Why does Belle Knox consider herself a feminist?

[Warren DeMontague]

141. And--- again. I'm gonna point it out because I think you may genuinely not realize you're doing it.

You don't have a position other than mocking feminists. Understood.

That.... might have worked, if you left out the "understood". But by including it, you sealed the deal. In that, what you did was, you ascribed something to me via your own words, and then offered your assent to the thing which you yourself asserted as my position.

But again, that's something I never said. As for "mocking feminists", okay:

1) ....if my disagreeing and expressing my disagreement counts as "mocking", or my examining shoddy logic and debate tactics counts as "mocking". In that case, people mock disagreeing positions all the time here on DU, including you. I, for one, try awfully hard not to take, or make, it personal. DU would be a better place if more people were like me, oh yes indeed I think it would, and humbler too.

2) "Feminists". No, just people advancing certain points of view, who also happen to call themselves "Feminists" but by no means speak for all people who call themselves "Feminists" nor do those points of view represent the totality of "Feminist thought" on the matter. Furthermore, even "mocking" the points of view expressed is not the same thing as mocking Feminism or Feminists-in-general or even the specific people in question, see above.

you consistently refuse to deal with arguments women actually make and instead ridicule anyone who dares question your fantasy version of the sex trade.

There's not an argument, here, there's two people talking past each other. That's not an argument, even.

You do see commodification of sex as sacrosanct, as demonstrated by your adamant support for all things related to its commerce--SI and the industry of objectification, porn, and prostitution. Many here have decided anything relating to sex must never under any circumstances be questioned. Any discussion of the absence of consent, underage sex workers, child rape, or human trafficking is immediately dismissed for the absurd trope of "consenting adults."

Okay, that's a hot mess. Sports Illustrated is mostly a sports magazine. I've already said all I want to on objectification, although if someone has a more solid scientific study than the one that used upside down people in bathing suits, I'm all ears. I've also said my piece on porn versus prostitution (which I've never "supported", adamantly or otherwise) in that it appears to me that the legal and regulated status of one DOES address the question of non-adults AND non-consent, at least insofar as regulations require documentation pertaining to both, as opposed to the illegal, and unregulated, status of prostitution. The only person dismissing and pursuing absurd tropes is you, because the question of consenting adults just seems to make you mad, as if it is inconceivable, princess bride-fashion, that ANY adult could ever, under any circumstances, consent to something like taking their clothes off in front of a camera so other people could look at it.

I didn't "dismiss" those other things, in fact I addressed them by saying that a legal framework for porn in the US provides a regulatory structure within which one can ensure consent and adulthood. That doesn't mean "I think prostitution should be legal", but like I said, it's already illegal, and everyone seems to agree that whatever is being done now doesn't work as well as it ought to. How that means that I'm 'dismissing' those other things by reiterating that I think consenting adults should be free to make their own decisions about their own bodies, I don't understand. What you seem to want, here, is for anyone who says the irritating words "consenting adults" to immediately stop upon hearing the words "non-consent" and "non-adults" and go "oh, that shit about consenting adults? Forget it, what was I thinking?"


If people didn't distinguish between consent and non-consent, or adults and non-adults, they wouldn't use phrases like consenting adults.

You ignore reality and think call people irritating who care about the reality of prostitution as opposed to the theoretical notion you hold in your head. If it were just about consenting adults there would be far less concern. I know it isn't because I was at a very young age regularly targeted by Johns, as was my sister. The creepy comment by the other poster PROVES it is not just about consenting adults. Insisting otherwise is to ignore evidence--evidence I have already linked to for you multiple times.

What happened to you sucks, FWIW I am sorry you went through that- and I support vigorous law enforcement and prosecution of anyone who would, I guess proposition is probably too kind a word, children. Again, I never said I thought prostitution "should be legal", however, all the reality anecdotes that have come up, have come up under the situation as it stands currently. So again, whatever is being done, could stand some improvement, no?

As for porn, we had a thread where people discussed LA's requirement to use condemns, condemning it, and showing no concern for the lives lost as a result of their selfish desire to see porn without condemns.

I don't condom condemns. Sorry, strike that, reverse it.

Still, again, this seems sort of a funhouse mirror interpretation of what went on in that thread, the comments I recall mostly had to do with a shifting landscape for porn and the porn "industry", which like all content producers has found itself on a drastically diff. playing field due to the internet, and is likely far less geographically tied to southern CA to boot. Beyond that, again, "porn" is less a monolithic industry than a means of expression. If someone likes to watch free posted videos of, say, an exhibitionist married couple who have sex without condoms, how is that contributing to anything? Again, there are sort of broad categorizations and assumptions which maybe even applied a couple years ago, and don't now. That said, I don't recall really weighing in on the condom law one way or the other.

And Cuba most certainly is a good example for the connection between poverty and prostitution. Why wouldn't it be?

Sure, fine.

Rampant poverty under Batista was eradicated and prostitution waned to a trickle. The country lost Soviet subsidies, life got harder for ordinary Cubans, and prostitution again resurfaced. The sex trade depends on economic privation.

Which was the same point I was making about a livable minimum wage, etc.

You have an excellent sense of humor and a keen wit, but there are times where it's just not appropriate. In my view, Redqueen's thread about the porn actress (though I disagreed with parts of her argument, mainly that the woman didn't know what she personally found degrading) and that libertarian nonsense on prostitution are two such cases, unless of course your point is to appeal to the peanut gallery by ridiculing feminists.

I wouldn't bother with any of this if I didn't think you were capable of better. Perhaps I'm just wrong about that.

Well, life is too short to do things any other way, as far as I'm concerned. If I've said things that are genuinely hurtful to people, directly, I certainly am open to being called on it and considering apologizing, but I actually try pretty hard not to go there. I think I've gotten better about that over the years. However, how I feel about things is pretty plainly laid out in the words I write. If believing that consenting adults, as a general rule, ought to be free to make their own decisions about their own bodies- and accepting that when I say "consenting adults" examples not involving consenting adults by definition don't apply - counts as "libertarian nonsense", it's another silly label I'll just have to live with.

As for RQ's thread, in my experience she's perfectly capable of holding her own on DU, and if she didn't want people arguing with her, she wouldn't have posted an OP that she knew would draw contentious replies, including to the more ridiculous pieces of her own wording. That thread is a glaring example of the silliness of "porn wars" on DU, right down to people offering total strangers unsolicited lectures on their masturbatory habits. Yes, I'm gonna make fun of that sort of thing. I mean, come on.