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Douglas Carpenter

(20,226 posts)
43. that is simply NOT true!
Sat Aug 9, 2014, 09:34 AM
Aug 2014
to quote former Israeli Foreign Minister, Shlomo Ben-Ami from his book, Scars of War Wounds of Peace: The Arab Israeli Tragedy

from page 42:

"The reality on the ground was at times far simpler and more cruel than what Ben-Gurion was ready to acknowledge. It was that of an Arab community in a state of terror facing a ruthless Israeli army whose path to victory was paved not only by its exploits against the regular Arab armies, but also by the intimidation, at at times atrocities and massacres it perpetrated against the civilian Arab community. A panic-stricken Arab community was uprooted under the impact of massacres that would be carved into the Arabs' monument of grief and hatred."


and from page 43:

" Benny Morris found no evidence to show 'that either the leaders of the Arab states or the Mufti ordered or directly encouraged the mass exodus'. Indeed Morris found evidence to the effect that the local Arab leadership and militia commanders discouraged flight, and the Arab radio stations issued calls to the Palestinians to stay put, and even to return to their homes if they had already left. True, there were more than a few cases where local Arab commanders ordered the evacuation of villages. But these seemed to gave been tactical decisions taken under very specific military conditions..."

From page 44:

"The first major wave of Arab exodus in April-May 1948, essentially in the wake of the Dir Yassin massacre that was perpetrated by Lehi and Irgun with the Haganah's connivance and the unfolding of Plan D, might perhaps have taken the leadership of the Yishuv by surprise. But they undoubtedly saw an opportunity to be exploited, a phenomenon to rejoice at -- Manachem Begin wrote in his memoirs, The Revolt, that 'out of evil, however, good came-and be encouraged. 'Doesn't he have anything more important to do?' was Ben-Gurion's reaction when told, during his visit to Haifa on 1 May 1948 that a local Jewish leader was trying to convince Arabs not to leave. 'Drive them out!' was Ben-Gurion's instruction to Yigal Allon, as recorded by Yitzak Rabin in a censored passage of his memoirs published in a censored passage of his memoirs published in 1979, with regard to the Arabs of Lydda after the city had been taken over on 11 July 1948....Plan D, however, was a major cause for the exodus, for it was strategically driven by the notion of creating Jewish contiguity even beyond the partition lines and, therefore by the desire to have a Jewish state with the smallest number of Arabs.

from page 44:

"The debate about whether or not the mass exodus of Palestinians was the result of a Zionist design or the inevitable concomitant of war could not ignore the ideological constructs that motivated the Zionist enterprise. The philosophy of transfer was not a marginal, esoteric article....These ideological constructs provided a legitimate environment for commanders in the field to encourage the eviction of the local population even when no precise order to that effect was issued by the political leaders. As early as February 1948, that is before the mass exodus had started but after he witnessed how Arabs had fled West Jerusalem, Ben-Gurion could not hide his excitement."

"Ben-Gurion's reaction when told, during his visit to Haifa on 1 May 1948 that a local Jewish leader was trying to convince Arabs not to leave. 'Drive them out!' was Ben-Gurion's instruction to Yigal Allon, as recorded by Yitzak Rabin in a censored passage of his memoirs published in a censored passage of his memoirs published in 1979, with regard to the Arabs of Lydda after the city had been taken over on 11 July 1948....Plan D, however, was a major cause for the exodus, for it was strategically driven by the notion of creating Jewish contiguity even beyond the partition lines and, therefore by the desire to have a Jewish state with the smallest number of Arabs.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Israel could have chosen not to murder it's neighbors children 4now Aug 2014 #1
Post removed Post removed Aug 2014 #4
Indeed oberliner Aug 2014 #16
Precisely! BillZBubb Aug 2014 #21
The Hamas apologists blaming Israel for Hamas atrocities is pathetic. former9thward Aug 2014 #25
Give both sides... RedFury Aug 2014 #30
The Arab militaries were well armed by the Soviet Union. former9thward Aug 2014 #41
Israel drove 80% of the population out of Palestine in 1948 AgingAmerican Aug 2014 #31
No, they did not drive "80% of the population" out. former9thward Aug 2014 #40
that is simply NOT true! Douglas Carpenter Aug 2014 #43
That book is a score settling book. former9thward Aug 2014 #44
well if you don't accept the history from the standpoint of a former Israeli Foreign Minister Douglas Carpenter Aug 2014 #45
It's disappointing the evidence that is rejected out of hand..especially in this case. n/t Jefferson23 Aug 2014 #46
exactly MFM008 Aug 2014 #67
It is an indication of how much effort is placed on the propaganda for this conflict...fierce. n/t Jefferson23 Aug 2014 #69
We can trade quotes all day. former9thward Aug 2014 #52
NYT April 22, 1948:The Arabs agreed to leave Haifa by sea as a surrender condition to Zionist forces Douglas Carpenter Aug 2014 #55
Ironically, this incident is what led to the famous Blue Meany Aug 2014 #61
You actually believe this? AgingAmerican Aug 2014 #48
Nope Spider Jerusalem Aug 2014 #50
See post #52. former9thward Aug 2014 #54
Sorry, but that refers very specifically to the single town of Haifa. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2014 #56
Then why didn't they come back AgingAmerican Aug 2014 #57
They have been hoping for generations to come back as conquers. former9thward Aug 2014 #60
You actually believe this? AgingAmerican Aug 2014 #63
Do you have "You actually believe this?" cut/paste in your computer? former9thward Aug 2014 #64
Shame AgingAmerican Aug 2014 #65
To someone whose content in posts is "lol" former9thward Aug 2014 #66
Hamas apologists denying Israel's right to exist - right here. appal_jack Aug 2014 #47
Nope Spider Jerusalem Aug 2014 #51
Show where Israel affirms Palestine's right to exist AgingAmerican Aug 2014 #59
Israel could have had peace over a decade ago. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2014 #2
Date on that article is May 2001 oberliner Aug 2014 #17
And? Spider Jerusalem Aug 2014 #19
Until Fatah leaders were murdered in Gaza by Hamas. former9thward Aug 2014 #26
Had a deal been made, Hamas would have continued to ramp up attacks oberliner Aug 2014 #38
None of this would be happening if israel was not practicing apartheid against Purveyor Aug 2014 #3
Whenever I see someone use the fraudulent "apartheid" propaganda meme Fozzledick Aug 2014 #5
You seem to have a hard time focusing on the issue rather than the DUer. morningfog Aug 2014 #6
Not at all. The claim is a hateful fraud and part of a malicious propaganda campaign. Fozzledick Aug 2014 #10
Please. Whatever you tell yourself you are doing, you routinely personally attack DUers. morningfog Aug 2014 #13
Thank you. Bohunk68 Aug 2014 #39
That's desperation in all its glory. I would worry I was being thorough if it Purveyor Aug 2014 #11
after watching the excellent documentary "roadmap to apartheid" m-lekktor Aug 2014 #9
That is a very interesting looking documentary trailer 4now Aug 2014 #15
... Spider Jerusalem Aug 2014 #12
if it isn't apartheid... awoke_in_2003 Aug 2014 #24
I think the more apt question is, how close does a country need to get to that definiton before Jefferson23 Aug 2014 #68
Might as well RedFury Aug 2014 #32
The willfully blind and unabashed pro-Hamas support around this place is stunning. LTX Aug 2014 #36
Apartheid AgingAmerican Aug 2014 #49
The world is standing up to Isreali apartheid 4now Aug 2014 #14
The world is not. former9thward Aug 2014 #27
APARTHEID enid602 Aug 2014 #28
Petition asking White House to defund ‘apartheid’ Israel surpasses 100K signatures 4now Aug 2014 #33
100k Israel haters out of 315 million. former9thward Aug 2014 #42
The perfect microcosm.... catnhatnh Aug 2014 #62
Nor would it be happening if Hamas didn't spend the early 2000s blowing up Israeli civilians oberliner Aug 2014 #18
Clawing our way back to the earlier 2000's eh? The "Bulldozer/Butcher" Sharon legacy Purveyor Aug 2014 #23
I think you misunderstood oberliner Aug 2014 #37
The absence of war weakens Hamas. Throd Aug 2014 #7
No RobertEarl Aug 2014 #20
Likud could not accept the Palestinian Unity government. End of story. Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #8
You mean the Palestinians could have given in to Israeli occupation and brutalization. BillZBubb Aug 2014 #22
Sometimes, both sides are wrong. Live and Learn Aug 2014 #29
Why,exactly RedFury Aug 2014 #34
Because killing is never right and it never leads to anything but more killing. nt Live and Learn Aug 2014 #35
if i lived there i would prob be a member of hamas--so hate me dembotoz Aug 2014 #53
I'm sorry that I broke your fist with my nose... kentuck Aug 2014 #58
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