General Discussion

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)

162. Don't give me that, that is a copout. It's not hard. When we talk about hate groups like

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 11:37 AM

Aug 2014

MRA or KKK or NeoNazis/Stormfront, we're not talking random insensitive statements.

As I posted in #123, MRA talking points are beyond an insensitive comment or moderately sexist. They are vile and ugly through and through.

To use anti-semitism as an example, I think that various posts regarding the whole Gaza issue were moderately antisemitic. But they do not qualify the posters as NeoNazis and would not excuse people of accusing posters of those statements to be NeoNazi talking points. NeoNazi talking points are very different.

I accused a poster the other day of making a sexist comment when he made a negative statement about Hillary involving "pantsuits". That was as far as I am concerned, an obviously sexist comment. That doesn't make it an MRA talking point and it wasn't an MRA talking point.

Accusations of fellow DUers being in hate groups is not something that should be carelessly thrown around.

You mentioned galileoreloaded. I would like to see that persons individual posts. I will bet they were in fact sexist. That person may in fact be somewhat misogynistic. That does not make him an MRA and it does not necessarily follow AT ALL that the person was spouting MRA talking points.

On Edit: Take a look once again at my #123. Look at what REAL MRA talking points are. Then show me posts here on DU that resemble those.

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Highlight:

The Blue Devil in Miss Belle Knox: Meet Duke Porn Star Miriam Weeks [View all] redqueen Aug 2014 OP

Another porn thread about this woman? nt msanthrope Aug 2014 #1

Well spotted! redqueen Aug 2014 #2

Seriously, redqueen....this particular excerpt msanthrope Aug 2014 #8

As a feminist, I'm tired of the widespread abuse, assault, and rape in porn being ignored, redqueen Aug 2014 #11

No...this is a story about an overprivileged, white, Libertarian twit msanthrope Aug 2014 #15

It is a story of a woman who was beaten and spat on at a job. And it was filmed redqueen Aug 2014 #17

"It is a story of a woman who was beaten and spat on at a job." Yet, she stayed in the profession. Yavin4 Aug 2014 #51

Yes, it is misogynistic to criticize an industry in which women are beaten and spat on redqueen Aug 2014 #54

Do you understand fetishes? Yavin4 Aug 2014 #55

Do you understand the word 'no'? redqueen Aug 2014 #57

So your issue is with workplace safety? Ms. Knox isn't complaining to OSHA, and msanthrope Aug 2014 #66

I wonder how she would feel about RQ's characterization of her statements? stevenleser Aug 2014 #71

Why don't you find out why all those other ex porn performers say it about their statements? redqueen Aug 2014 #73

For starters, each interview takes a lot of work just to set up. But, we'll see. stevenleser Aug 2014 #76

My opinion is by far the minority opinion. You would rather interview the pro-industry woman redqueen Aug 2014 #77

Did you even read what I wrote? nt stevenleser Aug 2014 #78

Of course. Have fun backing the multi-billion dollar industry by focusing on its supporters. redqueen Aug 2014 #80

I encourage everyone to read my post #76 and then RQ's responses. nt stevenleser Aug 2014 #81

Why aren't you taking Steve up on his offer? nt msanthrope Aug 2014 #84

He tried to get me PPRd for saying that people were posting MRA talking points on DU. redqueen Aug 2014 #86

Cite? nt msanthrope Aug 2014 #89

It was in Meta, which is gone. I'm sure I'm not the only one who remembers. nt redqueen Aug 2014 #92

He's right--serious accusations against DUers without proof should be PPR worthy. nt msanthrope Aug 2014 #96

You need proof that MRA talking points are posted here? redqueen Aug 2014 #101

Yes. I do it all the time when someone posts a RW meme....if you accuse someone, cite msanthrope Aug 2014 #108

Exactly. Just like accusing someone of using KKK or Nazi/stormfront talking points. stevenleser Aug 2014 #111

Post removed Post removed Aug 2014 #114

Sadly, her prodigious posting history suggests she indeed does believe that... opiate69 Aug 2014 #112

Oh she doesn't have to cite, I think willy-nilly accusations of DUers being in hate groups without stevenleser Aug 2014 #93

Did you also contact the admins about your opinion that I should be PPRd for saying redqueen Aug 2014 #97

Several times, not mentioning you specifically. nt stevenleser Aug 2014 #104

And are you still confused at all about whether those kinds of talking points are posted here? nt redqueen Aug 2014 #107

Not confused. It's rare. But your accusations of people using them is not rare. nt stevenleser Aug 2014 #110

It's rare now. redqueen Aug 2014 #115

It has always been rare to have MRA talking points here. Here are MRA Talking points stevenleser Aug 2014 #123

What do you want a membership card Steven? Do you think you know more than women who are the seaglass Aug 2014 #161

Don't give me that, that is a copout. It's not hard. When we talk about hate groups like stevenleser Aug 2014 #162

How interesting, you dismiss what I say with zero evidence. You had the tools at your fingertips, seaglass Aug 2014 #163

If he is your source that you are citing, you provide the link. Lets see it. nt stevenleser Aug 2014 #164

Half an hour later and you still couldn't provide links. I scanned some of his posts. No, he stevenleser Aug 2014 #166

Definitely....maybe you should have redqueen on your show with Ms. Knox. Or she can certainly call msanthrope Aug 2014 #82

See my #76 above. RQ seems to want to namecall and criticize rather than do any work at all. stevenleser Aug 2014 #83

Unsurprising. nt msanthrope Aug 2014 #87

And now check out the excuse she is trying to use. But she could accuse me of not wanting to stevenleser Aug 2014 #91

I think there's a bit of a double standard here. nt msanthrope Aug 2014 #94

We should never feel sorry for anyone compelled into a decision via the righteous... LanternWaste Aug 2014 #75

Economic coercion? Yes--she had no choice but to do porn in order to pay for Duke. No other msanthrope Aug 2014 #79

Most women in porn aren't doing it to pay for Ivy League educations. But you know that. nt redqueen Aug 2014 #116

We are talking about Ms. Knox. Not other women in porn. I mean, if you wanted to talk about msanthrope Aug 2014 #118

You mean like pretty much everything I wrote after the excerpt? redqueen Aug 2014 #119

You mean where you write about Ms. Knox and waitressing? nt msanthrope Aug 2014 #121

Methinks... deaniac21 Aug 2014 #129

You will get those responses, but this is a good OP. Even that .00001% of the girls who are Squinch Aug 2014 #3

And you have seen how many women who worked in porn have shared examples redqueen Aug 2014 #5

This message was self-deleted by its author rbrnmw Aug 2014 #4

I consider widespread workplace abuse - including assault and rape - to be a political issue. redqueen Aug 2014 #7

Eh whatever. Calista241 Aug 2014 #6

You just did. nt RiffRandell Aug 2014 #138

Just because I don't approve or disapprove doesn't mean she won't face societal consequences. Calista241 Aug 2014 #149

How do you know? Yavin4 Aug 2014 #9

Because she isn't the only one who has exposed the way this industry operates. redqueen Aug 2014 #10

Let me get this straight... Yavin4 Aug 2014 #30

Not at all. Maybe you should read my comments in the OP again. nt redqueen Aug 2014 #31

How does she know? opiate69 Aug 2014 #13

This message was self-deleted by its author historylovr Aug 2014 #37

What's up with the cutting? joeybee12 Aug 2014 #12

If her measurements are honest - at 5'4", 95 pounds, she has a BMI hedgehog Aug 2014 #14

Yeesh, and she probably looks all those 95 pounds in the mirror joeybee12 Aug 2014 #16

If not porn, what would you suggest to fuel wank sessions? LittleBlue Aug 2014 #18

There is erotica in which oppression and dehumanization is not sexualized. redqueen Aug 2014 #19

That is still porn LittleBlue Aug 2014 #20

Dude, go find someone else to play this game. redqueen Aug 2014 #21

Then forget I said anything about violence LittleBlue Aug 2014 #24

Thank you, thank you, thank you for pointing this out!! n/t freeplessinseattle Aug 2014 #43

So porn is not okay but erotica is? Can you point to some acceptable erotica? msanthrope Aug 2014 #147

I'm just going to keep wanking it. conservaphobe Aug 2014 #27

oh my god Scout Aug 2014 #42

Oh, they were LittleBlue Aug 2014 #99

People used to have pointless arguments before the internet, too. Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #143

Thank god Dorian Gray Aug 2014 #157

So your suggested solution to the "porn problem" is "stop looking at dirty pictures"? Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #141

I find your dismissal of her lived experience disturbing and inconsistent with feminist scholarship. LeftyMom Aug 2014 #22

Except I didn't say other jobs were 100% not degrading and harassment-free, did I? nt redqueen Aug 2014 #25

She's done both. She's comparing the two. She's qualified to do that. LeftyMom Aug 2014 #28

No, this is not based on papers I've read. redqueen Aug 2014 #34

You also get, in many of the documentaries... Blue_Adept Aug 2014 #88

Jenna Jameson has plenty of bad things to say about the industry redqueen Aug 2014 #95

Where did I dismiss an opinion? Blue_Adept Aug 2014 #98

Here. redqueen Aug 2014 #100

I think you inferred that then. Because that's not what I said at all. Blue_Adept Aug 2014 #102

What is the point of mentioning their religion? redqueen Aug 2014 #103

I witnessed a legal secretary be called the C-word in an office full of people by a partner Yavin4 Aug 2014 #32

Post removed Post removed Aug 2014 #23

Many people are. But just like many other types of addicts, they are in denial. redqueen Aug 2014 #26

addiction sucks ass, I hate to admit it finally, but I'm addicted to twerking, can there be help? snooper2 Aug 2014 #29

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Aug 2014 #33

When she says "no", and they keep going, what do you call that? nt redqueen Aug 2014 #35

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Aug 2014 #36

That's not what happened. They outnumbered her. redqueen Aug 2014 #38

The word abuse is in their title The2ndWheel Aug 2014 #47

I fucking knew it. redqueen Aug 2014 #50

That's what she could've said to "Facial Abuse" before ever going there The2ndWheel Aug 2014 #63

So you think women in porn agree to have their objections ignored? nt redqueen Aug 2014 #69

If they go to a company called Facial Abuse, probably The2ndWheel Aug 2014 #85

IYO, women in porn "probably" agree to have their objections ignored. Got it. nt redqueen Aug 2014 #90

You clearly know I didn't say that The2ndWheel Aug 2014 #105

So only the women in certain fetish porn should expect to have their objections igored? nt redqueen Aug 2014 #106

So why should such companies exist in the first place? alp227 Aug 2014 #137

good questions ... and ... Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2014 #165

"A woman is free to make her own choices and do whatever she wants with her body... LostInAnomie Aug 2014 #39

Do me a favor and quote where I said she isn't free to do it. redqueen Aug 2014 #40

To be fair, it's brighter than cherry picking an article for inflammatory quotes. LostInAnomie Aug 2014 #70

No, I didn't imply that. You inferred it because it is preferable to acknowedging her assault. redqueen Aug 2014 #74

Uhhh... no. You literally said that her feeling less exploited... LostInAnomie Aug 2014 #130

The problem is, how many women who get into porn make well-informed decisions? alp227 Aug 2014 #59

Let me ask you a question, in your opinion, is it possible for a woman to ever be well-informed... LostInAnomie Aug 2014 #68

What does it matter if they were coerced in the first place? kcr Aug 2014 #113

A few here have implied or said outright that she had no right to expect redqueen Aug 2014 #117

It's unbelievable kcr Aug 2014 #120

If only it were. People's priorities are so revealing, aren't they? nt redqueen Aug 2014 #125

Because, that is not what I asked LostInAnomie Aug 2014 #128

And the question doesn't matter. kcr Aug 2014 #139

The question does matter. I absolutely speaks to the agency of all women... LostInAnomie Aug 2014 #146

Agency does not mean freedom from criticism of whatever thing a person chooses to participate in kcr Aug 2014 #150

Sweat shops are explicitly coercive. Black market organ trafficking is illegal. Porn is neither. LostInAnomie Aug 2014 #151

So you can't criticize things that are legal? kcr Aug 2014 #152

Sad. It is a simple question with a simple answer. LostInAnomie Aug 2014 #155

And I'll answer your question again kcr Aug 2014 #160

unfortunately there's mostly coercion to get into porn alp227 Aug 2014 #136

Again, that is not what I asked. Can a woman make a well-informed decision... LostInAnomie Aug 2014 #145

OK, I should've provided a straight answer. I'd say yes, alp227 Aug 2014 #148

Good. LostInAnomie Aug 2014 #153

You left out the portion of the article where she was flown to L.A. Yavin4 Aug 2014 #41

RTFOP redqueen Aug 2014 #44

As An African American, I see other African Americans do things that I don't like, but... Yavin4 Aug 2014 #48

You must be actively working to miss the point. nt redqueen Aug 2014 #52

And yet your other thread calls for criminalizing a similar sex trade because of misogyny, LadyHawkAZ Aug 2014 #45

No, not criminalizing a similar "sex trade", criminalizing the buying of sex. redqueen Aug 2014 #46

So why not criminalize the buying of porn? LadyHawkAZ Aug 2014 #64

"untrue and delusional" - nice spin redqueen Aug 2014 #67

I didn't figure you'd be able to answer those questions LadyHawkAZ Aug 2014 #144

There are a lot of those sorts of questions, that never seem to get answered. Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #167

Thanks for the op redqueen. NCTraveler Aug 2014 #49

My pleasure. I was serious about making this issue clear, whether people want to address it or not. redqueen Aug 2014 #56

Belle Knox's choices, as per the article Yavin4 Aug 2014 #53

You need to re-read the thread. You are still making straw man arguments redqueen Aug 2014 #58

Then what is your point exactly? n/t Yavin4 Aug 2014 #65

Still waiting for the citation for your claim nt redqueen Aug 2014 #109

Unless i'm wrong, she did all this to pay for her college bills. alp227 Aug 2014 #60

You're wrong. She's made enough to pay for college. Yavin4 Aug 2014 #61

Citation please. redqueen Aug 2014 #62

That's an excellent article. Laelth Aug 2014 #142

You can't be serious. LostInAnomie Aug 2014 #72

so i can understand her opinion if she felt she had bad experience as waitress. alp227 Aug 2014 #124

If I could make money in porn, then I would quit my job tomorrow. Yavin4 Aug 2014 #126

So everyone who isn't independently wealthy is a hostage? jeff47 Aug 2014 #122

...and she's being held hostage if she gets a job at the College Bookstore? brooklynite Aug 2014 #127

for the most part, college bookstores don't mistreat workers as much as the porn industry. nt alp227 Aug 2014 #131

I think you missed the part where it was stipulated that she has no right to object to this abuse. redqueen Aug 2014 #132

Wai-wai-wai-wait. What the heck did I miss? nt alp227 Aug 2014 #133

Notice how no other pro-industry posters have shit to say about it, either. redqueen Aug 2014 #134

She could have went to a state college at a fraction of the cost. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2014 #159

People make decisions every day that are either positive or negative. dilby Aug 2014 #135

"precious wank sessions" Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #140

Why doesn't she just leave the industry? DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2014 #154

2nd to last paragraph in the article... LostInAnomie Aug 2014 #156

I would think that would settle it./nt DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2014 #158

That part, like, totally doesn't count. Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #168