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alcibiades_mystery

(36,437 posts)

147. Of course he wouldn't, but the charge on the incident report is Robbery 2

Sun Aug 17, 2014, 08:15 PM

Aug 2014

And everybody screaming that it was a strong arm robbery agree that it was Robbery 2, which is a felony carrying MINIMUM 5 years in prison. That is the minimum penalty in Missouri for the charge in the incident report that many people are agreeing with.

In the "real world" that some here love to trumpet, it would be pleaded down significantly, and he'd likely get 12 months probation. Obviously. But then we don't really think this was a strong arm robbery in the same way knocking over a woman in the street for the express purpose of grabbing her bag is a strong arm robbery, right? We know it's not the same as that, so all this nonsense about the "elements" of the charge is just that: bullshit. Even the people arguing that it is a strong arm robbery don't really believe it.

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Michael Brown, Ferguson Victim Paid For His Rellos [View all] octoberlib Aug 2014 OP

CAn't really tell. MohRokTah Aug 2014 #1

Good observation Bluzmann57 Aug 2014 #4

oooh thank you!!! Quayblue Aug 2014 #6

I wonder if the clerk came around the counter because JaneyVee Aug 2014 #45

Do you think any of the so-called altercation might be about Brown's age to buy R B Garr Aug 2014 #46

I thought the altercation might have been over their ages JimDandy Aug 2014 #159

This makes a lot of sense! Great analysis. That seemed like a disagreement rather than R B Garr Aug 2014 #178

I've read that the clerk at the counter who handed him the Swisher Sweets aint_no_life_nowhere Aug 2014 #2

I believe per police report, the friend put what he was handed back on the counter. Shrike47 Aug 2014 #101

Yes, Johnson puts the unopened big box of cigarellos JimDandy Aug 2014 #169

The store owner says *they* did not call the cops. tblue37 Aug 2014 #175

If it turns out he paid .... earthside Aug 2014 #3

Probably that he punched the clerk and the officer. Michigander_Life Aug 2014 #5

They'll talk about how big he was. Overpowering. Incredible strength. MohRokTah Aug 2014 #92

Well, the cop thought that he might be a suspect in an alleged robbery. Jim__ Aug 2014 #7

as I understand it - LiberalElite Aug 2014 #10

Apparently, Wilson is going to claim he did know. Jim__ Aug 2014 #12

ugh. - LiberalElite Aug 2014 #114

This one as well cleduc Aug 2014 #142

At 6:28 of this video, this part seems clear cleduc Aug 2014 #150

Here's someone else's attempt to transcribe the audio cleduc Aug 2014 #152

Rodger Elliot who up loaded that video is DEAD FreakinDJ Aug 2014 #153

It seems to be a clip from BlackCanseco cleduc Aug 2014 #180

It was being mass emailed from Gun-nut websites this morning FreakinDJ Aug 2014 #181

"all the conjecture without proof is not compelling in my opinion" cleduc Aug 2014 #186

Wilson didn't know per the police chief's Blue_Roses Aug 2014 #23

According to Wilson's friend, Wilson is claiming he did know. Jim__ Aug 2014 #25

But, this is just a friend's word Blue_Roses Aug 2014 #27

If he knew why didn't he stop him and ask about a robbery instead of stopping him for walking in the kelliekat44 Aug 2014 #52

Actually, if you listen to the interview they talk about that. Jim__ Aug 2014 #61

Now, they are saying Wilson did not know Brown was a suspect when he first saw him. Hoyt Aug 2014 #127

You're assuming reality is important to them. jeff47 Aug 2014 #14

Your eyes are better than 840high Aug 2014 #40

And why wasn't this portion of the video released earlier? earthside Aug 2014 #8

It was, this isn't new video rudolph the red Aug 2014 #11

Well this changes the whole narrative a bit Bjorn Against Aug 2014 #9

This footage was in the initial release. Why are people thinking it's new? cui bono Aug 2014 #16

It is quite interesting that no news outlets showed it then Bjorn Against Aug 2014 #20

They did show it. That's how I saw it. cui bono Aug 2014 #36

No, it was not. The initial release only showed the shoving match, not the part at the counter. nt ChisolmTrailDem Aug 2014 #26

Yes it was. I guess it just depends on where you saw the video. I saw the entire exchange on Friday. cui bono Aug 2014 #28

The initial release showed only Brown and Johnson entering the store and then the ChisolmTrailDem Aug 2014 #41

That was posted on Friday. It came out before today. Two days ago. cui bono Aug 2014 #43

Cool. I mentioned on Friday, after the extended video surfaced, that it looked like maybe ChisolmTrailDem Aug 2014 #49

In my state, government agents do pretend shopping trips to see if-- eridani Aug 2014 #193

You're right Politicalboi Aug 2014 #56

And that was done, IMO, to assassinate Brown's character by a PD steeped ChisolmTrailDem Aug 2014 #65

Well one thing is for sure he does not have a box in his hand exboyfil Aug 2014 #90

And another thing for sure is that Dorian Johnson put that box back on the counter cui bono Aug 2014 #94

The police report puts the box as the value exboyfil Aug 2014 #99

I don't think the clerk did that. I think the police did it. cui bono Aug 2014 #102

Wow heads are going to roll if that is the case exboyfil Aug 2014 #104

I saw it posted as a pdf online, must have been on MSNBC or CNN. cui bono Aug 2014 #106

First time I've seen it and I have been paying close attention. Live and Learn Aug 2014 #39

Weird. I'm on the west coast and I was watching video of the conference that had happened while I cui bono Aug 2014 #42

Funny, West Coast here too and I was watching online. Live and Learn Aug 2014 #44

I think the confrontation with the clerk was not a clear-cut case of robbery but something ChisolmTrailDem Aug 2014 #47

That is what it looks like to me too. Live and Learn Aug 2014 #50

Maybe Brown THOUGHT he fully paid for the cigars aint_no_life_nowhere Aug 2014 #53

Yes. Or Brown felt he was the one being cheated and took what he felt had had... ChisolmTrailDem Aug 2014 #62

Could have been that the confrontation was over showing ID. n/t winter is coming Aug 2014 #82

Good catch, winter. I had not thought of that! Quite possible, indeed! nt ChisolmTrailDem Aug 2014 #83

That's what I would guess is the most likely explanation for all this. JimDandy Aug 2014 #172

Maybe the clerk wanted some proof of his age, RebelOne Aug 2014 #126

Good point, RebelOne! nt ChisolmTrailDem Aug 2014 #128

That varies by state. I think the age for tobacco in Missouri is 18. n/t winter is coming Aug 2014 #133

why the confrontation then Travis_0004 Aug 2014 #139

How olds Johnson? Alittleliberal Aug 2014 #160

Sounds reasonable. But Brown then should have left without them Travis_0004 Aug 2014 #161

No. bravenak Aug 2014 #177

No, tobacco can be purchased at age 18 in Missouri. JimDandy Aug 2014 #174

Yeah, we can't tell if he actually stole or not. cui bono Aug 2014 #13

wasn't that store destroyed by rioters a couple nights ago? CatWoman Aug 2014 #15

I think so, and then the people of the community helped clean it up. cui bono Aug 2014 #17

If there was no theft, the store owner wasn't justified in confronting Brown at the exit aint_no_life_nowhere Aug 2014 #19

Yeah. We can't tell what happened, and unfortunately for Brown it doesn't matter cui bono Aug 2014 #30

i bet that 911 call isnt about Mr. Brown Quayblue Aug 2014 #18

I've watched this video several time, at what point does he pay? rudolph the red Aug 2014 #21

on You Tube, found in the video description CatWoman Aug 2014 #22

Thanks rudolph the red Aug 2014 #24

Yep, and he certainly doesn't look in a hurry to get out of there. Live and Learn Aug 2014 #29

I can't see it. cui bono Aug 2014 #31

Look behind Brown as he straightens up from picking up the cigarello packages off the floor... JimDandy Aug 2014 #173

It looks like he is trying to give it back to Brown exboyfil Aug 2014 #103

If he's attempting to give the money back to Brown JimDandy Aug 2014 #176

If he handed his the tobacco prior to getting age verification then an infraction was committed. bravenak Aug 2014 #179

That's supposed to be the exact procedure all right. JimDandy Aug 2014 #183

We have problems up here with minor consumption. bravenak Aug 2014 #184

This message was self-deleted by its author JimDandy Aug 2014 #188

I wonder if the clerk refused to sell him cigars because he didnt have an ID Travis_0004 Aug 2014 #141

I hope the woman standing there toward the end of this video... OneGrassRoot Aug 2014 #32

So, it appears that Brown was involved in a small altercation at the store Live and Learn Aug 2014 #33

Don't get distracted Robbins Aug 2014 #34

I don't think we are distracted. Live and Learn Aug 2014 #63

Someone yesterday posed the question: if Brown's hands were full of cigars (or 'rellos'), then how VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #86

Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2014 #35

I didn't hear that. When did he say that? What did he say? cui bono Aug 2014 #37

Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2014 #132

Can't tell. 840high Aug 2014 #38

Umm, his friend who was there with him and also on the video has admitted that they stole them Lee-Lee Aug 2014 #48

Not much of a 'strong arm' robbery...but I'm sure the police called it that Rex Aug 2014 #51

By the law, it is "Strong Arm Robbery" or second degree theft because of the assault Lee-Lee Aug 2014 #55

Where was the assault? All I saw was 3 or 4 images...is there a video Rex Aug 2014 #57

Here Lee-Lee Aug 2014 #59

So pushing the guy out of his way so he could leave, is considered 'strong arm' robbery? Rex Aug 2014 #67

If you push someone aside to facilitate a theft, yes Lee-Lee Aug 2014 #73

Kinda like people that run from the cops imo. Rex Aug 2014 #74

Yep. I saw people turn a fine and maybe CS hours and turn it into years in jail Lee-Lee Aug 2014 #85

He is considered innocent until proven guilty. Live and Learn Aug 2014 #76

"Shopkeepers Privilege"- a store owner or clerk CAN keep you from leaving if they suspect theft Lee-Lee Aug 2014 #79

In some jurisdictions... Live and Learn Aug 2014 #84

Its that way in most every state, but here is the relevant MO statute Lee-Lee Aug 2014 #89

I'd nix you on reasonable grounds then Live and Learn Aug 2014 #95

Well most reasonable people udnerstand the law is what it says, not what you want it to be Lee-Lee Aug 2014 #97

Yep, there are a lot of bad defense attorneys out there Live and Learn Aug 2014 #98

an assault is just an offensive touching qazplm Aug 2014 #68

Well the officer that allegedly shot and killed Brown had no idea of the robbery at the time he Rex Aug 2014 #71

I doubt this even rises to the level of a criminal assault and battery aint_no_life_nowhere Aug 2014 #129

That meets the legal definition of assault. WillowTree Aug 2014 #140

It has always seemed like an odd thing for an attorney to admit to me. Live and Learn Aug 2014 #54

Something really fishy about this. Is that video of the same incident? What was in Brown's hands kelliekat44 Aug 2014 #58

And why didn't they look to be in a hurry? Live and Learn Aug 2014 #66

The pics I saw, were of the same man and Brown...but were NOT in that video. Rex Aug 2014 #70

and the person tweeting right after it happened somehow Schema Thing Aug 2014 #91

Schema, that's EXACTLY what I wanted to know.... HOW THE HELL did the person Ecumenist Aug 2014 #190

Maybe they have a scanner? countryjake Aug 2014 #191

I find that hard to believe because they NEVER mention that although they talk about what Ecumenist Aug 2014 #192

Can't find an MSNBC interview of attorney Freeman Bosley aint_no_life_nowhere Aug 2014 #105

One more time. WillowTree Aug 2014 #149

How much pressure was he under? n2doc Aug 2014 #112

The cops have bigger issues to deal with Travis_0004 Aug 2014 #143

Not so fast. Moosepoop Aug 2014 #146

This is the exact quote from Bosley's interview with Don Lemon: JimDandy Aug 2014 #187

In this video it looks like Politicalboi Aug 2014 #60

If he paid could that be why the Police Chief presented then discounted the video? gordianot Aug 2014 #64

One thing the video shows is that Brown couldn't have been convicted Live and Learn Aug 2014 #72

I could easily get an assault conviction of that video, probably the theft too Lee-Lee Aug 2014 #77

Not if I were on the jury. Live and Learn Aug 2014 #78

"your definition" of assault doesn't matter. The LAW matters Lee-Lee Aug 2014 #81

Brown didn't grab anyone by the throat. Live and Learn Aug 2014 #88

Has dashcam been released yet showing that? Lee-Lee Aug 2014 #93

Funny, I only saw a shirt tugged. Live and Learn Aug 2014 #96

Last Sunday, Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson said there's no video... countryjake Aug 2014 #189

Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2014 #136

ALLEGED thief. I guess you forgot that part. Live and Learn Aug 2014 #154

The LAW has never mattered to cops who are bent on getting a conviction... countryjake Aug 2014 #125

Thank you, countryjake! This needed to be said. BlueCaliDem Aug 2014 #130

+2 nt Live and Learn Aug 2014 #157

With your attitude, I doubt you'll ever serve on a jury. You seem very confused. Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #117

So you've already convicted a dead man without a trial? Live and Learn Aug 2014 #118

No, I haven't convicted anyone. Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #120

All I said was that based on the video ALONE, Live and Learn Aug 2014 #122

Well, then you are biased! nt Logical Aug 2014 #134

I'd say the same about you. nt Live and Learn Aug 2014 #158

If my son or daughter was treated like that clerk was I would be pissed.... Logical Aug 2014 #162

Well at least I wouldn't be sending your child up river Live and Learn Aug 2014 #163

Who fucking said prison term? Link to where I said that. nt Logical Aug 2014 #164

That is the sentence for robbery. Live and Learn Aug 2014 #165

LOL, so let me get this straight, customers in your world.... Logical Aug 2014 #166

And in your world, nearly everyone would be in prison. Live and Learn Aug 2014 #167

Lol, where did I say prison? Link please! You are silly! nt Logical Aug 2014 #171

You would send an 18 year old to prison for 5 years for what we see in that video? alcibiades_mystery Aug 2014 #107

Exactly. Over zealous prosecutors are a big problem. nt Live and Learn Aug 2014 #109

For a first offense nobody is getting 5 years for that Lee-Lee Aug 2014 #110

If you don't think he deserves the minimum for Robbery 2, then you don't think it's Robbery 2 alcibiades_mystery Aug 2014 #113

You don't understand how a crime is judged Lee-Lee Aug 2014 #115

Would Michael Brown deserve 5 years in state prison alcibiades_mystery Aug 2014 #121

No, but as I said in the real world he wouldn't get it Lee-Lee Aug 2014 #124

Would you want your kid treated like that as a clerk? nt Logical Aug 2014 #135

Of course not alcibiades_mystery Aug 2014 #144

I agree, probation at the most. Nt Logical Aug 2014 #148

He would not go to jail for 5 years Travis_0004 Aug 2014 #145

Of course he wouldn't, but the charge on the incident report is Robbery 2 alcibiades_mystery Aug 2014 #147

You're not going to get an assault charge if there was a wrongful attempt to detain Brown aint_no_life_nowhere Aug 2014 #108

I already posted MO law, shopkeepers can detain if they suspect theft Lee-Lee Aug 2014 #111

The law is not as black and white as you are trying to depict it. Live and Learn Aug 2014 #119

If a shopkeeper is pushed aside by someone who turns out to be innocent of theft aint_no_life_nowhere Aug 2014 #123

+1 nt Live and Learn Aug 2014 #168

I wonder if the clerk was trying to get ID from him csziggy Aug 2014 #69

It could even be that Brown had some ID but not a state ID card. n/t winter is coming Aug 2014 #87

I see where you're coming from... Quayblue Aug 2014 #156

And Michael Brown had no valid photo ID, according to police reports countryjake Aug 2014 #137

What does matter is that if my theory is true Mike Brown was no thief csziggy Aug 2014 #138

Dorian Johnson could easily provide the answer as to whether they had a problem with ID JimDandy Aug 2014 #185

Thank you for posting. I've updated my thread from yesterday to VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #75

He is interacting with the clerk, they are clearly having a discussion. Then, at :19, ChisolmTrailDem Aug 2014 #80

I've worked in the retail industry. Mr.Bill Aug 2014 #100

That doesn't look like paying to me. Marr Aug 2014 #116

Except that Ferguson admitted, through his lawyer, that they stole them. n/t Ms. Toad Aug 2014 #131

Johnson (not Ferguson) admitted that they TOOK them alcibiades_mystery Aug 2014 #151

Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2014 #194

I don't know that he didn't pay alcibiades_mystery Aug 2014 #195

What do you think is a reasonable penalty for shoplifting? nt cyberswede Aug 2014 #196

grabbed numerous packs of Swisher Sweets and turned to the leave the store. [redacted] calls �911�. w4rma Aug 2014 #155

kick whereisjustice Aug 2014 #170

Oops Kalidurga Aug 2014 #182

Why hasn't the media talked with this clerk? Not that it matters. You cannot shot an unarmed jwirr Aug 2014 #197

Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2014 #198