General Discussion

VanGoghRocks

(621 posts)

9. Have there been any defeats of their (RT.com's) "favored forces"? While I have

Sun Aug 24, 2014, 10:16 AM

Aug 2014

seen plenty of non-RT.com news reports of Ukrainian National Guard and AF bombing and shelling of separatist residential areas in Lugansk and Donetsk, I don't recall hearing of any 'surrender ceremonies' by the separatists to the putschistas. (The separatists did 'retreat' from Slovyansk, but said retreat was accomplished in good order without any collapse of separatist morale or fighting capabilities.)

If one reads between the lines of non-RT sources, one finds that the Ukrainian regular army has essentially mutinied and is refusing to take part in this civil war, leaving the putschistas to rely upon Banderites recruited into the so-called "National Guard" from the western provinces, making it a true civil war between west\northcentral and east\southeast.

Notice my use of language: the "putschistas" overthrew a democratically elected government using shock troops of fascists (Svoboda) and neo-Nazis (Right Sector). Is it any wonder the regular Ukrainian Army is refusing to participate?

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

114 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Anti-Kiev separatists score major successes against loyal forces near Donetsk. [View all] another_liberal Aug 2014 OP

... according to RT...nt SidDithers Aug 2014 #1

Amazing . . . another_liberal Aug 2014 #2

Amazing... pinboy3niner Aug 2014 #3

Isn't it great that Western Media never does that? another_liberal Aug 2014 #4

Yes, the free western media certainly have their faults pinboy3niner Aug 2014 #6

Who is defending anyone? another_liberal Aug 2014 #12

Funny thing is that the only news sources you post are those IronGate Aug 2014 #51

There are plenty of people beating the war drums already . . . another_liberal Aug 2014 #99

So, IOW, you can't link to a legitimate source claiming this? IronGate Aug 2014 #100

I get it, already . . . another_liberal Aug 2014 #101

If RT is so reliable, IronGate Aug 2014 #102

They have not informed me yet of their reasons . . . another_liberal Aug 2014 #103

So, we're back to where we started? IronGate Aug 2014 #104

Nor Will Any, Sir, Because It Has Not Happened The Magistrate Aug 2014 #107

Were you there? another_liberal Aug 2014 #108

An Event On The Scale Claimed, Sir, Would Be Widely Reported The Magistrate Aug 2014 #109

Perhaps someday it will be "widely reported" . . . another_liberal Aug 2014 #110

In That Great Bye And Bye, We Will All Meet In The Sky, Sir The Magistrate Aug 2014 #111

Yeah, sure . . . another_liberal Aug 2014 #112

Hang Tight, Sir: The Bridge Will Be Delivered Any Day Now.... The Magistrate Aug 2014 #113

Dammit! another_liberal Aug 2014 #114

You May Not Be Aware, Sir, But That Is Hardly A Rebuttal The Magistrate Aug 2014 #7

Have there been any defeats of their (RT.com's) "favored forces"? While I have VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #9

I think many Western Ukrainians believe it is stupid policy . . . another_liberal Aug 2014 #13

Most armed conflicts nowadays end in some kind of negotiated settlement. The days of U.S. Grant's VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #15

The Russian proxies also paraded their POWs through the streets. sufrommich Aug 2014 #5

That is ugly indeed . . . another_liberal Aug 2014 #10

Because god knows the rebels haven't participated in anything warlike mythology Aug 2014 #41

Well, clearly these fine "freedom fighters" are staunch believers in the Geneva Convention. Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #8

After what Kiev has made those people endure . . . another_liberal Aug 2014 #11

These are the acts of the seperatist movement, not innocent civilians. Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #21

The Ukrainian government is doing far worse than staging distasteful parades. another_liberal Aug 2014 #29

That's rich nationalize the fed Aug 2014 #14

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! malaise Aug 2014 #16

Yes, because clearly as a private American citizen I am prohibited from speaking out... Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #19

no, but you may be considered to clean house first reorg Aug 2014 #42

First, I'm not even a Ukrainian citizen, let alone a member of their government. Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #88

you are clearly supporting the Ukrainian government reorg Aug 2014 #90

To the extent that the Ukrainian military has been involved in any type of reckless shelling... Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #94

logical fallacy of tu quoque indeed treestar Aug 2014 #83

The entire Catherina Crowd is just a walking encyclopedia of logical fallacies. nt Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #86

Figures, more tu quoque bullshit. NuclearDem Aug 2014 #43

Well, clearly the Banderite putschistas are staunch believers in human rights. VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #17

Has a certain DUer gone west to the Netherlands on his DU vacation? Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #20

Red-bait much? VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #22

Regardless, you seem to have a rather twisted view of events of the Odessa riots.... Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #24

Sigh. Denies dozens were burned alive or died of smoke inhalation in VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #26

In addition to those who were strangled or shot reorg Aug 2014 #39

Double sigh. Show me where I "denied" anything. Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #48

Like all neo-liberal Russophobes, you provide absolutely no sourcing WHATSOEVER VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #54

Well, given the fact that I was actually watching the events live.... Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #55

Oh, you were in Odessa at the time, were you? Were you embedded with VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #56

There was a live feed. I saw it as it happened. Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #57

Since every independent report AFTER THE FACT made no reference VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #58

You believe we are done? Or do you just not want to listen? Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #60

Apparently there are some fairly widespread protests against....... socialist_n_TN Aug 2014 #18

Careful or you'll get red-baited by the 'classy' ones. VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #23

And why not?.... socialist_n_TN Aug 2014 #25

Why Not, Indeed, Sir The Magistrate Aug 2014 #27

With all due respect, Sir, it's metaphorical red-baiting to insinuate that VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #28

Defending Putin, Sir, Is Defending Fascism The Magistrate Aug 2014 #30

Putin is President in a country with a multi-party parliament (the Duma). I'm not sure VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #31

You Need To Get Out More, Sir The Magistrate Aug 2014 #32

I do not believe we will convince one another as to whether the Russian Federation VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #33

I Am Not Interested In Convincing You, Sir The Magistrate Aug 2014 #34

I recommend stretching before trying that posture. Easy to pull a hamstring doing that. Throd Aug 2014 #37

Traits of fascism: ultranationalism, militarism, devotion to a strong leader, the right of strong pampango Aug 2014 #69

Western media is definitely leaving that story alone . . . another_liberal Aug 2014 #40

victories of anti-Kiev powers its a good news rus084 Aug 2014 #35

Welcome to DU, rus084! another_liberal Aug 2014 #36

Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2014 #46

Buh Bye to DU, rus084! IronGate Aug 2014 #62

I can't tell if this is parody of a Pootlicker or not. Throd Aug 2014 #38

Right... NuclearDem Aug 2014 #44

Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2014 #45

From your post comrade. nt. IronGate Aug 2014 #52

Oh, so it's okay, because Stalin did it before. Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #47

Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2014 #49

....... Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #50

Terminated Over a Link To 'Veterans Today', Sir The Magistrate Aug 2014 #64

He's not the only one on this thread citings Veterans Today, FWIW. nt Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #74

Does anybody know rogerashton Aug 2014 #53

Since the Ukrainian National Guard routinely calls the 'rebel forces' (sic) it is VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #59

So you chide me for supposedly fabricating allegations regarding the mob violence in Odessa... Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #61

You think it's likely that the UNG are summarily executing separatists? IronGate Aug 2014 #63

Tymoshenko said they all (civilians and combatants alike) should be exterminated. I can't VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #66

So, IOW, you're making shit up without any proof? IronGate Aug 2014 #68

Unless I'm mistaken, I'm owed an apology (not that I'm VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #71

That's not proof that the UNG is executing prisoners. IronGate Aug 2014 #75

How about the Washington Post? VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #77

OMG. IronGate Aug 2014 #80

We're done, dude, as every attempt to satisfy your objections is met with VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #81

IOW, you've been schooled and now you're admitting defeat. IronGate Aug 2014 #82

Brave Sir Robin over here. Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #87

Yup. I'd say you're pretty much "done, dude". Tarheel_Dem Aug 2014 #105

Good luck getting this poster to admit anything. Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #79

You were right, IronGate Aug 2014 #84

Wonderful Hate Site You Link To, Sir The Magistrate Aug 2014 #89

Thanks for providing those links. Sounds like a source that should be avoided at all costs. n/t Tarheel_Dem Aug 2014 #106

you certainly do hold others to a higher standard than you hold yourself to. LanternWaste Aug 2014 #65

I made it clear that I was stating an opinion, one based upon the inferences drawn from the VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #67

If you're claiming it as a fact, then, yeah, you should. nt. IronGate Aug 2014 #70

See post #71 and below: VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #73

Veteranstoday? Really? IronGate Aug 2014 #76

How about the Washington Post? VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #78

And yet you're not willing to recognize basic facts regarding the Odessa riots? Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #72

Are there any other news sources reporting this? nt. IronGate Aug 2014 #85

Nothing owned by Rupert Murdoch, not a one. another_liberal Aug 2014 #91

Ha!!!! IronGate Aug 2014 #92

You are welcome . . . another_liberal Aug 2014 #95

How is it my opinion? IronGate Aug 2014 #97

After losing Slavyansk? moondust Aug 2014 #93

True, that town was lost . . . another_liberal Aug 2014 #96

Only if Russia intervenes directly with combat troops, IronGate Aug 2014 #98