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In reply to the discussion: Why does Belle Knox consider herself a feminist? [View all]jakeXT
(10,575 posts)140. Here is Sasha Grey commenting on the Belle Knox empowerment
The backlash to the Duke porn star strikes me as more than a little absurd. One of the worst op-eds Ive read on the subject was in Time, and the writer criticized her claims of empowerment, writing, In most adult films, women are depicted as objects who are there to please the man in whatever way he might choose.
Its ridiculous. I didnt read her whole essayjust blips onlinebut I read a quote where she said, I wanted to prove how ridiculous this could be, which is interesting, and Im fascinated by that. But do I think that this discredits her? Absolutely not. People said the same thing to me. They said, If youre so smart, why did you do porn? Youre not a feminist. I never declared myself a feminist. I believe in the empowerment of women and men everywhere. But to say that porn only depicts what men want? One of the reasons I did porn was because I had things I wanted to experience and try and do, but I was so ashamed of them, and in doing porn I realized, There are women like me, and why should women be portrayed as a victim? Why cant we take control? And if youre putting yourself in that position, thats your choice.
Right. The counterargument proposed by that misguided Time author is that, even though women wield more power in porn and are paid more, and are the ones who achieve star status over men, porn tastesand the contentis governed by the taste of men.
But you can say that about anything! The male gaze. You can say that about romantic comedies. You can say, Women are naïve to think that its a mans role to give the woman a perfect house and two kids. That offends me as a woman. I think romantic comedies are anti-feminist. That kind of shit offends me. I was raised to believe in myself, take care of myself, and not let other people take care of me. Traditional marriages are fine, but there are a lot of other people out there who feel differently. So, to say that porn only satisfies male tastes is ridiculous. I went to Russia and Siberia and other fucked up places and Ive met tons of women who have told me, Youve changed my life. Not all women are alike.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/12/sasha-grey-on-her-secret-true-detective-cameo-open-windows-and-the-duke-porn-star-backlash.html
Its ridiculous. I didnt read her whole essayjust blips onlinebut I read a quote where she said, I wanted to prove how ridiculous this could be, which is interesting, and Im fascinated by that. But do I think that this discredits her? Absolutely not. People said the same thing to me. They said, If youre so smart, why did you do porn? Youre not a feminist. I never declared myself a feminist. I believe in the empowerment of women and men everywhere. But to say that porn only depicts what men want? One of the reasons I did porn was because I had things I wanted to experience and try and do, but I was so ashamed of them, and in doing porn I realized, There are women like me, and why should women be portrayed as a victim? Why cant we take control? And if youre putting yourself in that position, thats your choice.
Right. The counterargument proposed by that misguided Time author is that, even though women wield more power in porn and are paid more, and are the ones who achieve star status over men, porn tastesand the contentis governed by the taste of men.
But you can say that about anything! The male gaze. You can say that about romantic comedies. You can say, Women are naïve to think that its a mans role to give the woman a perfect house and two kids. That offends me as a woman. I think romantic comedies are anti-feminist. That kind of shit offends me. I was raised to believe in myself, take care of myself, and not let other people take care of me. Traditional marriages are fine, but there are a lot of other people out there who feel differently. So, to say that porn only satisfies male tastes is ridiculous. I went to Russia and Siberia and other fucked up places and Ive met tons of women who have told me, Youve changed my life. Not all women are alike.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/12/sasha-grey-on-her-secret-true-detective-cameo-open-windows-and-the-duke-porn-star-backlash.html
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Yes, but I think you are the Queen of Bakerfield too, so that's different. Your majesty.
Squinch
Aug 2014
#37
Please note the lack of S in my Bakerfield. From one Monarch to another -
Tuesday Afternoon
Aug 2014
#64
Yes! My god, the condescending attitude towards sex workers disgusts me
freeplessinseattle
Aug 2014
#8
How are they "driven" into a job that pays well and allows them to be their own boss?
freeplessinseattle
Aug 2014
#76
Maybe she feels that women should be able to choose their paths in life
PersonNumber503602
Aug 2014
#10
Oh, probably just a bunch of people have me on ignore. I'm sure that's it. n/t
seaglass
Aug 2014
#81
If the RAH RAH PORN YAY dumbassery continues I might have to make it an OP. nt
redqueen
Aug 2014
#82
Of course, a truly empowered woman must be ashamed of her sexuality and not consume porn.
Kurska
Aug 2014
#14
Isn't like we're in a thread that questions if a woman can be a feminists who have a positive
Kurska
Aug 2014
#104
Would I need to provide you a link to the flowers when you're in the garden? n/t
Kurska
Aug 2014
#119
Right. So there is no link to a post where anyone said anything like what you describe.
Squinch
Aug 2014
#120
Got it. You can't provide a link to anyone saying anything like what you describe.
Squinch
Aug 2014
#134
So let's review the posts that say what you describe: Oh, right. There are none.
Squinch
Aug 2014
#136
Predatory Payday Lenders are fully consensual contracts between two adults.
LanternWaste
Aug 2014
#176
Yeah, cause reasonable restrictions on otherwise allowed activities (like maximum interest rate).
Kurska
Aug 2014
#182
Why do minors inevitably come up when there are discussions of pornography and prostitution here?
DemocratSinceBirth
Aug 2014
#20
Bill O'Reilly uses that same argument to oppose the legalization of marijuana
DemocratSinceBirth
Aug 2014
#25
Well, don't get me wrong- I think the prohibitionist/law enforcement approach to "drugs"
Warren DeMontague
Aug 2014
#175
I don't know how we went from discussing consensual sex to a murder spree...
DemocratSinceBirth
Aug 2014
#45
I've read through a few of the links and I don't see any documented evidence or proof
Yavin4
Aug 2014
#47
You still have not provided proof, just conjecture. I've found an actual study that contradicts you
Yavin4
Aug 2014
#54
because that is NOT the Discussion. Never has been. Legal, consenting, sound minded, ADULTS is NOT
Tuesday Afternoon
Aug 2014
#73
YOu are working very hard here to believe in fairy tales. I bet you believe they are working
Squinch
Aug 2014
#84
I don't necessarily oppose legalization, mind you, but there is evidence (as noted downthread)
nomorenomore08
Aug 2014
#106
Even if it's only a possibility, isn't it worth thinking about/discussing? Considering the gravity
nomorenomore08
Aug 2014
#109
If you are using your body in a performance, then it's not "selling" your body.
Yavin4
Aug 2014
#131
And the ones who insistently pretend that these facts aren't related to these industries...
redqueen
Aug 2014
#69
I can't think of lot of things that are more messed up than human trafficking...
DemocratSinceBirth
Aug 2014
#59
Because people can't or wont formulate arguments against consenting adult behavior
Warren DeMontague
Aug 2014
#87
Sort of like the single-minded determination to make arguments about consenting adults
Warren DeMontague
Aug 2014
#96
Thanks for linking to that interview VC, it was interesting. I don't know who Stoya is but she
seaglass
Aug 2014
#115
She knows she's privileged. And she doesn't pretend that porn is feminist because she chose it.
redqueen
Aug 2014
#156
Yes, because something may be personally empowering does not mean it's empowering for women
seaglass
Aug 2014
#166
And--- again. I'm gonna point it out because I think you may genuinely not realize you're doing it.
Warren DeMontague
Aug 2014
#141
Again, talking past each other, I'll only make three points and make them brief:
Warren DeMontague
Aug 2014
#143
I've told you at least 7 or 8 times that you keep putting words in other people's mouths
Warren DeMontague
Aug 2014
#147
And if the quotes meant what you are asserting they mean, then I'm calling the people who disagree
Warren DeMontague
Aug 2014
#155
Last time I checked this is a discussion forum where people disagree all the time...
Violet_Crumble
Aug 2014
#148
The reactions of you and 2nd wavers to folks like Violet and LadyHawkAZ are interesting,
stevenleser
Aug 2014
#152
Your link YET AGAIN confirms my point. In fact, you only addressed one of my 5 main points.
stevenleser
Aug 2014
#154
Why do I think being trafficked to country B is probably just as bad as country A?
stevenleser
Aug 2014
#158
No, what you are proposing does not do that. It does not limit the markets.
stevenleser
Aug 2014
#160
One would imagine people are heading to CO and WA to buy pot right now, too.
Warren DeMontague
Aug 2014
#162
That is an interesting dodge so let me give you an answer you cannot dodge.
stevenleser
Aug 2014
#184
Thats not the issue. The issue is exceeding the boundaries of a studies results.
stevenleser
Aug 2014
#191
I share your ambivalence, to a large extent. And I don't pretend to have definitive answers.
nomorenomore08
Aug 2014
#110
So when Icelandic pols actually did call for a ban & some people here went nuts in celebration
Warren DeMontague
Aug 2014
#163
The dogma of Choice Feminism says any choice a woman makes MUST NOT BE CRITICIZED
redqueen
Aug 2014
#170
I wonder how the industry is surviving at the moment and competing against free
jakeXT
Aug 2014
#173
The idea that female porn performers make the most money in the industry is bullshit.
redqueen
Aug 2014
#174
All people are creatures of their society. And Western society has become pornographied.
WinkyDink
Aug 2014
#167
Did I say anything about a dress code? I said what disparate cultures want of females. The West pays
WinkyDink
Aug 2014
#185
No, what's surprising is that anyone continues to try to flog that ridiculous false equivalence.
Warren DeMontague
Aug 2014
#186
but what about people who get off on telling other people what not to get off on?
Warren DeMontague
Aug 2014
#187