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cheyanne

(733 posts)
47. There is a difference between "justified" and evidence in a court of law.
Wed Aug 20, 2014, 08:44 PM
Aug 2014

No evidence will make what Wilson did right, but it will make a difference in what the punishment is for what he did.

As we all know from past experiences (Trayvon), the law has very narrow definitions of murder, manslaughter, etc. that has to be met. And it's crushing when we expect the court to do something it can't: convict on what we believe as opposed to what is proven in court.

At The Volokh Conspiracy you can see a clear explanation of the differences between the charges and the evidence that will be debated in court.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/08/20/what-state-charges-could-be-filed-in-the-michael-brown-shooting/

Here's an example:
"The most serious homicide charge is first-degree murder. Under Missouri law “[a] person commits the crime of murder in the first degree if he knowingly causes the death of another person after deliberation upon the matter.” This charge seems quite improbable, even accepting the version of the facts most favorable to Brown’s supporters, because it would be difficult to show that the officer deliberated before killing Brown.

This leads, then, to second-degree murder which, as relevant here, applies where a person “knowingly causes the death of another person . . . .” To act “knowingly” means to act in a way that producing a result (here, death) is almost certain. So the officer seems to have knowingly shot and killed Brown. Would this automatically be second-degree murder?"

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0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Ooh! I am also curious. IdaBriggs Aug 2014 #1
There seems to be a lot of them around these days. JaneyVee Aug 2014 #3
I doubt, anyone ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #30
What i see RobertEarl Aug 2014 #39
I see the "innocent before guilty" thrown around here too... L0oniX Aug 2014 #73
... Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #22
Me too... ReRe Aug 2014 #49
Idiots Rule billhicks76 Aug 2014 #58
What evidence has been presented against ZombieHorde Aug 2014 #2
Is that illegal? JaneyVee Aug 2014 #4
I think it was the Daily Caller Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #20
Michael Brown would have gotten on top of him and pummelled him into... Anansi1171 Aug 2014 #5
For some pigs just being black is aggressive enough to shoot first especially if they are running... L0oniX Aug 2014 #75
I can't stand those "wait for evidence" folks either. Nye Bevan Aug 2014 #6
that's the President of the United States who has to be careful of the way he talks about Racism JI7 Aug 2014 #13
Supposedly made up of reasoned people. Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #19
this board ? no JI7 Aug 2014 #26
On your other point. Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #27
the President understands where this country is when it comes to Racism , just saying JI7 Aug 2014 #28
That made me laugh ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #31
So it's like Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #33
No ... not at all. eom. 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #34
I thought it was obvious in the OP I was referring to DU. JaneyVee Aug 2014 #18
So, in real life, you say wait for the evidence, pintobean Aug 2014 #35
Apparently if you're anonymous you have to say that Wilson was undoubtedly a murderous racist Nye Bevan Aug 2014 #38
It's flattering that pintobean Aug 2014 #41
Since when is the Good Ol' Boy network due process? R B Garr Aug 2014 #105
no non-anonymous person holds your position Enrique Aug 2014 #7
I agree. It was for the DU crowd. JaneyVee Aug 2014 #15
"Waiting for Evidence" = "Shut up and stop being outraged" n2doc Aug 2014 #8
I'm waiting to see if anyone who has a clue about police training pipoman Aug 2014 #9
I've been waiting since June 2013 for the same Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #17
If Brown attacked the officer, tried to grab his gun, hit him in the face and broke bones, Vattel Aug 2014 #10
I know for an absolute fact madville Aug 2014 #11
you might then be surprised to be a juror. uncle ray Aug 2014 #42
So you're waiting for proof that 2 of the 6 holes were really in Browns head? Those ARE kill shots. L0oniX Aug 2014 #76
The shot placement is fact at this point madville Aug 2014 #81
Do you doubt there is a suspect too? L0oniX Aug 2014 #83
If the DA or Grand Jury determine a crime has been committed madville Aug 2014 #93
You know that if it were anyone else they would be spending at least 24 hours in jail. L0oniX Aug 2014 #94
Correct madville Aug 2014 #99
As my own decision will have no affectations on the actual jury proceedings LanternWaste Aug 2014 #114
If he was running away I 100% agree with you! nt Logical Aug 2014 #12
Your premise is off Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #14
Ok, but we've heard both sides. JaneyVee Aug 2014 #23
Hardly Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #24
Again. HooptieWagon Aug 2014 #101
here is a good answer: Enrique Aug 2014 #16
See post 15. JaneyVee Aug 2014 #21
He's describing what will happen in the grand jury pintobean Aug 2014 #25
If this was a Black Officer gunning down a rich white kid in Beverly Hills, well BaggersRDumb Aug 2014 #29
Reggie Hammond agrees. AngryAmish Aug 2014 #32
Stop making sense ...you are spoiling the troll party. L0oniX Aug 2014 #95
Then why bother having a trial? Why don't we just lynch the officer? Glassunion Aug 2014 #36
There you go again with this bullshit. First of all, you are severely disrespecting everyone who h Solomon Aug 2014 #43
+1000 nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #50
If he hasn't committed a crime, why should he be arrested? ColesCountyDem Aug 2014 #51
Huh? gollygee Aug 2014 #53
That wasn't what I asked. ColesCountyDem Aug 2014 #57
I heard four eye witnesses very soon after the event gollygee Aug 2014 #62
I heard them, too. ColesCountyDem Aug 2014 #64
Would any of them lead to an arrest warrant gollygee Aug 2014 #65
Why should he face a preliminary, much less arrest? ColesCountyDem Aug 2014 #67
If you want to know why people are upset gollygee Aug 2014 #68
I know that. ColesCountyDem Aug 2014 #69
A dead teen taken down by 6 bullets with four eyewitnesses describing a miscarriage of justice Ed Suspicious Aug 2014 #103
The length of time can vary widely. n/t ColesCountyDem Aug 2014 #109
Oh no you didnt! There is no way in hell you were a public defender and saying there is no probable Solomon Aug 2014 #111
Prove probable cause. ColesCountyDem Aug 2014 #112
Because he is a murder "suspect"! L0oniX Aug 2014 #79
Says who? ColesCountyDem Aug 2014 #80
OFFS ...do you not believe there are 6 holes in Brown ...2 head shots? L0oniX Aug 2014 #82
Don't presume to tell me what I do and do not know, thank you very much. ColesCountyDem Aug 2014 #85
Oh ...now a jay walker is "suspect" ...whatever ...have a nice day. L0oniX Aug 2014 #88
I didn't say that, and you know very well I didn't. ColesCountyDem Aug 2014 #92
What do you mean there I go again? Glassunion Aug 2014 #60
The longer any evidence is withheld the more time there is for........ wandy Aug 2014 #37
You seem to know a lot for person that wasn't there. maced666 Aug 2014 #40
What "eye witnesses" said Mike Brown "rushed" the cop? BuelahWitch Aug 2014 #44
Link to those dozen witnesses please. I can't prove a negative, but you should be able to prove this pnwmom Aug 2014 #45
What dozen eye witnesses are those? gollygee Aug 2014 #55
So he kept charging *after* being shot several times? Was he a Terminator? nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #56
Eye Witness account who didn't know Michael Brown and not a resident of 1monster Aug 2014 #61
Btw, the "dozen eye witnesses" claim was retracted. jeff47 Aug 2014 #66
Ah, using the "pull stuff out of your ass and then run away" gambit, are you? Always impressive. Squinch Aug 2014 #84
Excellent questions. blackspade Aug 2014 #46
There is a difference between "justified" and evidence in a court of law. cheyanne Aug 2014 #47
Post removed Post removed Aug 2014 #48
I would suggest that you pintobean Aug 2014 #52
Jury is out on that one. Rex Aug 2014 #86
Gee, who could have seen that coming? pintobean Aug 2014 #90
Thank you for saying that. Seriously. n/t nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #96
When was the last time you were told by a police officer to "get the fuck out of the road" logosoco Aug 2014 #54
Why are you so sure he attacked Wilson? nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #59
What evidence would make you think that it wasn't the action of a trigger happy cop? mythology Aug 2014 #63
What evidence? A live 18 year old. Without 6 bullet wounds. That's SIX. Squinch Aug 2014 #87
2 direct ...intentional kill ...head shots. L0oniX Aug 2014 #97
I am waiting for all the evidence AnalystInParadise Aug 2014 #70
From my perspective GitRDun Aug 2014 #71
The 'wait for evidence' = wait for Michael Brown's corpse to be convicted Chisox08 Aug 2014 #72
The facts do not agree AnalystInParadise Aug 2014 #74
What part of shot at didn't you understand. Chisox08 Aug 2014 #78
The 2 head shots are "intentional" kill shots. L0oniX Aug 2014 #91
That was all of the evidence I needed. Chisox08 Aug 2014 #100
What part of ongoing investigation do you not understand? AnalystInParadise Aug 2014 #98
Where in post did I refer to him as a pig? Chisox08 Aug 2014 #102
The person after you AnalystInParadise Aug 2014 #104
To "wait for the evidence" means you assume the police were justified in the killing. Kablooie Aug 2014 #77
The rule is if you are a pig suspect you don't get arrested but if you are not a pig ...then ...well L0oniX Aug 2014 #89
It doesn't mean that 840high Aug 2014 #106
first of all, he didn't run away from gunfire TorchTheWitch Aug 2014 #107
That took courage to post. Thanks. 840high Aug 2014 #113
Some are still "waiting for evidence" in the Trayvon Martin killing. U4ikLefty Aug 2014 #108
I Believe Sparhawk60 Aug 2014 #110
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