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bhikkhu

(10,789 posts)

135. In one of the few references to religion during the constitutional convention...

Mon Apr 9, 2012, 11:53 PM

Apr 2012

as things dragged on during the sultry summer, one suffering "founder" suggested that perhaps they should engage a minister to open the discussions with a prayer for progress and toward a speedy resolution. Another "founder" questioned as to who should be expected to pay such a minister. A third "founder" declared that it was bad idea all around, and that their proceedings had no need for "foreign intervention"; and the matter was not brought up again.

That about sums up the religiosity of the constitutional convention, as detailed in the extensive notes and transcriptions of Madison. Of course, people can believe what they will, and its easiest if you squint your eyes just right when you look at history, or avoid looking altogether and instead concoct an image out of pure imagination.

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I am a christian - and it affects ALL of my political views. [View all] SmileyRose Apr 2012 OP

"So it's best to let the judgement part up to God and live and let live instead." bloomington-lib Apr 2012 #1

the USA is not founded as a christian nation. some of its founders were christians. there is a msongs Apr 2012 #2

small c not big C SmileyRose Apr 2012 #4

Ok - some of the best christians i know are also athiests... Sorry, i missed the small "c" peacebird Apr 2012 #8

That's the most ridiculous thing I've read to date. Lionessa Apr 2012 #9

How about small c consistently compassionate. Voice for Peace Apr 2012 #18

Not to me. Atheists make good humans, not good christians no matter how twisty Lionessa Apr 2012 #21

just for balance.. I do know atheists who are arrogant egomaniacs Voice for Peace Apr 2012 #74

No doubt, I do think I say that somewhere, but the point is they NEVER Lionessa Apr 2012 #80

A beautiful post me b zola Apr 2012 #37

Well said. Thanks. cbayer Apr 2012 #72

Here's what my objection is. Goblinmonger Apr 2012 #81

There's an old story about the small-town folk that mistertrickster Apr 2012 #99

That's mighty white of you. Humanist_Activist Apr 2012 #126

Dial back the anger and hate. nt mistertrickster Apr 2012 #127

What anger? What hate? I'm just trying to illustrate to christians why... Humanist_Activist Apr 2012 #128

haha SmileyRose Apr 2012 #133

yes but even big wars start over very small silly things Voice for Peace Apr 2012 #110

Given that, christian as a word(capitalized or not) is meaningless... Humanist_Activist Apr 2012 #116

Insult after insult dmallind Apr 2012 #24

Totally unfair. mistertrickster Apr 2012 #95

Totally irrelevant dmallind Apr 2012 #108

You can't take a compliment. nt mistertrickster Apr 2012 #121

That's a very good point mistertrickster Apr 2012 #33

Maybe the point is that what Christ taught Goblinmonger Apr 2012 #82

Who's disputing that? nt mistertrickster Apr 2012 #93

My point would then be Goblinmonger Apr 2012 #94

christian SmileyRose Apr 2012 #129

Some of us can our knickers all in a twist over anything. MissMarple Apr 2012 #140

Christians are not "good people". Marr Apr 2012 #41

I am wiccan. I believe in the three fold law. That which I send out to the world returns 3x to me. peacebird Apr 2012 #3

Does the three fold law dictate that people deserve what they get? ZombieHorde Apr 2012 #15

Nope. That is not partof the three fold law. All it says is that what I send out into the world will peacebird Apr 2012 #16

I have never heard of that law!! but I've noticed the phenomenon Voice for Peace Apr 2012 #19

When i was ten a friends mom told me about karma, that youndon't need to "pay someone back" for peacebird Apr 2012 #20

You realize that when atheists ridicule and demean Christians for "illogical and unscientific" mistertrickster Apr 2012 #100

I am sorry for our nation then, folks mixing their religions no matter Lionessa Apr 2012 #5

I AGREE Skittles Apr 2012 #12

You mean like Lincoln? Nt mistertrickster Apr 2012 #29

Huh?what does Lincoln have to do with this thread? Lionessa Apr 2012 #30

He applied his religious beliefs to gov't. mistertrickster Apr 2012 #32

I'm sorry but christians of his time didn't agree with his perception of Lionessa Apr 2012 #35

Slavery's defenders were on more solid footing in the theological debate over slavery. Marr Apr 2012 #42

The letter of the law killeth, mistertrickster Apr 2012 #48

Translation: Goblinmonger Apr 2012 #83

I'm curious about the reference to integrity el_bryanto Apr 2012 #71

I suspect your political views are what affects your religious views. ZombieHorde Apr 2012 #6

you might be right SmileyRose Apr 2012 #14

Not so sure about that. Zalatix Apr 2012 #58

I am not sure what your point is. ZombieHorde Apr 2012 #88

Women pastors violate the "man as the head" idea. Zalatix Apr 2012 #105

Yes, the church is probably liberal, or at least moderate. nt ZombieHorde Apr 2012 #112

I wish all Christians were like this... liberalmuse Apr 2012 #7

Christian nation? Iggo Apr 2012 #10

Thank you. liberalmuse Apr 2012 #11

And the two times religion is actually mentioned in the constitution it's negative. Initech Apr 2012 #34

Very well said in my opinion. nt Live and Learn Apr 2012 #13

Thank you, Rose. mistertrickster Apr 2012 #17

So because a minimum of 60% of the world's most generous philanthropists are nonbelievers dmallind Apr 2012 #25

I have no problem whatsoever with atheists. mistertrickster Apr 2012 #27

That is rich Major Nikon Apr 2012 #38

Some atheists attack my belief system by acting superior. mistertrickster Apr 2012 #52

Oh, you have other ways to act superior, they are all over this thread... Humanist_Activist Apr 2012 #132

I think that you sound like a really good role model Marrah_G Apr 2012 #22

I was raised to be a Xian, but about 40 years ago I found this seminal quote Air Marshal8 Apr 2012 #23

If God stops evil, mistertrickster Apr 2012 #28

Seems like many Christians are nothing but automatons... Tikki Apr 2012 #31

How about if we skip the word "evil" and just focus on, say, tsunamis. Marr Apr 2012 #43

Because everything that lives must die. nt mistertrickster Apr 2012 #118

If your baby died in a tsunami, you'd just sigh and say, Marr Apr 2012 #130

Is there evil in heaven? n/t trotsky Apr 2012 #50

No. Presumably there's no free will in heaven either. mistertrickster Apr 2012 #54

Sounds like a lovely place. trotsky Apr 2012 #67

One can't reduce the ineffable mind of God mistertrickster Apr 2012 #75

Ah yes, "god works in mysterious ways." trotsky Apr 2012 #79

You are a legend in your own mind. mistertrickster Apr 2012 #86

Time for the dueling Einstein quotes already? trotsky Apr 2012 #98

Fair enough, but he also criticized atheism. mistertrickster Apr 2012 #101

He criticized what is classified as "strong" or gnostic atheism. trotsky Apr 2012 #102

Many people rejected Jesus during His lifetime. mistertrickster Apr 2012 #119

I guess we are just stupid or refuse to give up our evil ways. trotsky Apr 2012 #137

Now wait a minute. Marr Apr 2012 #104

The way humans see God changed greatly mistertrickster Apr 2012 #120

So... what? Those wrathful episodes didn't actually happen? Marr Apr 2012 #131

If we have free will, "god" is superfluous Air Marshal8 Apr 2012 #117

It does have a lot to do with upbringing SmileyRose Apr 2012 #45

SmileyRose, a number of the Founding Fathers JDPriestly Apr 2012 #26

What on earth did people do before the Christians came along and invented good people? MuseRider Apr 2012 #36

Homo sapiens were all murderous assholes for 48,000 years. Marr Apr 2012 #44

Home School History 101. Iggo Apr 2012 #64

Homeschooling with a 48,000 year old earth? I don't think so. DisgustipatedinCA Apr 2012 #114

Excellent point, sir! Iggo Apr 2012 #115

So, are you saying that without your belief you would be a cruel, selfish, parasite? n/t Egalitarian Thug Apr 2012 #39

You're confusing religion with morality Major Nikon Apr 2012 #40

Maybe SmileyRose Apr 2012 #46

Those aren't Christian values lunatica Apr 2012 #47

Abraham Lincoln's Christian faith in action: mistertrickster Apr 2012 #49

George W. Bush's Christian faith in action: trotsky Apr 2012 #51

True. But I didn't "ignore" it. mistertrickster Apr 2012 #53

"Christianity can be used to justify many different and contradictory conclusions." cleanhippie Apr 2012 #55

Oh, it's you again. mistertrickster Apr 2012 #56

Accepting diversity does not include tolerating intolerance. cleanhippie Apr 2012 #60

Some do, some don't. mistertrickster Apr 2012 #61

I find it curious how you only see whast you want to. cleanhippie Apr 2012 #66

Not an actual rebuttal, is it. mistertrickster Apr 2012 #77

Just following your lead. cleanhippie Apr 2012 #78

You'd expect something clever-er than that mistertrickster Apr 2012 #87

Bwahahahaha! Even your Ad Hominem attacks are weak. cleanhippie Apr 2012 #107

Ad hominem, au contraire mistertrickster Apr 2012 #122

Je le r�p�te, "Weak and full of fail." cleanhippie Apr 2012 #138

If it's grounded in unsugared porridge, will it be Scottish? trotsky Apr 2012 #68

You mean the same Lincoln that said this? Goblinmonger Apr 2012 #84

Whoa . . . never saw that before. Link? nt mistertrickster Apr 2012 #85

I had heard them before and just did a quick google search for the actual wording Goblinmonger Apr 2012 #89

Sounds kinda bogus to me. mistertrickster Apr 2012 #91

I'm not putting any money on their authenticity Goblinmonger Apr 2012 #92

Sorry, but I disagree with your contention that the US is a Christian nation, MadHound Apr 2012 #57

Some of them were deist, some of them were Christian mistertrickster Apr 2012 #62

More complicated than you think MadHound Apr 2012 #63

You might be right. I know he condemned Christianity brutally. mistertrickster Apr 2012 #76

I would be interested in any citation you have that he was a traditional Christian grantcart Apr 2012 #96

You probably won't find evidence for it on an atheist site. mistertrickster Apr 2012 #97

lol no but what does the site reference have to do with anything? grantcart Apr 2012 #113

I'm a christian, too. However, I would say this in response. Zalatix Apr 2012 #59

I think anyone who uses their beliefs Cairycat Apr 2012 #65

Guess I can't count on your vote, then. BiggJawn Apr 2012 #69

but some Christians think we should I handle snakes and others picket funerals. Kablooie Apr 2012 #70

No one has the right to decide for another. mistertrickster Apr 2012 #90

Well done, SmileyRose. cbayer Apr 2012 #73

This country was "not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." PassingFair Apr 2012 #103

This Atheist loves Christians like you Taverner Apr 2012 #106

Thank you for that message of respect. Back at you, nt. mistertrickster Apr 2012 #123

BTW...I don't think you really want religion in politics Taverner Apr 2012 #139

I am an atheist, and I have to say that affects my politics, too.... mike_c Apr 2012 #109

Oh great, a "left" theocrat is just as bad as a "right" theocrat... Humanist_Activist Apr 2012 #111

Wow, there's so much straw in that straw man, mistertrickster Apr 2012 #124

Then what was the point of calling it, multiple times, a "Christian Nation"? n/t Humanist_Activist Apr 2012 #125

Most of the Founding Fathers were at least nominally Christian jcboon Apr 2012 #134

In one of the few references to religion during the constitutional convention... bhikkhu Apr 2012 #135

Respectfully I don't think it does. Kablooie Apr 2012 #136