General Discussion

NutmegYankee

(16,477 posts)

54. How can you not?

Sat Aug 30, 2014, 02:18 PM

Aug 2014

Pledges should always be taken freely and without reservation. If a person chooses not to do so, we should respect that. This falls under the freedom of faith provisions - you have the right to your freedom of conscience.

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Mayor orders man removed after he didn't stand for Pledge of Allegiance [View all] trumad Aug 2014 OP

Patriotism is the last refuge chervilant Aug 2014 #1

No, there's a rung lower. The Jesus card. nt valerief Aug 2014 #12

Good point. chervilant Aug 2014 #18

Ditto. Religion is the most effective brainwashing tool of the ruling class. nt valerief Aug 2014 #24

So well said! Nothing works like propagandizing the faithful. They are ready made putty, ready RKP5637 Aug 2014 #104

But then again this person who refused to stand for the anthem may have been a Jovah's Witness. jwirr Aug 2014 #42

Jehovah's Witnesses stand for pledge but... NOVA_Dem Aug 2014 #76

Making it, somehow, "for the troops" is particularly odious. MNBrewer Aug 2014 #22

Yeah, sounds very "for the children"ish. Everything oppressive is done, it seems, valerief Aug 2014 #35

What to do, what to do? The mayor thought the troops died to give him the freedom to A Simple Game Aug 2014 #36

I find it particularly heinous chervilant Aug 2014 #49

Particularly skanky too. lonestarnot Aug 2014 #122

with all due respect, it is the first. unblock Aug 2014 #44

Perhaps It's Both, UB ProfessorGAC Aug 2014 #82

Mayor needs to be removed for lack of comprehension of what is in the Constitution hobbit709 Aug 2014 #2

Too bad these people end up being called, "mayor"� MrMickeysMom Aug 2014 #58

About patriotism or failure to obey his honor the authoritarian? HereSince1628 Aug 2014 #3

Why do I live in Florida? demwing Aug 2014 #4

No state tax? valerief Aug 2014 #13

nope, i'd welcome a state tax demwing Aug 2014 #28

And I can afford to live on an island ... CaptainTruth Aug 2014 #17

Some days I marvel at my commute demwing Aug 2014 #31

In my case Thespian2 Aug 2014 #21

I actually have a love/hate relationship with Florida demwing Aug 2014 #38

So the Mayor got his panties in a wad over THIS? Kath1 Aug 2014 #5

Well, to be accurate, pangaia Aug 2014 #14

AKA a loyalty oath thesquanderer Aug 2014 #26

Yup, they are SUPPOSED to, aren't they. pangaia Aug 2014 #51

No, to a nation under the rule of god. valerief Aug 2014 #33

I learned it without the reference to god also. pangaia Aug 2014 #52

That doesn't make it any less weird and creepy Spider Jerusalem Aug 2014 #48

True, that. pangaia Aug 2014 #53

"And to the Republic for which it stands" Kath1 Aug 2014 #61

Well, we have to keep ourselves honest, pangaia Aug 2014 #62

You're right about that! Kath1 Aug 2014 #63

It's a Mr. Rees, wrapped in a riddle, inside an enigma Thor_MN Aug 2014 #6

I suspect that the good citizens of Winter Garden ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #7

I agree that some money will likely change hands. Jim Lane Aug 2014 #9

LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #11

Would someone remind TNNurse Aug 2014 #8

That would be nice! Kath1 Aug 2014 #64

Power and Control. The real motive behind the RWNJ actions. littlemissmartypants Aug 2014 #10

and that wheel keeps going round and round, faster and faster valerief Aug 2014 #15

Great graphic. Thank you. jwirr Aug 2014 #43

Argh. No fuss in my southern public school when we quit saying the prayer or the pledge. freshwest Aug 2014 #16

He's not alone. I won't pledge or sing anything nationalistic. I walk out if I can. L0oniX Aug 2014 #19

First thing the guy should do is go find a good lawyer . . . brush Aug 2014 #20

He should win against the mayor but maybe not against the city and the cops Jim Lane Aug 2014 #50

"When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying a cross" Sinclair Lewis Hestia Aug 2014 #23

Does the mayor really not see the hypocrisy of his statement? CaptainTruth Aug 2014 #25

'With Liberty and Justice for some'' Ichingcarpenter Aug 2014 #27

any action the commision took at the meeting should be voided rdking647 Aug 2014 #29

Fuck off Rees, it's called freedom of speech. blackspade Aug 2014 #30

This John Rees character sees himself as the new Judge Roy Moore. bullwinkle428 Aug 2014 #32

It's about time disruptors like this were put in their place! randome Aug 2014 #34

And Expressing Anger Over The Color Of A Suit! ProfessorGAC Aug 2014 #83

I don't stand, anymore, either. heaven05 Aug 2014 #37

I'm sure I'll draw the wrath of other posters in this thread but, 3rdwaydem Aug 2014 #39

Thanks 3rd way dem Ichingcarpenter Aug 2014 #41

How can you not? NutmegYankee Aug 2014 #54

Uh huh.... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Aug 2014 #55

Try the first amendment. Ms. Toad Aug 2014 #56

LOL, says a lot about you. Nt Logical Aug 2014 #74

Judging from you posts, you might not really be a 3rd way dem. BillZBubb Sep 2014 #127

Patterning your life to please Glen BecKKK is really pathetic. lpbk2713 Aug 2014 #40

*Liberty*. That's what it means. I THINK. Doesn't it? nt Smarmie Doofus Aug 2014 #45

Yah, it's bad- but I remember packman Aug 2014 #46

How could he be elected 1Greensix Aug 2014 #47

This message was self-deleted by its author MrMickeysMom Aug 2014 #57

Really? How is demanding that someone say, or stand for, the pledge of allegiance Ms. Toad Aug 2014 #59

For starters, the 1st Amendment doesn't "demand" anything... MrMickeysMom Aug 2014 #60

Did you read the analysis? Ms. Toad Aug 2014 #67

Now, THAT'S a pretty screwy analysis, Ms. Toad MrMickeysMom Aug 2014 #70

Not an elected official - but I happen to be an attorney Ms. Toad Aug 2014 #72

You may teach law, but you don't provide any case law for this at a local level... MrMickeysMom Aug 2014 #73

The mayor is the one who took the action - Ms. Toad Aug 2014 #79

How was my pointing this out to you "condescending"? MrMickeysMom Aug 2014 #88

You are not reading very carefully. Ms. Toad Aug 2014 #93

And boom goes the dynamite. trumad Aug 2014 #97

Thanks - Ms. Toad Aug 2014 #98

Oh, you're right about he or she must know the laws� but, for God's sake... MrMickeysMom Aug 2014 #111

Woopsie. lonestarnot Aug 2014 #123

Sometimes it's better to remember the old saying COLGATE4 Sep 2014 #132

True - but I started out with a nice short, simple explanation. Ms. Toad Sep 2014 #133

Understood, I read the whole thread and thought COLGATE4 Sep 2014 #141

That's why I haven't responded to the last post. Ms. Toad Sep 2014 #142

Yep. nt COLGATE4 Sep 2014 #143

My self-deleted post... MrMickeysMom Aug 2014 #113

No disrespect intended toward "troops" awoke_in_2003 Aug 2014 #65

Instead of "Support our Troops" indie9197 Aug 2014 #90

Looks like few if any actually read the article. whistler162 Aug 2014 #66

And why does that matter? Ms. Toad Aug 2014 #68

So if he always leaves early on his own, why did the mayor feel the urge to throw him out?? Blue_Tires Aug 2014 #69

LOL, you really miss the point? Wow! nt Logical Aug 2014 #75

No all of you seem to evade and whistler162 Aug 2014 #84

LOL, OK, now I get it. Him not standing is annoying you also. nt Logical Aug 2014 #91

No - you're missing the point. Ms. Toad Aug 2014 #99

Uh ... "Freedom," right? Arugula Latte Aug 2014 #89

Yes, it's religious freedom, the most important freedom there is ... progree Aug 2014 #92

My post was actually in reply to #66, which seemed to be defending the theocratic assholes Arugula Latte Aug 2014 #94

Yup. I was agreeing with you in my #92. And I don't quite know what w...162 is trying progree Aug 2014 #95

Actually - the choice he was given is a pure speech issue. Ms. Toad Aug 2014 #100

Many people refuse to say the pledge or stand up for it because of the "under God" phrase progree Aug 2014 #102

Correct - but the violation here Ms. Toad Aug 2014 #105

Jehovah's Witnesses are forbidden *by their religion* tblue37 Aug 2014 #107

The issue here really wasn't religion. Ms. Toad Aug 2014 #110

What if he was asked to stand for the Pledge, period, without the stuff about showing respect for progree Aug 2014 #116

Given that he was "allowed" to sit during the prayer, Ms. Toad Aug 2014 #118

What if he asked people to stand for the prayer, with no other option except to leave? progree Aug 2014 #120

Not sure where you're getting anything about standing or leaving for the prayer Ms. Toad Aug 2014 #121

Once again - can the mayor force people to stand for the prayer? (or else leave)? progree Aug 2014 #124

I was discussing what happened - not what might happen at some other place and time. Ms. Toad Sep 2014 #126

Please read #125 progree Sep 2014 #128

Please read this from FFRF, and then argue that FFRF doesn't think a religious issue is at stake progree Sep 2014 #125

Have you watched the tape? Ms. Toad Sep 2014 #129

Does that change the Establishment Clause? progree Sep 2014 #131

The highest courts which have reviewed it Ms. Toad Sep 2014 #134

Clearly, the FFRF begs to differ. See #131 - clearly is making the argument about standing progree Sep 2014 #135

It is free to make whatever argument it wants. Ms. Toad Sep 2014 #136

Forcing people to stand for it is different. That is their issue. On religious grounds n/t progree Sep 2014 #137

Forced standing for the pledge cases have already been decided - Ms. Toad Sep 2014 #138

This message was self-deleted by its author progree Sep 2014 #139

This message was self-deleted by its author progree Sep 2014 #140

Thank you, I will. I always fight for quixotic causes like separation of church and state progree Sep 2014 #144

As to Barnette - Ms. Toad Sep 2014 #145

How many times do you need to recite the pledge? Owl Aug 2014 #71

I pledged allegiance to the Constitution when I was inducted into the military in the early '70s... Journeyman Aug 2014 #77

I stopped reciting the Pledge years ago. SheilaT Aug 2014 #78

One of our city council members refuses to say the Pledge or put his hand over his heart progree Aug 2014 #80

Does he leave the meeting each time whistler162 Aug 2014 #85

He is a City Council member. He has to stay to fulfill his duities. Not at all understanding progree Aug 2014 #87

When he leaves is completely irrelevant. Ms. Toad Aug 2014 #103

Irrelevant. It doesn't matter how often he exercises his constitutionally guaranteed rights. tblue37 Aug 2014 #108

And now the mayor can use city funds to fight an ACLU lawsuit, instead of fix potholes Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #81

Nope, no lawsuit from the citizen whistler162 Aug 2014 #86

It is a clear violation of the First Amendment. Ms. Toad Aug 2014 #106

Very clear violation. tabasco Aug 2014 #115

Exactly. Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #119

Nope--he probably intended to create a test case for just such a suit, and tblue37 Aug 2014 #109

"I gave him an option." Paladin Aug 2014 #96

Nothing says "Freedom" quite like the phrase "loyalty oath required" does it? arcane1 Aug 2014 #101

Well said. XRubicon Aug 2014 #112

Yep... MrMickeysMom Aug 2014 #114

Why I do not salute the flag Generic Other Aug 2014 #117

I've don't do the the Pledge of Allegence Boudica the Lyoness Sep 2014 #130