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politicman

(710 posts)

12. still doesnt change the valiidity of their question after Obamas latest moves..

Sat Aug 9, 2014, 01:07 PM

Aug 2014

What ever, Bush made it, Obama made it, doesn't matter who made it.

What matters is that America pretty much controlled Iraq when Obama pulled the troops out (even if there was an agreement), so the question becomes, should Obama have for seen an ineffectual Iraqi government and army that would leave a power vacuum that could be filled by some really extremist group?

Its an extremely difficult thing to for see, but when conservatives point out that Obama should have for seen it, frankly is extremely difficult to argue their point with Obama intervening militarily again.

In a way, Obama using force again bolsters their argument that U.S troops needed to stay their with or without the agreement of Iraqi government because a power vacuum still existed due to the ineffectuality of the Iraqi government and army.

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Some people warned of this "mess"... [View all] kentuck Aug 2014 OP

i suspect this will be the neocon bullshit all over the sunday morning snooze shows spanone Aug 2014 #1

You won't have to wait until Sunday to hear onecaliberal Aug 2014 #2

If he had prosecuted them instead of actually thinking that 'moving forward' would bring sabrina 1 Aug 2014 #63

And that's the truth. Louisiana1976 Aug 2014 #77

My guess is they will support the air strikes but say it's too little too late, we need more. grahamhgreen Aug 2014 #52

Is there a good reason why we don't just get our people out of Irbil, if they're so endangered? another_liberal Aug 2014 #61

What I'd like to see is a map of refugees, force structures, air strikes and oil fields. grahamhgreen Aug 2014 #70

This might interest you . . . another_liberal Aug 2014 #73

It's a bipartisan mess CJCRANE Aug 2014 #3

i find it hard to argue with conservatives after Obamas latest moves.. politicman Aug 2014 #4

I still think that's framing it in the Bush vs Obama way: CJCRANE Aug 2014 #5

No, if it was the same policy we would have invaded Iran by now. nt cstanleytech Aug 2014 #58

"...why not disregard what the Iraqi government wanted"..? kentuck Aug 2014 #6

its a legitimate question they ask that needs to have a proper answer.. politicman Aug 2014 #11

"should not have listened to the Iraqi government.." kentuck Aug 2014 #13

Your analysis is flawed... ljm2002 Aug 2014 #16

I am not arguing that Obama deserves initial blame for this mess, I am arguing that by Obama.. politicman Aug 2014 #41

Your assumption seems to be that this is all being done for Maliki and the Baghdad government? kentuck Aug 2014 #42

you said it yoruself.. politicman Aug 2014 #48

Bush had made the deal with the Iraqi government to leave. shraby Aug 2014 #8

still doesnt change the valiidity of their question after Obamas latest moves.. politicman Aug 2014 #12

It matters very much "who made it"-- truebluegreen Aug 2014 #32

Your criticism is missing a few facts. He's not using troops to sort out any Iraqi problems lunatica Aug 2014 #43

it always starts like that, doesnt it? politicman Aug 2014 #46

It's never simple. Never lunatica Aug 2014 #64

Is there any way to do this triage with the United Nations running it? tavalon Aug 2014 #68

To change the course of historical dots created by war lunatica Aug 2014 #72

We are in a time where a goodly portion of our constitution tavalon Aug 2014 #84

Agree wholeheartedly. Louisiana1976 Aug 2014 #78

Anytime someone starts with a I'm as _________ as they come... trumad Aug 2014 #54

I tend to think the O Administration is playing this one right. mark67 Aug 2014 #56

I still remember when the Bush-bots kept repeating that they had the moral Baitball Blogger Aug 2014 #7

Shouldn't have been there. And shouldn't have left Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #9

So we should stay forever? truebluegreen Aug 2014 #33

Drama much Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #35

How long then? truebluegreen Aug 2014 #37

He won't answer.... trumad Aug 2014 #55

Yeah, I know...since he can't. truebluegreen Aug 2014 #60

Believe it or not Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #81

A sovereign nation? Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #82

Silly. truebluegreen Aug 2014 #83

Yes Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #85

Um, no. truebluegreen Aug 2014 #86

Yes, let someone else do it. Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #87

"Let someone else do it who CAN." truebluegreen Aug 2014 #88

You mean like now Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #90

... kentuck Aug 2014 #10

"Distorted Reality. " littlemissmartypants Aug 2014 #24

We knew. Enthusiast Aug 2014 #65

The United States has made and is making a mess of this world. Iggo Aug 2014 #14

But remember we are not to look back. zeemike Aug 2014 #15

Yep, we told you so. Brigid Aug 2014 #17

The Right doesn't understand what went wrong.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #18

Spot on analysis. kairos12 Aug 2014 #22

Agree. nt littlemissmartypants Aug 2014 #25

That is the formula. Enthusiast Aug 2014 #66

bingo Botany Aug 2014 #19

+1000 kairos12 Aug 2014 #23

No accountability. I can point my finger at Obama for that. n/t PowerToThePeople Aug 2014 #20

No accountability but he does not respond by calling out the BS. nt bonniebgood Aug 2014 #21

You are so right. I truly wish he would chew them out. littlemissmartypants Aug 2014 #26

I agree so much! Often, I wish he would get angry it tell them all to F off. It's RKP5637 Aug 2014 #28

Sweet Madonna of Jesus... littlemissmartypants Aug 2014 #30

He also might be fed up with the job! ... schlepping along with the short timers disease. RKP5637 Aug 2014 #31

Thank you. nt littlemissmartypants Aug 2014 #34

The gifts from Bush, that just keep giving ... and the MIC is licking its RKP5637 Aug 2014 #27

The MIC and MSM are fucking evil....they invite the same bastards on for free air time constantly. Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #69

Yep, they roll them out on MSM, all in the cue and ready to go. An advertisement, RKP5637 Aug 2014 #71

Exactly. Louisiana1976 Aug 2014 #80

Notice how Cheney & co. Came out of the woodwork to insist we help ISIS in Syria? Now we know why. grahamhgreen Aug 2014 #74

Halliburton would like another helping of $$$$$. n/t RKP5637 Aug 2014 #76

Yep - Don't Expect The ChickenHawks To Acknowledge The Fact cantbeserious Aug 2014 #29

Spot on madokie Aug 2014 #36

Thanks Kentuck k&r n/t lordsummerisle Aug 2014 #38

While it is Bush's fault, Obama left a power vacuum when he pulled all the troops out... riseabove Aug 2014 #39

Troll much? Botany Aug 2014 #40

Ohhhh, power vacuum! We pulled out troops out in 2011. FSogol Aug 2014 #45

No he didnt leave any vacuum but the ones that were left in power handled in a hamfisted manner cstanleytech Aug 2014 #59

There is no foreseeable such time, this was automatic when way more than will admit it now TheKentuckian Aug 2014 #62

And who would pay for the endless occupation, do tell? grahamhgreen Aug 2014 #75

Jon Stewart got it right when he labeled it Cleita Aug 2014 #44

Amen Brother!!! Phlem Aug 2014 #47

Problem is we broke shit and now we either fix it or buy it.. Historic NY Aug 2014 #49

Bravo, kentuck, for telling it like it is indepat Aug 2014 #50

Killing people is never the answer... humbled_opinion Aug 2014 #51

Very well put! n/t cntrygrl Aug 2014 #53

Chicken hawks: old men who send young men and women off to fight in wars to protect their corporate kelliekat44 Aug 2014 #57

Yes, we knew. And no one of any account listened tavalon Aug 2014 #67

''Money trumps peace.'' -- George W Bush, White House press conference, 14 Feb 2007 Octafish Aug 2014 #79

AMEN. calimary Aug 2014 #89