General Discussion

alp227

(33,268 posts)

133. Hmm...false dilemma there.

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 05:35 PM

Aug 2014

"women should be able to do what they want, rather than have patronizing moralists decide what's best for her."

So just because "patronizing moralists" object to porn automatically means women aren't "allowed" to do porn?

Ideas should be able to withstand scrutiny and criticism; anyone who's easily swayed by "patronizing moralists" probably was never committed, y'know to being immoral in the first place.

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Why does Belle Knox consider herself a feminist? [View all] Harmony Blue Aug 2014 OP

Because stupid people believe stupid things. graegoyle Aug 2014 #1

I consider myself Queen of Bakerfield. Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2014 #2

Yes, but I think you are the Queen of Bakerfield too, so that's different. Your majesty. Squinch Aug 2014 #37

omg ... I really did just LOL. Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2014 #40

. Squinch Aug 2014 #42

Of course it doesn't make it so... joeybee12 Aug 2014 #60

... lol ... Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2014 #61

And continue in that pose until I deem it proper to rise... joeybee12 Aug 2014 #63

Please note the lack of S in my Bakerfield. From one Monarch to another - Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2014 #64

Actually, I don't live there...I'm a monarch in abstentia! joeybee12 Aug 2014 #67

mea culpa ... lol Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2014 #70

Nice to meet you, your highness. hifiguy Aug 2014 #122

I'm not sure I agree with you 100% on your policework there, Lou. opiate69 Aug 2014 #3

Anyone can label themselves anything. So what? nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #4

I don't know. Ask her or at least read her writing. LeftyMom Aug 2014 #5

There's a thought. Squinch Aug 2014 #38

I've never heard Sasha Grey say porn ruined her life... Chan790 Aug 2014 #6

Yeah, OK, but did she have to join Peta? Sheeesh. Eleanors38 Aug 2014 #13

She's been distancing herself for business reasons. joshcryer Aug 2014 #15

Kinds of proves she is pretty smart. Atman Aug 2014 #39

Chelsea's wrong a couple of times even in her first paragraph. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2014 #77

Like most professions LittleBlue Aug 2014 #7

Yes! My god, the condescending attitude towards sex workers disgusts me freeplessinseattle Aug 2014 #8

Some of them don't accept the concept of choice LittleBlue Aug 2014 #9

This message was self-deleted by its author Squinch Aug 2014 #41

LOL ismnotwasm Aug 2014 #151

That's the problem with not actually reading people's arguments BainsBane Aug 2014 #12

Because maybe they think women are driven into it by the patriarchy? treestar Aug 2014 #66

How are they "driven" into a job that pays well and allows them to be their own boss? freeplessinseattle Aug 2014 #76

You've clearly ignored the points people have made BainsBane Aug 2014 #94

According to the woman herself, it pays pretty well... hughee99 Aug 2014 #137

It pays well and they are their own boss? treestar Aug 2014 #99

Maybe she feels that women should be able to choose their paths in life PersonNumber503602 Aug 2014 #10

Don't know, probably because of her ability to disassociate. seaglass Aug 2014 #11

These types don't give even a fraction of a shit. redqueen Aug 2014 #23

Just wanted to say thank you for posting this here. redqueen Aug 2014 #26

Disassociation = Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2014 #32

Oh look. Still no responses from the sex industry's valiant defenders. redqueen Aug 2014 #68

Wow! STILL nothing? redqueen Aug 2014 #79

Oh, probably just a bunch of people have me on ignore. I'm sure that's it. n/t seaglass Aug 2014 #81

If the RAH RAH PORN YAY dumbassery continues I might have to make it an OP. nt redqueen Aug 2014 #82

That is REALLY sad marions ghost Aug 2014 #91

Of course, a truly empowered woman must be ashamed of her sexuality and not consume porn. Kurska Aug 2014 #14

Link to where anyone here said anything like that, please. Squinch Aug 2014 #44

Oh it isn't phrased like that Kurska Aug 2014 #78

So you can't link to anywhere where anyone said anything like that. Thanks. Squinch Aug 2014 #85

Isn't like we're in a thread that questions if a woman can be a feminists who have a positive Kurska Aug 2014 #104

So, confirming, you can't link to any such statements. Squinch Aug 2014 #114

You want an example of someone dictating feminist's sexuality for them Kurska Aug 2014 #116

Uh-huh. So no link. Squinch Aug 2014 #117

Would I need to provide you a link to the flowers when you're in the garden? n/t Kurska Aug 2014 #119

Right. So there is no link to a post where anyone said anything like what you describe. Squinch Aug 2014 #120

Call outs, get hidden Kurska Aug 2014 #121

Got it. You can't provide a link to anyone saying anything like what you describe. Squinch Aug 2014 #134

Call outs get hidden Kurska Aug 2014 #135

So let's review the posts that say what you describe: Oh, right. There are none. Squinch Aug 2014 #136

This message was self-deleted by its author opiate69 Aug 2014 #129

Predatory Payday Lenders are fully consensual contracts between two adults. LanternWaste Aug 2014 #176

Yeah, cause reasonable restrictions on otherwise allowed activities (like maximum interest rate). Kurska Aug 2014 #182

Careful now... That much straw is a fire hazard... nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #102

she gets more attention that way n/t Scout Aug 2014 #16

Different people have different experiences gollygee Aug 2014 #17

That too. n/t nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #103

They don't live in a binary world where there are only two answers? Rex Aug 2014 #18

Different experiences cause different opinions Bettie Aug 2014 #19

Why do minors inevitably come up when there are discussions of pornography and prostitution here? DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2014 #20

I noticed that as well. I think the reason is simple: The Straight Story Aug 2014 #21

It seems they want to infantalize men and women DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2014 #22

See posts 24 and 48... alp227 Aug 2014 #93

Prostitution can't be separated from minors and sex trafficking gollygee Aug 2014 #24

Bill O'Reilly uses that same argument to oppose the legalization of marijuana DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2014 #25

Massive logic fail. redqueen Aug 2014 #27

their only hope is that false analogy TheSarcastinator Aug 2014 #28

The flailing desperation in their dozens of threads is palpable. redqueen Aug 2014 #31

So only popular activities should be legal ? DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2014 #35

Hope you don't wait around for an answer. Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #164

It's ironic when one's hypocrisy is pointed out DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2014 #168

Well, don't get me wrong- I think the prohibitionist/law enforcement approach to "drugs" Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #175

I am not in favor of the criminalization of drugs either. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2014 #178

Agreed on all points. Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #179

Your ad hominem is showing. (REDUX) DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2014 #29

and those laws have certainly solved the problem, right? TheSarcastinator Aug 2014 #33

I don't know how we went from discussing consensual sex to a murder spree... DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2014 #45

"Should be legal" =/= "is A-OK" necessarily. nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #105

This message was self-deleted by its author DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2014 #29

Prostitution is open and legal in Amsterdam Yavin4 Aug 2014 #34

Google gives this = Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2014 #43

I've read through a few of the links and I don't see any documented evidence or proof Yavin4 Aug 2014 #47

first link Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2014 #48

That article mentions a study from the ILO but that's misleading Yavin4 Aug 2014 #50

third link (and by the way. I am done with you and this) Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2014 #51

You still have not provided proof, just conjecture. I've found an actual study that contradicts you Yavin4 Aug 2014 #54

omg ... done. Done. DONE. so DONE. Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2014 #55

... opiate69 Aug 2014 #65

... Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2014 #72

because that is NOT the Discussion. Never has been. Legal, consenting, sound minded, ADULTS is NOT Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2014 #73

... Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2014 #74

Here BainsBane Aug 2014 #75

Popular Claims vs. Evidence-Based Conclusions in Human Trafficking Yavin4 Aug 2014 #83

YOu are working very hard here to believe in fairy tales. I bet you believe they are working Squinch Aug 2014 #84

in other words BainsBane Aug 2014 #86

No. I posted a link to an academic discussion which disputes your claims. Yavin4 Aug 2014 #89

There is admittedly some controversy (and uncertainty). nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #108

Are you being sarcastic? If not, this is pretty sad. Squinch Aug 2014 #46

He isn't and it is. Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2014 #49

I don't necessarily oppose legalization, mind you, but there is evidence (as noted downthread) nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #106

The "evidence" is in dispute, not clear cut. Yavin4 Aug 2014 #107

Even if it's only a possibility, isn't it worth thinking about/discussing? Considering the gravity nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #109

There's a possibility of increased addictions when you make marijuana legal Yavin4 Aug 2014 #111

I can agree with that, in general. nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #112

Prostitution is not buying/selling human bodies Yavin4 Aug 2014 #113

So how can one perform a sexual service without using their body? Rex Aug 2014 #124

Is a masseuse selling her body? Yavin4 Aug 2014 #126

Yes but we are talking about sex, that is what the sub-thread is about. Rex Aug 2014 #127

There are other professions where people "sell" their bodies Yavin4 Aug 2014 #128

Because they are not having sex for money. They are selling their talents. Rex Aug 2014 #130

If you are using your body in a performance, then it's not "selling" your body. Yavin4 Aug 2014 #131

Well it is a physical activity, no doubt. But it is not a sport. Rex Aug 2014 #132

Because minors are common in prostitution BainsBane Aug 2014 #53

I understand this DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2014 #57

And the ones who insistently pretend that these facts aren't related to these industries... redqueen Aug 2014 #69

Because it's an easier argument to win. jeff47 Aug 2014 #56

I can't think of lot of things that are more messed up than human trafficking... DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2014 #59

It's a way to invalidate the choices of adults LittleBlue Aug 2014 #58

Some feminists are doing what the GOP congress did in the late 1990s davidn3600 Aug 2014 #62

Because people can't or wont formulate arguments against consenting adult behavior Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #87

Are you asking if a feminist can only be anti-porn? Iron Man Aug 2014 #52

Because, whether you respect her decision or not... LostInAnomie Aug 2014 #71

According to my various women studies classes, ZombieHorde Aug 2014 #80

Because she can call herself whatever she wants. Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #88

I AM NOT MAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! opiate69 Aug 2014 #92

I marevel at your single-minded determination BainsBane Aug 2014 #95

Sort of like the single-minded determination to make arguments about consenting adults Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #96

Yr one of the few DUers I've seen touch on the root issue.... Violet_Crumble Aug 2014 #98

Thanks for linking to that interview VC, it was interesting. I don't know who Stoya is but she seaglass Aug 2014 #115

My daugter's a bit of a fan of Stoya... Violet_Crumble Aug 2014 #149

She knows she's privileged. And she doesn't pretend that porn is feminist because she chose it. redqueen Aug 2014 #156

Yes, because something may be personally empowering does not mean it's empowering for women seaglass Aug 2014 #166

You mean the irritating people who talk about prostitution as it really is? BainsBane Aug 2014 #100

"you mean...." you do realize, there, you did it again? Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #101

You don't have a position BainsBane Aug 2014 #139

And--- again. I'm gonna point it out because I think you may genuinely not realize you're doing it. Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #141

I didn't mention it because I don't think RQ can hold her own BainsBane Aug 2014 #142

Again, talking past each other, I'll only make three points and make them brief: Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #143

Your use of quotation marks around "feminists" was quite clear BainsBane Aug 2014 #144

I've told you at least 7 or 8 times that you keep putting words in other people's mouths Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #147

Your words BainsBane Aug 2014 #150

And if the quotes meant what you are asserting they mean, then I'm calling the people who disagree Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #155

I'm a feminist and I don't agree with you at all... Violet_Crumble Aug 2014 #145

Did I say you had to agree with me? BainsBane Aug 2014 #146

Last time I checked this is a discussion forum where people disagree all the time... Violet_Crumble Aug 2014 #148

The reactions of you and 2nd wavers to folks like Violet and LadyHawkAZ are interesting, stevenleser Aug 2014 #152

Bullshit BainsBane Aug 2014 #153

Your link YET AGAIN confirms my point. In fact, you only addressed one of my 5 main points. stevenleser Aug 2014 #154

Why do you think that matters? redqueen Aug 2014 #157

Why do I think being trafficked to country B is probably just as bad as country A? stevenleser Aug 2014 #158

No, I didn't ask you if it was just as bad. redqueen Aug 2014 #159

No, what you are proposing does not do that. It does not limit the markets. stevenleser Aug 2014 #160

One would imagine people are heading to CO and WA to buy pot right now, too. Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #162

How could I possibly give a response that is not gender-biased? BainsBane Aug 2014 #181

That is an interesting dodge so let me give you an answer you cannot dodge. stevenleser Aug 2014 #184

There's no way to prove a negative mythology Aug 2014 #189

Thats not the issue. The issue is exceeding the boundaries of a studies results. stevenleser Aug 2014 #191

A few points... Violet_Crumble Aug 2014 #165

Since you know prostitution is a local issue BainsBane Aug 2014 #180

There's a few flaws in what you posted... Violet_Crumble Aug 2014 #183

Well said. Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #161

And, TBH, it *CAN* be empowering.....in the right circumstances. AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #90

I share your ambivalence, to a large extent. And I don't pretend to have definitive answers. nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #110

My buddy eschews internet debates and discussions DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2014 #97

And then there are the posters who completely distort the viewpoint of others kcr Aug 2014 #118

+1 nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #138

So when Icelandic pols actually did call for a ban & some people here went nuts in celebration Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #163

At some point in time, in a country far, far away, a ban was proposed. redqueen Aug 2014 #169

Yes, far in the mists of time, like last year or so. Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #193

Know what the best thing about talking to one's own self is? Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #194

it can be summed up in the old acronym hifiguy Aug 2014 #123

Maybe she gets to be a feminist because... brooklynite Aug 2014 #125

Hmm...false dilemma there. alp227 Aug 2014 #133

The dogma of Choice Feminism says any choice a woman makes MUST NOT BE CRITICIZED redqueen Aug 2014 #170

Here is Sasha Grey commenting on the Belle Knox empowerment jakeXT Aug 2014 #140

"even though women wield more power in porn and are paid more," redqueen Aug 2014 #171

I wonder how the industry is surviving at the moment and competing against free jakeXT Aug 2014 #173

The idea that female porn performers make the most money in the industry is bullshit. redqueen Aug 2014 #174

All people are creatures of their society. And Western society has become pornographied. WinkyDink Aug 2014 #167

Belle Knox was beaten and spat on in her first job as a porn 'star'. redqueen Aug 2014 #172

Did I say anything about a dress code? I said what disparate cultures want of females. The West pays WinkyDink Aug 2014 #185

No, what's surprising is that anyone continues to try to flog that ridiculous false equivalence. Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #186

Because pornography has little to do with feminism Android3.14 Aug 2014 #177

but what about people who get off on telling other people what not to get off on? Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #187

People tolerate that kink just fine Android3.14 Aug 2014 #188

Like when Rick Santorum tried to get me into wool sweater vests. Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #190

Exactly! Android3.14 Aug 2014 #192