General Discussion

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)

73. I read the articles and found both to be rather shrill.

Mon Apr 9, 2012, 01:37 PM

Apr 2012

We have a person who is being charged with breaking the law. A court will decide if they did or not. Some whistle-blowers are doing a good thing, some think they are, when they are not.

You claim the articles discuss "real issues" ... I'd disagree ... by my reading, the two articles are not "discussing" the situation at all, they are pushing a very specific agenda, and their style of doing so is rather transparent and disingenuous.

So why discuss the "real issues" when both articles have already told you what it is you are supposed to believe about the case? Given the level of hyperbole in those articles, its a wasted effort. Everyone who claims whistle-blower status is a saint, and if the government disagrees, its evil. Might as well try to get a pro-life fundy to support late term abortion.

Now ... as for my response. I periodically use that specific response intentionally.

As I said, the articles make it clear that there is nothing to debate. The administration is bad, the person charged with leaking classified information is good There is nothing to discuss.

So what is the point of the articles, and why are they posted here on DU?

Which brings us back to my subject line. Its not a taunt, its my interpretation of the intent of the articles.

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President Obama Indicts Sixth Whistleblower Under the Espionage Act [View all] Better Believe It Apr 2012 OP

Why do you think his admin is doing this? I would really love to know. nt Mojorabbit Apr 2012 #1

If we knew all of the dirty "war" secrets we'd be inclined to oppose military adventures abroad. Better Believe It Apr 2012 #5

Because they leaked classified information jeff47 Apr 2012 #6

They classify millions of documents that have nothing to do with the security of the nation. Better Believe It Apr 2012 #19

Go check the part between the parenthesis. jeff47 Apr 2012 #24

No, it's not hard to classify documents. fasttense Apr 2012 #36

You don't get to make up the reason jeff47 Apr 2012 #118

jeff47 dotymed Apr 2012 #42

You're giving a perfect example of "whistleblowers" who are wrong about what they're leaking. jeff47 Apr 2012 #113

Obviously you did not watch the video. dotymed Apr 2012 #202

Obviously, you didn't either. jeff47 Apr 2012 #206

How did I know who replied to my true post? dotymed Apr 2012 #222

Running around with an assault rifle in a war zone isn't dangerous? jeff47 Apr 2012 #223

Your argument assumes Plucketeer Apr 2012 #48

No, it doesn't. We're talking about a situation where a whistleblower wants to leak. (nt) jeff47 Apr 2012 #116

In your humble opinion...... cliffordu Apr 2012 #29

But we cannot tolerate such injustice and evil...EVER! CoffeeCat Apr 2012 #26

I don't think that information about possible crimes by members of our government JDPriestly Apr 2012 #32

well said. robinlynne Apr 2012 #84

Unfortunately, Torture was ruled legal. jeff47 Apr 2012 #119

It was? JonLP24 Apr 2012 #142

It became legal when it was declared "enhanced interrigaton techniques" jeff47 Apr 2012 #200

Here JonLP24 Apr 2012 #213

What people think the law should say isn't what the law says. jeff47 Apr 2012 #214

I posted the law JonLP24 Apr 2012 #215

Do you read your own links? jeff47 Apr 2012 #217

It is saying the rules of the Geneva Convention(Specifically Article 3) JonLP24 Apr 2012 #220

Torture isn't illegal? JDPriestly Apr 2012 #197

When "Enhanced interrogation techniques" were approved, and no successful challenge has been brought jeff47 Apr 2012 #201

That does not make them legal under international law. JDPriestly Apr 2012 #207

Yes, but international law is irrelevant in regards to the espionage act jeff47 Apr 2012 #218

Bullshit. Every word. saras Apr 2012 #35

No, you just hear about the whistleblowers jeff47 Apr 2012 #120

Drake didn't release classified information. Vattel Apr 2012 #56

Unfortunately, "enhanced interrogation" was rule legal, and nobody's successfully challenged that. jeff47 Apr 2012 #122

It was clearly criminal prior to the amendments made to the war crimes act. Vattel Apr 2012 #140

How was torture ruled legal? Are we still part of the civilized world which signed sabrina 1 Apr 2012 #162

"whistleblower"...such a cute metaphor didact Apr 2012 #69

so when international crimes are committed, one should be quiet and "obey the law"? robinlynne Apr 2012 #83

If one doesn't want to be prosecuted, yes. jeff47 Apr 2012 #123

Problem with the Espionage Act FightForChange Apr 2012 #93

Why do you think he stopped anything? jeff47 Apr 2012 #125

Too bad pardoning people doesn't poll better, eh? nt sudopod Apr 2012 #184

If this case is similar to the Bush Admin's case against Tom Drake, truedelphi Apr 2012 #107

But prosecuting whistleblowers under the Espionage IS unprecedented ... markpkessinger Apr 2012 #147

Bologna quakerboy Apr 2012 #216

When we pretend selective enforcement is OK jeff47 Apr 2012 #219

Don't need to pretend it exists quakerboy Apr 2012 #221

I think for two reasons. 1. They leaked classified information. And 2., the MIC RKP5637 Apr 2012 #12

Post removed Post removed Apr 2012 #15

They have no choice pscot Apr 2012 #18

To cover the butts of the gwb admin's war crimes. Dont call me Shirley Apr 2012 #106

Keep trying...nt SidDithers Apr 2012 #2

Keep spamming n/t brentspeak Apr 2012 #8

How do Canadians feel about the US torturning people? DisgustipatedinCA Apr 2012 #112

Here ProSense Apr 2012 #3

scooter libby? leftyohiolib Apr 2012 #4

Yeah, ProSense Apr 2012 #7

It would have been great if he'd cut loose with this in 2004. freshwest Apr 2012 #16

It served the GOP by releasing the information on 2007 how? TheKentuckian Apr 2012 #41

Are you saying ProSense Apr 2012 #46

Fear of retribution, perhaps? nt sudopod Apr 2012 #185

Title of thread refers to Obama's actions, not Bush. Held for political effect. Indicted now for freshwest Apr 2012 #55

Well said..... NYC_SKP Apr 2012 #132

But no one was indicted for outing Valerie Plame? Why not? JDPriestly Apr 2012 #33

The latter. jeff47 Apr 2012 #126

Where do you see something about being indicted for outing a CIA agent? JDPriestly Apr 2012 #34

What I see ProSense Apr 2012 #50

Maybe he couldn't find the courage, or maybe no one was willing to listen JDPriestly Apr 2012 #198

War criminals walk but whistleblowers stand trial?! Pretty fucked up. polichick Apr 2012 #9

10-4 marshall gaines Apr 2012 #57

President Obama is trying cases now?! FarLeftFist Apr 2012 #10

Naw, he's much too busy getting the Patriot Act repealed... think Apr 2012 #11

President Obama can direct the DOJ to not prosecute whistleblowers .... unless he's a weak and Better Believe It Apr 2012 #43

So you want this President to ask the DOJ to not do their job BklnDem75 Apr 2012 #51

I want the Obama administration to not charge whistleblowers with espionage! Better Believe It Apr 2012 #61

No, not at all. randome Apr 2012 #65

Are you the Amazing Kreskin? You know that is what he wants? Really? How do you explain Dragonfli Apr 2012 #76

Link? Bobbie Jo Apr 2012 #127

That's how I remember it, Dragonfli. All of a sudden we're not supposed to care sabrina 1 Apr 2012 #160

Well said... SidDithers Apr 2012 #103

So you can use english, just in a very limited way it would appear. At least it's a start. Dragonfli Apr 2012 #104

So do you favor charging whistleblowers with espionage? Please try to stay on topic. Thanks. Better Believe It Apr 2012 #108

So you DO want Obama to act like Bush BklnDem75 Apr 2012 #68

He seems to be pretty good at ignoring torture and the prosecution of torturers. Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2012 #80

Probably because it's not his job BklnDem75 Apr 2012 #88

All Presidents give direction to the DOJ. You didn't know that? Better Believe It Apr 2012 #111

That direction isn't to ignore lawbreakers BklnDem75 Apr 2012 #130

So you think Obama should concentrate DOJ resources on medical pot dispensaries and whistleblowers. Better Believe It Apr 2012 #134

Obama should let Holder do his job, like he's been appointed to do BklnDem75 Apr 2012 #168

I don't want him to and I really wish he wouldn't when it comes to civil liberties. Better Believe It Apr 2012 #109

Espionage isn't a civil liberty BklnDem75 Apr 2012 #131

But, when done by the CIA murdererers and torturers, it's protected by our government. Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2012 #151

Keep trying...nt SidDithers Apr 2012 #102

K & R AzDar Apr 2012 #13

Is waterboarding classified intormation? nt snappyturtle Apr 2012 #14

I certainly would prefer to vote for someone more progressive than Obama, but I am teddy51 Apr 2012 #17

You can vote for whomever you want--it won't change a thing CoffeeCat Apr 2012 #30

+1000 nt Mojorabbit Apr 2012 #63

The point, the lesson, & the problem, right there. nt dougolat Apr 2012 #187

Don't know -- the whole COUNTRY seems to be moving to the right lately. :( gateley Apr 2012 #137

I don't think it's the people who are moving right. The polls show that sabrina 1 Apr 2012 #190

Yeah, you're right on that. nt gateley Apr 2012 #194

K&R DeSwiss Apr 2012 #20

Going into Iraq Iliyah Apr 2012 #21

If only they went after war criminals with equal vigor. HooptieWagon Apr 2012 #22

k/r emilyg Apr 2012 #23

How many Wall Street bankers have been indicted? donheld Apr 2012 #25

Somehow this story will end up in the bullshit half truth folder like many other Obama uponit7771 Apr 2012 #27

What time is it? cliffordu Apr 2012 #28

Obama has us over a barrel. JDPriestly Apr 2012 #31

expect a mighty and angry populace to arise this summer who is sick of wars, corruption xiamiam Apr 2012 #52

Pure evil. girl gone mad Apr 2012 #37

I am amazed that people could get lathered up about something like this nolabels Apr 2012 #49

du rec. nt xchrom Apr 2012 #38

Obama bad Obama bad Obama bad. JoePhilly Apr 2012 #39

so sick of that ridiculous remark..on iggy for anyone who chooses that as their defense fyi..nt xiamiam Apr 2012 #53

Oh please no ... not iggy!!! JoePhilly Apr 2012 #64

I like the reactions blind partisans have, such as childlike taunting, LOL! just1voice Apr 2012 #59

OMFG!!! Partisans on a partisan website!!!... SidDithers Apr 2012 #67

You are a partisan? To what party do you belong, what state do you vote primary in? /nt Dragonfli Apr 2012 #77

... SidDithers Apr 2012 #78

.. Dragonfli Apr 2012 #79

I don't speak graphic, are you able to use English? Dragonfli Apr 2012 #81

He used to know only one word. Fuddnik Apr 2012 #110

Post removed Post removed Apr 2012 #115

Partisans of deception Hawkowl Apr 2012 #99

I read the articles and found both to be rather shrill. JoePhilly Apr 2012 #73

I'm putting you on Un-Ignore! randome Apr 2012 #74

Redemption!!! JoePhilly Apr 2012 #82

Well, between ProSense Apr 2012 #87

keep trying...w/t KG Apr 2012 #40

K&R (n/t) a2liberal Apr 2012 #44

So when is Obama going to indict Cheney? bahrbearian Apr 2012 #45

Presidents don't indict people, the Justice Department does Freddie Stubbs Apr 2012 #47

Right. Obama knows nothing about these prosecutions. If he did, he'd stop them! Better Believe It Apr 2012 #62

So, you are suggesting that the President should interfere with Justice Dept. prosecutions? Freddie Stubbs Apr 2012 #91

YES! EXACTLY! ALL Presidents indicate their priorities to the Justice Department. Better Believe It Apr 2012 #94

That's the irrefutable truth Mimosa Apr 2012 #192

And, poor, delicate, Obama has no say in his Justice Department. Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2012 #70

Sure he does, but interfering with a prosecution could be construed as Freddie Stubbs Apr 2012 #92

The Justice Department can reset its priorities and decide it doesn't have a firm "espionage" case Better Believe It Apr 2012 #95

By whom? The Republicans? The media? Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2012 #124

Would Obama be good if he did a Moscow Flash Mob dance? DevonRex Apr 2012 #54

I see red-baiting is alive and well. Nice. TBF Apr 2012 #90

Oh how silly. DevonRex Apr 2012 #114

I'm so glad to hear that because I thought you had a problem with BBI - TBF Apr 2012 #121

It's just a few, actually, the same few all the time. I am grateful to them because sabrina 1 Apr 2012 #191

Totally unsurprising stupidicus Apr 2012 #58

I completely agree Oilwellian Apr 2012 #129

Yes indeed! nt dougolat Apr 2012 #186

Bush and Cheney are still walking out there and lovuian Apr 2012 #60

Exposing torture is a crime..torturing or enabling torture isn't. Especially in campaign season. Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2012 #66

Exposing torture is a crime..torturing or enabling torture isn't. Especially in campaign season. druidity33 Apr 2012 #128

Post removed Post removed Apr 2012 #71

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Apr 2012 #72

+1 inna Apr 2012 #85

...this, plus the continued war on Legalized Marijuana Dispensaries are some of the more infuriating truebrit71 Apr 2012 #75

ACLU: In 2009 the Obama administration made 54 million decisions to classify government documents! Better Believe It Apr 2012 #86

The Good News ProSense Apr 2012 #100

It is because we have a system in place that clearly puts state secrets Rex Apr 2012 #89

It's no state secret that a few million Iraqis will NEVER forget us. nt patrice Apr 2012 #97

"... a rose by any other name ..." would still look like a rose. nt patrice Apr 2012 #96

So?...What are they going to do? bvar22 Apr 2012 #98

maybe the real story should be: the high crimes they didn't bother to even investigate G_j Apr 2012 #101

That's what GW and Jebby's visit was about to the WH Dont call me Shirley Apr 2012 #105

Whats wrong with everybody? rudycantfail Apr 2012 #117

There is a series of articles published daily by paid operatives trying to suppress the vote. NYC_SKP Apr 2012 #133

What's strange is some of those same paid operatives used to post anti-Bush articles.. Fumesucker Apr 2012 #136

That's Cunning!!! NYC_SKP Apr 2012 #138

Facts be damned. rudycantfail Apr 2012 #139

These articles: terrific distractions away from the real enemies. NYC_SKP Apr 2012 #141

So the progressive government whistleblowers are the enemy? Better Believe It Apr 2012 #146

Monsanto, Exxon, Consolidated Media, etc... NYC_SKP Apr 2012 #155

Yep, divide and conquer. joshcryer Apr 2012 #164

I am collecting a list of recently PPR'd posters. joshcryer Apr 2012 #143

Always interesting to see how "busy" they become closer to election time. NYC_SKP Apr 2012 #144

Do you think Homeland Security is drawing up the same list? Better Believe It Apr 2012 #148

Doubtful, HHS is against the left. joshcryer Apr 2012 #158

Kind of a non-sequiteur...??? cliffordu Apr 2012 #189

I have here in my hand a list Fumesucker Apr 2012 #154

Eh, merely protecting myself from false flag PYSOPS from the right. joshcryer Apr 2012 #159

Of course anyone who isn't deliriously happy with Obama is a right wing agitator. Fumesucker Apr 2012 #161

They've been PPR'd, they're obviously agitators. joshcryer Apr 2012 #163

I watched Hannah Bell get TSed.. Fumesucker Apr 2012 #165

Well, it's possible these posters are left wing agitators like that person... joshcryer Apr 2012 #167

Well, when you have nothing left here but pragmatic moderate centrists.. Fumesucker Apr 2012 #170

I have other more liberal sites to go to for that. joshcryer Apr 2012 #172

DU swings further to the right on nearly a daily basis.. Fumesucker Apr 2012 #174

I don't see that at all. joshcryer Apr 2012 #177

A quintessentially Republican idea straight from the Heritage Foundation.. Fumesucker Apr 2012 #180

Sort by replies. A lot of us post uncontroversial stuff that drops thanks to derision. joshcryer Apr 2012 #181

The ones I see doing the most damage to DU are those who constantly try to put a positive spin.. Fumesucker Apr 2012 #182

Those people are outnumbered though. joshcryer Apr 2012 #183

And yet you see a reason for attacking good DUers who don't march in lockstep brentspeak Apr 2012 #175

Who am I attacking? joshcryer Apr 2012 #176

"Agitators"...like Chris Hedges? brentspeak Apr 2012 #178

Nah, he just bought the line, probably due to ignorance. joshcryer Apr 2012 #179

Lord, I miss her Mimosa Apr 2012 #193

So you are claiming that my posted article is written by a paid Republican operative Better Believe It Apr 2012 #145

I think he/she meant that you were the paid operative.. SomethingFishy Apr 2012 #149

Expect a silent chorus of crickets..but more accusations of disloyalty for not toeing the party line Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2012 #150

sacrebleu! NYC_SKP Apr 2012 #153

What you just said is one of the reasons cliffordu Apr 2012 #188

I strongly disagree with your assertion that critics of the Administration are paid disruptors. Leopolds Ghost Apr 2012 #203

Oh, and the government agency my dad went up against Leopolds Ghost Apr 2012 #204

I hope you remain active here, you do much good work. (nt) NYC_SKP Apr 2012 #209

Still active, but I have Leopolds Ghost Apr 2012 #210

By this standard Richard Armitage and Robert Novak are whistleblowers. joshcryer Apr 2012 #135

Really? When were they opposed to torture? Better Believe It Apr 2012 #152

Really? ProSense Apr 2012 #156

"Why did he wait until 2007 to reveal this information? " girl gone mad Apr 2012 #199

I didn't know this guy was indicted for being opposed to torture. joshcryer Apr 2012 #157

For opposing it and helping to expose it with super secret documents! Throw the key away! Better Believe It Apr 2012 #166

If he is convicted and then his sentence isn't commuted... joshcryer Apr 2012 #169

How much hard labor time do you think this lefty liberal should get? Better Believe It Apr 2012 #171

John Kiriakou lied about how many times Zubaydah was waterboarded. He's no lefty. joshcryer Apr 2012 #173

So you believe he engaged in espionage on behalf of what nation or terrorist group? Better Believe It Apr 2012 #196

Bradley Manning unionworks Apr 2012 #195

Did Nash of CSNY write this song about Manning? Leopolds Ghost Apr 2012 #205

Co-wrote it with the other guy unionworks Apr 2012 #208

Good. mzmolly Apr 2012 #211

So much for transparency. BlueIris Apr 2012 #212