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brooklynite

(96,882 posts)

69. Let's step back from "expertise".....lets look at FACTS

Thu Aug 28, 2014, 03:26 PM

Aug 2014

It is a FACT that, while unannounced, both Obama and Clinton were lining up political and financial support in the year before their announcements. Visits to Iowa notwithstanding, Sanders is achieving nothing close to that; RFH has ligned up several million dollars and close to a million supporters encouraging her to run.

It is a FACT that Obama's ability to line up such support was enhanced by his national profile (in part due to his speech at the 2004 Convention) and the impact of his being prospectively the first Black President. Sanders has nothing close to that profile.

It is a FACT that Obama ran as a mainstream Democrat, and that outside of the IWR, had no substantive policy differences with Clinton. Sanders will, by design, be running as a far more left-focused candidate which is likely to limit his appeal among Democrats in Red and Purple States.

Again, welcome him to the fray; I just don't think supporters should blind themselves to the obstacles he'll face in running.

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Run, Bernie, Run! [View all] ChisolmTrailDem Aug 2014 OP

I'm down with the fund-raisers if they call them "Weekend at Bernie's"! WinkyDink Aug 2014 #1

He just all but confirmed that he is exploring the possibilty of running for president. ChisolmTrailDem Aug 2014 #2

PLEASE, Universe, have him become a Democrat! (Well, he IS what one ought to be already!) WinkyDink Aug 2014 #5

A frank concern about a Sander's candidacy ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #3

In a nation where a Purple Heart = cowardice and 9/11 = "kept us safe," does reality matter? WinkyDink Aug 2014 #6

He should own it and turn it back from being a dirty word. Cleita Aug 2014 #7

No it won't ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #15

I'm sure camp Hillary will try to smear him if they feel he's a threat. That true. eom Cleita Aug 2014 #19

That would be a violation of ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #23

If you say so. Cleita Aug 2014 #27

I guess you didn't hear my sarcastic tone. eom. 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #32

Maybe too subtle for me. Use the emoticon to dispel all doubt. n/t Cleita Aug 2014 #41

No, the "socialist" label will be used to smear Democrats, as it always is. They say Obama is a pnwmom Aug 2014 #33

This is our problem. When we refuse to own it, they will continue to make it into a dirty word. Cleita Aug 2014 #38

Your daughter-in-law is a reasonable, rational person. The people who accuse Dems of being pnwmom Aug 2014 #39

Not all ignorant people are tea baggers. They are misinformed because they weren't taught the Cleita Aug 2014 #40

But a "firebrand" is less likely to change minds. Angry politicians tend to turn people off, pnwmom Aug 2014 #42

Bernie is not angry. Where do you get that? Cleita Aug 2014 #44

Did you read about his most recent Town Hall? He told a questioner to shut up. pnwmom Aug 2014 #45

I stand corrected and maybe the asshole needed to shut up. Cleita Aug 2014 #48

I think Elizabeth Warren could be a successful national candidate, if she had the organization. pnwmom Aug 2014 #49

They did the same to Dennis Kucinich and will do the same to Warren if she runs. Cleita Aug 2014 #50

LOL! Barney Frank has zero room to talk about offending people. merrily Aug 2014 #76

I guess this explains ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #82

I am a huge fan of Bernies, however mimi85 Aug 2014 #135

I agree with your first three points ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #136

When the repugs can make a big deal about a tan suit JaydenD Aug 2014 #131

Let's not worry so much about what the reThugs will say. Fuck em all. Go Bernie. JaydenD Aug 2014 #130

I agree this is a concern and it is what they would use against him in the general. Can we educate jwirr Aug 2014 #8

I am far less optimistic ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #16

I see what you are saying. Maybe we cannot educated a people who do not want to be educated. jwirr Aug 2014 #24

I would love for him to be in the primaries ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #26

Oh, yes economics is not the only issue. I want to know a lot of other things she things. This world jwirr Aug 2014 #36

I'm pretty comfortable ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #37

If we were going to educate people on that, we should have started years ago. n/t pnwmom Aug 2014 #43

Can't be as bad with that element as being black was.... nt ChisolmTrailDem Aug 2014 #9

I don't know about that ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #18

He could do a lot of good just by destigmatizing that label Jim Lane Aug 2014 #46

Probably not in our time now, but I will support him all I can until he withdraws or we have Dustlawyer Aug 2014 #55

Which is why we MUST have a Democratic President ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #60

That is beginning to seem like a possible happening. Bohunk68 Aug 2014 #95

I suspect that Silver will disappoint ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #96

He has run and self-identified as an Independent for years. merrily Aug 2014 #77

Look again ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #80

I do not know who changed his wiki or why, but it does not reflect the reality. merrily Aug 2014 #83

Why are you attempting to distance Sanders from his Democratic Socialist belief ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #92

Erm, you raised a point. I responded. But: how is running as an Indie merrily Aug 2014 #116

He should embrace it and EDUCATE people what he wants to do. GIVE US A REASON Vincardog Aug 2014 #101

For me, the GOP and SCOTUS is reason enough. eom. 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #102

I set my sites higher. We need strong leadership in opposition to the Corporate Vincardog Aug 2014 #103

I agree ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #106

I believe you criticism speaks more to the disfunction of our Legislative Vincardog Aug 2014 #107

The legislature would have changed with a Sanders Presidency. eom. 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #109

Hopefully it WILL change with a Sanders Presidency. Vincardog Aug 2014 #111

And, if it doesn't? eom 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #120

It won't be due to lack of effort on MY part. Can you say the same? Vincardog Aug 2014 #121

Yes ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #122

I am a local precinct captain and support every liberal Candidate I can Vincardog Aug 2014 #123

Very good ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #124

Him going to Iowa for an appearance seems to indicate he's going Cleita Aug 2014 #4

He said he's exploring his options but he's also trying to ChisolmTrailDem Aug 2014 #11

Both he and Thom Hartmann, whose show he's a regular on, have Cleita Aug 2014 #12

The "R" word? eom. 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #20

Revolution? Cleita Aug 2014 #25

Running? ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #31

Meh. Bernie should stick with his independence. He should not cynically take on a label just for... Tarheel_Dem Aug 2014 #10

He'll be in N. Carolina in the next day or two. Perhaps you could ChisolmTrailDem Aug 2014 #13

I know what he has to say. He's been saying the same shit for a couple of decades, but his..... Tarheel_Dem Aug 2014 #17

Why you keep whacking at the bee hive with that stick of truth ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #22

I've asked that question nearly everytime one of these Bernie/Kooch lovefests get underway. Tarheel_Dem Aug 2014 #29

You're gonna get sent to bed without dinner! ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #35

Some Dems like to support Independants... adirondacker Aug 2014 #14

Was Liebermann running for POTUS on the "Democratic" ticket in that photo op? Tarheel_Dem Aug 2014 #21

I think he was running for endorser of McCain and Palin at the time, while supporting the decider*. adirondacker Aug 2014 #51

Care to elaborate what those amendments were? How many bills has he authored? Naming post.... Tarheel_Dem Aug 2014 #56

"Bernie will wear the exact same "extremist" label that follows Ted Cruz, Sarah Palin," adirondacker Aug 2014 #62

Senator Barack Obama knew what the rest of us knew, that Bernie belongs in.... Tarheel_Dem Aug 2014 #64

Someone has to bring sanity to the party adirondacker Aug 2014 #65

"Someone" coulda done that years ago by joining "the party". Joining now just reeks of desparation. Tarheel_Dem Aug 2014 #66

Why would you want him to split the party up and become a pariah like Mr. Nader? adirondacker Aug 2014 #67

He should hold true to his values, and his party affiliation. I prefer Bernie leave my party alone. Tarheel_Dem Aug 2014 #68

Did he run on Clinton's ticket? Was it someone else? nt. NCTraveler Aug 2014 #99

If Bernie runs as a Dem, he will not do so cynically. I cannot think of a single thing he merrily Aug 2014 #84

"Bernie won anyway". That's exactly my point. He ran on his own ticket and his own money. Tarheel_Dem Aug 2014 #100

I don't think that was the point of your prior post, but there's no probem with ANY strategy. merrily Aug 2014 #110

It's been "my point" all along. Switching to access Dem dollars & infrastructure is beneath Bernie. Tarheel_Dem Aug 2014 #117

You think it "should" be. Principled people can disagree about that. merrily Aug 2014 #118

My "principles" weren't at issue. I was born a Democrat, and have never shunned the label. Tarheel_Dem Aug 2014 #119

Everyone, include you, me and Bernie, is entited to his or her own opinion on this matter and merrily Aug 2014 #133

This might give him a chance sadoldgirl Aug 2014 #28

Sanders has been around for decades, so his low visibility is more of a factor than it was for Obama pnwmom Aug 2014 #30

Bernie did not seek the national spotlight. No reason to assume it will elude him if he seeks it. merrily Aug 2014 #85

He'll get a spotlight all right, because the media loves a horserace. But eventually pnwmom Aug 2014 #90

I don't think the media turned on Dean all on its own. But never mind that. merrily Aug 2014 #108

2014 will be a telling election Politicalboi Aug 2014 #34

K & R !!! WillyT Aug 2014 #47

I got nothing against Barry Sanders bluestateguy Aug 2014 #52

Who knows, you may be right. But that was also said about electing a black man. nt ChisolmTrailDem Aug 2014 #53

And our punishment is Neo-Liberal centrists or Neo-Con radicals, Both who serve 1% orpupilofnature57 Aug 2014 #58

He's not a socialist. He's not Barry either. merrily Aug 2014 #86

A true servant of the People or the 1% ,, orpupilofnature57 Aug 2014 #54

Bernie Sanders will turn 75 in 2016. Laelth Aug 2014 #57

Yes, he is a few years older than both Hilary and Warren. None of them is young, though. merrily Aug 2014 #87

"Barack Obama is proof that Hillary is not a given." Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #59

Subscribing to " Expertise " is harmful to your brain . orpupilofnature57 Aug 2014 #61

I know,...to listen to them Libaralism is wildly unpopular because they can cite a poll about Obama. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #63

Let's step back from "expertise".....lets look at FACTS brooklynite Aug 2014 #69

The fray may very well be the Wall Street Wing this time around... adirondacker Aug 2014 #70

Funny how the Republicans don't worry about someone being too Conservative. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #71

Funny how the Republicans have lost 5 of the last 6 Presidential elections brooklynite Aug 2014 #72

Exactly. The argument is that we need to go to the Right to follow their success. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #73

or, the argument is we need to go to the center where the most votes are brooklynite Aug 2014 #75

If you drop labels and don't try to change minds, USians poll liberal by something like 70% merrily Aug 2014 #78

+1. To move to the true center, we'd need to go left. n/t winter is coming Aug 2014 #91

The media has been taken over by the Right.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #97

We are center right. merrily Aug 2014 #113

It's time the hand wringing over being "hurt" comes to an end. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #98

I'm very sorry but I am not sure what your reply to me means. merrily Aug 2014 #112

The majority is with us but too many Dems are afraid of a fight.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #127

Ah, thanks for the explanation. merrily Aug 2014 #132

The Republicans blamed the media for the loss of Vietnam and for Watergate.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #137

Sorry, spitfire, but the fairness doctrine was not eliminated under Reagan. merrily Aug 2014 #138

You assume Clinton was a Liberal. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #140

Oh, no I don't. He was a founding member of the DLC and the first Presidential merrily Aug 2014 #141

If Hillary wins then all those people will return. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #143

Yes, but a lot of them returned to Obama's administration and merrily Aug 2014 #144

Obama had a lot of very Liberal people on his team.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #145

Obama practically duplicated the Clinton admin team when Obama got into the White house, merrily Aug 2014 #146

The DLC used the Dukakis loss and the Clinton win to justify their shifting the party to the right. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #147

They used McGovern and Mondale more. merrily Aug 2014 #148

You will discover a lot of the folks under Carter were members of the Trilateral Commission. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #152

I am not familiar with that. Was/is it something like the Bilderburgs? merrily Sep 2014 #154

The Trilateral Commission was dismissed as a conspiracy theory during the Vietnam war... Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2014 #156

There are certainly many organizations like that today! merrily Sep 2014 #157

It goes back to what is considered "fact".... Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2014 #160

Here is my reply to someone who cited Mondale and McGovern. merrily Aug 2014 #149

The major gas lines everyone remembers were in 1973 under Nixon... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #150

I don't think those were the ones they remembered when they voted against Carter. Maybe, but I merrily Sep 2014 #155

People voted against Carter because the media was railing about the hostages.... Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2014 #158

I think it was both, the hostages and the gas lines. And more. merrily Sep 2014 #161

There was no manditory rationing under Carter. There was panic buying by a hysterical public.... Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2014 #162

There were gas lines and a lousy economy and Koppel and media and the hostages and more. merrily Sep 2014 #163

True, then Reagan and Daddy Bush spent the next 12 years blaming Carter for everything. Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2014 #164

Republican posters still refuse to give him credit for anything, even peace merrily Sep 2014 #165

Well sure,...they claimed trickle down didn't work because Carter left them in a hole... Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2014 #166

Meh. In private, when no sane person is around to contradict them, they probably do find a way to merrily Sep 2014 #168

They still say Ollie was a patriot. Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2014 #170

And that's where sane people can hear them. Imagine what they say in private. merrily Sep 2014 #171

In private? They'd like to haul every Democrat out for public execution by hanging for treason. Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2014 #172

By "center" that means further to the Right than Reagan. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #93

GAy rights, reproductive rights, opposing Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, health care coverage... brooklynite Aug 2014 #104

It isn't 1980 anymore either, though. In the 1990s, Clinton signed DOMA and asked Congress to pass merrily Aug 2014 #115

Reagan was a Marxist compared to today's GOP. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #125

correcting my prior post: USians poll traditional Democrat, as opposed to New Democrat. merrily Aug 2014 #134

It is a fact that Obama ran to the left of Hillary and won both the primary and the General-- merrily Aug 2014 #81

The media also said Obama would be President as soon as he finished his 2004 speech. merrily Aug 2014 #89

Matthews had more than a leg tingle over Rudy. Not to mention Bush in a flight suit. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #94

When Bush was in a flight suit, MSNBC was very different than it is now. merrily Aug 2014 #114

Tweety has "issues".... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #126

Bernie..pplllllleeeeeeasaassssee RUN! undergroundpanther Aug 2014 #74

I am all for Bernie running. Whether he wins or loses, people need to hear again what they knew in merrily Aug 2014 #79

If he runs, he'll fold quick--he doesn't have the ground organization. And woe to him if he msanthrope Aug 2014 #88

+1 Tarheel_Dem Aug 2014 #128

-1 adirondacker Aug 2014 #139

Would love it if he ran as a Democrat. NCTraveler Aug 2014 #105

I like this news JaydenD Aug 2014 #129

K & r. n/t wildbilln864 Aug 2014 #142

Hell Yah!!! Go Bernie! ~nt 99th_Monkey Aug 2014 #151

I support Bernie Sanders completely MissDeeds Aug 2014 #153

I understand why you might disagree, but why is it troubling? brooklynite Sep 2014 #159

Obama always seemed eminently electable to me. Unvanguard Sep 2014 #169

He should run, I would vote for him, he would lose the primary but that's fine Unvanguard Sep 2014 #167