFirefly Aug 2014 #33

Succinctly stated, Rufus. Obama is a brand, as Chris Hedges has been at pains to make everyone aware truth2power Aug 2014 #125

+1 countryjake Aug 2014 #138

Well said. cui bono Aug 2014 #154

Thanks! RufusTFirefly Aug 2014 #213

Yes, exactly. cui bono Aug 2014 #231

A corporate award, woo me with science Aug 2014 #344

That's an easy one. Service the people at the top. Marr Aug 2014 #97

Excellent article Will. As a person who gets all "sanctimonious" about torture Autumn Aug 2014 #14

The "Talking Down" to us....(Human Rights Advocates & Organizations) KoKo Aug 2014 #15

He had a similar attitude towards teachers. chervilant Aug 2014 #278

I voted for him with great enthusiasm in '08 hifiguy Aug 2014 #16

I like your final thoughts the best, the last graf at the link. Yes, the man is hollow. Demit Aug 2014 #18

.... 840high Aug 2014 #26

These words spoken by the president made my blood run cold. I would never vote for him again. northoftheborder Aug 2014 #35

This ^^^^ RobinA Aug 2014 #85

Good post. (n/t) WorseBeforeBetter Aug 2014 #221

How did I miss this post before? woo me with science Aug 2014 #348

I had a post hidden one time PowerToThePeople Aug 2014 #21

well, time is the great healer and revealer stupidicus Aug 2014 #23

K&R DeSwiss Aug 2014 #24

It is just his personal manner of speech, William. You should know better. Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #27

I see a lot of people WilliamPitt Aug 2014 #29

I understand. But tone is important, you begin with a character assassination, and then pull back on Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #36

giving torture a pass Skittles Aug 2014 #66

I think he can speak for himself, thank you very much for your input. Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #69

He did speak for himself and he called the torturers "patriots" and those that want prosecution cui bono Aug 2014 #161

Do you like cinnamon in your apple pie? Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #196

I love cinnamon! And apple pie! cui bono Aug 2014 #230

That was the delivery. Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #247

Then you need to work on your timing. cui bono Aug 2014 #258

LOLOL Skittles Aug 2014 #315

It's a keeper, right down to the pie. Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #316

No, he started with mild criticism of 'folks', and built through "people were afraid" muriel_volestrangler Aug 2014 #87

Tone is totally important. And I was thinking you missed the boat. Pres Obama's tone was completely rhett o rick Aug 2014 #321

I did not take his speech as an apology, more a resignation that there is nothing he can do without Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #323

If it was only resignation, he could have condemned it and indicated his resignation. He did rhett o rick Aug 2014 #328

I love cinnamon with my apple pie! Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #329

I guess that means you've run out of things to say. nm rhett o rick Aug 2014 #330

The torture wasn't done out of fear. Anu Ghraib was not about fear. arcane1 Aug 2014 #39

This message was self-deleted by its author Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #42

It's very effective at breaking people, and societies. arcane1 Aug 2014 #53

You believe it was staged to create fear in Iraqis and the world..not to mess with the likes of us? Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #71

You are correct 4Q2u2 Aug 2014 #89

Given many of the released photos, I'd say that "sadistic pleasure" had a lot to do with it. gtar100 Aug 2014 #68

I was not referring to Abu Ghraib, I was talking about the fear in America....I agree with your post Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #73

You said the truth right there. You look at those photos. There is no fear on their faces, those in Autumn Aug 2014 #67

I was talking about the fear of the general public, as I thought my post clearly said. I agree that Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #76

The problem isn't "folks" it's "TORTURED" MNBrewer Aug 2014 #40

Obama is to Constitutional Scholar as a paramedic is to board certified MD Divernan Aug 2014 #83

O admittted bipartisanship means Dems ignore the poor, the environment, etc. Divernan Aug 2014 #92

I'd say he's more like a homeopath. Marr Aug 2014 #101

I think we need to keep the powder wet until after the elections this year. Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #105

and the next elections, and the next elections and the next elections... MNBrewer Aug 2014 #304

Exactly Akira Watts Aug 2014 #305

I meant keep the powder wet, meaning not screaming at the President....time for that later. Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #312

That really surprises me, I thought he was. Autumn Aug 2014 #209

Wow! Non Sequitur! Divernan Aug 2014 #225

So if he had said "We tortured some guys & gals" that would've been unremarkable too? Demit Aug 2014 #55

Exactly Akira Watts Aug 2014 #84

Oh yes! "Sanctimonious" sealed the deal for me too. Demit Aug 2014 #110

This is not about President Obamas choice of vocabulary. onecaliberal Aug 2014 #91

I think a few people were kind of held accountable Art_from_Ark Aug 2014 #282

Yes two people were punished. onecaliberal Aug 2014 #306

OBAMA USED THE WORD "THE"!!!! DAMMIT!!! uponit7771 Aug 2014 #148

Soooooooooo weak. Divernan Aug 2014 #169

Sigh... chervilant Aug 2014 #280

The Strawman re. the word "folks" is long been destroyed. rhett o rick Aug 2014 #187

Wow... Just, wow... chervilant Aug 2014 #279

President Obama couldn't prosecute Bush and Cheney, so... Octafish Aug 2014 #28

Funny how 'folks' were told to be afraid after that new Pearl Harbor. valerief Aug 2014 #38

that is my problem. mopinko Aug 2014 #51

Who is "he"? I was talking about the PNACers and their echo machine. nt valerief Aug 2014 #57

i was trying to make a point that mopinko Aug 2014 #70

Goodbye valerief Aug 2014 #72

whatever. mopinko Aug 2014 #109

This message was self-deleted by its author LanternWaste Aug 2014 #160

"the populace whisperer" Psephos Aug 2014 #58

K&R x 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 !!!!!!!! SamKnause Aug 2014 #41

Content aside, I think it's so enraging because it sounds like Bush. LeftyMom Aug 2014 #43

It was a speech by Bush delivered by Obama. pa28 Aug 2014 #107

as most regular readers here already know, I couldn't agree more bigtree Aug 2014 #47

This is a great post. danriker Aug 2014 #86

many thanks, Dan bigtree Aug 2014 #106

Thank you for a most excellent post. scarletwoman Aug 2014 #238

I hope everyone reads this post BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #239

+ a gazillion. nt Mojorabbit Aug 2014 #241

a fiefdom at the whim of presidential policy. Ichingcarpenter Aug 2014 #48

I thought that too. Banning torture is like banning human sacrifice. Demit Aug 2014 #142

....justice seems only for those that can afford it sadly... AuntPatsy Aug 2014 #56

"We tortured some folks" rock Aug 2014 #59

So many people, so ignorant of all political reality. Ikonoklast Aug 2014 #60

Finally someone in the goverment admits we tortured people Peacetrain Aug 2014 #62

That is how I understood it. tavernier Aug 2014 #75

Patriots Akira Watts Aug 2014 #80

Welcome here to DU, Akira Watts! countryjake Aug 2014 #153

He was explicitly absolving those in higher seats of power of any responsibility muriel_volestrangler Aug 2014 #90

And called the people that opposed torture sanctimonius. JoeyT Aug 2014 #214

Obama clearly says that HE sees them as patriots. You're giving him a pass on this... truth2power Aug 2014 #318

K&R The government wrapped itself around a lie on 9/11 whatchamacallit Aug 2014 #65

Very good and as you may have noticed, I facebooked it. mmonk Aug 2014 #74

The Guns of July....Let's Blame It All on Obama tgards79 Aug 2014 #77

Um...what does this have to do with a cover-up of Bush-era crimes? [n/t] Maedhros Aug 2014 #81

What has your link got to do with what Obama said? (nt) muriel_volestrangler Aug 2014 #95

DURec leftstreet Aug 2014 #79

The reason he's not prosecuting those "patriots" is because a lot of Dems signed off on torture. Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2014 #82

Prosecutions Akira Watts Aug 2014 #88

That's a piss-poor reason. Maedhros Aug 2014 #242

Why do you hate fascism, you "sanctimonious" "f****in' r****d" liberal? Zorra Aug 2014 #93

Good one! Didn't Rham Emanual use both of those terms to describe liberals? Thought so. n/t truth2power Aug 2014 #333

Obama offers the "Otter Defense" tularetom Aug 2014 #94

TAKE ACTION: Here's what whistleblowers want the public to do/Hint: it isn't piling on the president proverbialwisdom Aug 2014 #96

Recommend..and checking out the provided action links.. KoKo Aug 2014 #116

Ummmm rtracey Aug 2014 #99

K&R ReRe Aug 2014 #103

K & R historylovr Aug 2014 #112

Hannah Arendt called it 'banal' back when matters like torture and crimes against humanity actually VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #362

I like that term. historylovr Aug 2014 #364

I call it "Third Way blase." woo me with science Aug 2014 #365

While your moral authority expired at least 10 years ago. frazzled Aug 2014 #113

ok, please do so. nt Electric Monk Aug 2014 #117

Moral authority Akira Watts Aug 2014 #119

Please explain krawhitham Aug 2014 #124

I asked the OP permission to explain, not other posters frazzled Aug 2014 #131

Did I hear correctly that you are good friends with Glenn Beck? I'm just asking.... n/t xocet Aug 2014 #188

Are you? frazzled Aug 2014 #202

Apparently, you did not get it. n/t xocet Aug 2014 #204

Your call out reminds me of McCarthy's fictional "list" Divernan Aug 2014 #200

Agreed Akira Watts Aug 2014 #201

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Aug 2014 #114

He's been such a forgettable president LittleBlue Aug 2014 #115

On many issues, Obama exceeded the efforts of Bush. Maedhros Aug 2014 #243

His foreign policy is Bush + competence nt Akira Watts Aug 2014 #246

Numerous writers and others have observed that Obama's foreign policy Maedhros Aug 2014 #255

He looked and sounded like a bored restaurant manager who already has his orders from the owner. pa28 Aug 2014 #123

+1 leftstreet Aug 2014 #150

Let me emphasize what Obama is saying, here... truth2power Aug 2014 #132

Never a constitutional scholar or expert in either academia OR the courtroom Divernan Aug 2014 #197

Thanks, so much, divernan, for your detailed work on Mr. Obama's tenure truth2power Aug 2014 #332

You're welcome. Some good investigative reporters did the work. Divernan Aug 2014 #334

Lately I've noticed that he's starting to tell it like it is. QuestForSense Aug 2014 #135

Post removed Post removed Aug 2014 #141

You got me. WilliamPitt Aug 2014 #144

Excellent piece Mr Pitt. iemitsu Aug 2014 #159

Sometimes, DUers play as though torture began and ended during the Bush administration, and merrily Aug 2014 #163

Keep in mind that CIA black sites have continued to operate under Obama. Maedhros Aug 2014 #249

Yes, thank you. Amnesty International raised that, too. merrily Aug 2014 #343

How the hell do I still receive your bullshit albino65 Aug 2014 #170

Karma. WilliamPitt Aug 2014 #178

... Rex Aug 2014 #179

You are obviously doing it wrong. Post in ATA and the admins can teach you how to use ignore. Autumn Aug 2014 #211

been there, done that albino65 Aug 2014 #236

Gonna pass on that Autumn Aug 2014 #261

Or, in other words, "I wish I knew how to quit you" derby378 Aug 2014 #215

Agreed! deerheadgal Aug 2014 #251

Thanks for another great essay, Will. countryjake Aug 2014 #174

I'm fine with lots of different reactions getting out there for people to wiggs Aug 2014 #193

I like your phrase 'Obama's position as acting president.' Demit Aug 2014 #212

It's as if he's going out of the way to avoid offending pro-torture people. Maedhros Aug 2014 #254

Obama's soft peddling on torture reveals who Obama is. No more campaign lies to get in his way, blkmusclmachine Aug 2014 #194

Depressing but true. Joe Bacon Aug 2014 #360

I agree Marrah_G Aug 2014 #195

My first time ... GeorgeGist Aug 2014 #198

Our power will never help us live this down. ancianita Aug 2014 #199

Excellent piece. n/t xocet Aug 2014 #203

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Aug 2014 #207

Kick 'n' Rec malokvale77 Aug 2014 #217

Lest we forget... kentuck Aug 2014 #218

Just in time for November elections! JaneyVee Aug 2014 #222

It's not nihilism Akira Watts Aug 2014 #227

Oh, it's nihilism. JaneyVee Aug 2014 #233

Tear it down Akira Watts Aug 2014 #234

I'm in the other camp. JaneyVee Aug 2014 #248

Messiahs Akira Watts Aug 2014 #253

+1000000 A revolting spectacle from an American president woo me with science Aug 2014 #287

Kick & unrec. NYC Liberal Aug 2014 #228

K & R !!! WillyT Aug 2014 #232

The popcorn threads are the best. BKH70041 Aug 2014 #235

Mr. Obama's torturing us with his logic defending torture. There isn't enough alcohol whereisjustice Aug 2014 #237

rec! SammyWinstonJack Aug 2014 #244

Thank you Will, woo me with science Aug 2014 #245

They tortured children in front of their parents to get their parents to talk. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #250

K&R elias49 Aug 2014 #256

Prosecuting torturers is off the table. Or, to put it the proper way, prosecuting the 1% is off the WinkyDink Aug 2014 #260

sanctimonious is right. or ignorance. certainot Aug 2014 #262

A Sanctimonious K&R bobduca Aug 2014 #267

Well said emsimon33 Aug 2014 #273

Out of curiosity mythology Aug 2014 #274

What a slimy and despicable tactic of apologism, woo me with science Aug 2014 #313

"...how little it takes to push somebody towards using violence..." WilliamPitt Aug 2014 #347

Kicked and recommended! Enthusiast Aug 2014 #285

Do be sanctimonious. Look down your noses with a mix of disdain and pity at those so lacking in Ed Suspicious Aug 2014 #286

... woo me with science Aug 2014 #290

Bravo! Bravo! Bravo!....... Hotler Aug 2014 #293

Well said MissDeeds Aug 2014 #294

Life in the short-timers bubble Politicub Aug 2014 #295

Horse shit. 6000eliot Aug 2014 #308

I agree, disgusting. blackspade Aug 2014 #311

What Obama actually said was ... NanceGreggs Aug 2014 #337

I used to have an enormous amount of respect for you. WilliamPitt Aug 2014 #338

In my post on the thread you're referring to ... NanceGreggs Aug 2014 #340

Find a mirror. WilliamPitt Aug 2014 #341

kick woo me with science Aug 2014 #345

Happy 200th. n/t BelgianMadCow Aug 2014 #346

kick woo me with science Aug 2014 #349

a sad k&r... spanone Aug 2014 #350

You need to give President Obama a bit more leverage! akbacchus_BC Aug 2014 #363