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newthinking

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114. Of course history is never a part of propaganda. The truth is **Ukraine** originally annexed Crimea

Sun Aug 31, 2014, 09:56 PM

Aug 2014

against it's wishes.

People really need to be careful with what they believe and listen to and RESEARCH. Because with something as big as what is happening in Ukraine there are always interests playing with facts.

When the USSR was breaking up Crimea fought to stay in Russia. It was imposed on them. They were given a compromise and that is how that name you always hear "Autonomous Republic of Crimea" comes from. They insisted on and had a separate constitution to assure that they would remain autonomous. Of course Ukraine did not want that and (with the help of a little corruption), they had their court rewrite Crimea's constitution (does the referendum now become a little clearer? Why the second option restored the original constitution, it was to at the least right a wrong).

Ukraine **annexed** crimea. Even then Crimea fought against it but could not stop it.

Things seem to make much more sense once one understands the history.

That is also why the west was so quick to resign themselves to it. Officials knew that this was authentic and that Crimeans view it as writing a historical wrong.

It is unfortunate that things happened the way they did because I believe that Ukrainians actually would have been content with the constitution being righted. But with the coup they had no confidence in the future and moved to the safest option

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Anyone else getting tired of seeing people carry water for homophobic expansionist tyrants? [View all] Kurska Aug 2014 OP

Because he gave asylum to Snowden? MH1 Aug 2014 #1

I support what Snowden did. I despise Putin and his imperialist aggression. Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2014 #14

what happened to the story Billy Budd Aug 2014 #18

They got away with it. As expected. 7962 Aug 2014 #37

we have proof Billy Budd Aug 2014 #81

There is no proof. Russia just three days ago demanded ballyhoo Aug 2014 #85

You're a laugh riot. HERVEPA Aug 2014 #106

From the telegrah...You're a riot too. ballyhoo Aug 2014 #110

Ever hear of the word disingenuous? HERVEPA Aug 2014 #111

How about you? Ever hear of the word substantive? ballyhoo Aug 2014 #113

Jesus H. Christ. HERVEPA Aug 2014 #139

You open with Jesus and close with Pol Pot? Putin is far closer to ballyhoo Aug 2014 #141

Exactly. How many times have we debunked that claim already? stevenleser Aug 2014 #129

who can blame them for demanding data or a report or something Billy Budd Aug 2014 #107

I agree. I was pretty sure who downed that ballyhoo Aug 2014 #112

Did you get lost? HERVEPA Aug 2014 #142

you are in effect dismissing me ....what or who is Billy Budd Sep 2014 #150

The rebels proudly took responsibility when they thought it was a military plane 7962 Aug 2014 #135

Someone sent a report to the website. I suspect they saw newthinking Jan 2015 #170

The US isn't perfect and until we build a time machine Coventina Aug 2014 #2

Thank GOD I read that twice.. Peacetrain Aug 2014 #47

Sorry for the scare! Coventina Aug 2014 #51

No no.. I have dyslexia.. and my eye will skip Peacetrain Aug 2014 #53

The first thing we need to do is as liberals is recognize the propaganda we are under newthinking Aug 2014 #63

"while definitely behind in it's approach to LGBT rights" HERVEPA Aug 2014 #108

Yep, apologia for Russia's homophobia and antisemitism in one comment. stevenleser Aug 2014 #125

Beyond pathetic Kurska Aug 2014 #133

This message was self-deleted by its author newthinking Jan 2015 #169

Yep Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Aug 2014 #3

They lost all credibility with me when they swore up and down Russia wasn't invading the Crimea Kurska Aug 2014 #4

If anyone expected Russia to give up that port then they are nuts pro, anti, or between on Putin TheKentuckian Aug 2014 #11

So it is okay to invade and annex your neighors territory Kurska Aug 2014 #13

What about my statement says anything is okay (or not okay either)? TheKentuckian Aug 2014 #23

It's only okay if you're Israel. Crunchy Frog Aug 2014 #56

Exactly! ballyhoo Aug 2014 #75

It is when a western power sends over a team to depose a president in said ballyhoo Aug 2014 #74

As I said on #3 Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Aug 2014 #124

Yeah, the truth hurts except when it is conveniently ignored. ballyhoo Aug 2014 #128

So you're admitting you're wrong? Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Sep 2014 #158

Not I who is wrong. But that's okay. I know what's ballyhoo Sep 2014 #160

Of course history is never a part of propaganda. The truth is **Ukraine** originally annexed Crimea newthinking Aug 2014 #114

Russia was never going to lose the port. geek tragedy Aug 2014 #20

We still have a base in Cuba without taking over Cuba. It was an excuse for Putin 7962 Aug 2014 #38

So you respond to this thread castigating posters for taking Russia's ballyhoo Aug 2014 #77

Excellent point. They were never going to lose it. That's a trumped up excuse. One of many stevenleser Aug 2014 #127

Hillary called it in March, It is the Nazi playbook Protalker Aug 2014 #33

And how does this relate to moving water? 4b5f940728b232b034e4 Aug 2014 #5

Carry water for is an idiom Kurska Aug 2014 #6

Wow. That really just happened, didn't it? nt Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2014 #15

Drax the Destroyer must have joined DU. nt geek tragedy Aug 2014 #22

Pffth! Dr. Strange Aug 2014 #104

Yep. Maybe someone from another country has joined?? 7962 Aug 2014 #40

Hey don't diss Kurska Aug 2014 #131

Well, foreigners wouldnt be familiar with sayings like the OP used 7962 Aug 2014 #136

And how specifically did these posters to the "bidding of someone"? Did any of ballyhoo Aug 2014 #78

Jesus, I'm not saying they ought to be run out of the country. Kurska Aug 2014 #84

The invasion, word and deed, became empty once ballyhoo Aug 2014 #88

And there you go n/t Kurska Aug 2014 #94

Yeah, you were just talking to one.. Cha Aug 2014 #105

The US is the expansionist tyrant eridani Aug 2014 #7

You got a Russia Today link you can share? emulatorloo Aug 2014 #8

You don't need any links to know that the "com" in Centcom, Northcom, eridani Aug 2014 #26

Uh. What? NuclearDem Aug 2014 #28

It is a clear statement of military hegemony over an area eridani Aug 2014 #29

They call theirs "Joint Strategic Command (direction)" jeff47 Aug 2014 #61

That refers to areas on their border. Is Centcom, Africom or Southcom about our borders? n/t eridani Aug 2014 #64

Nope. It also covers who commands areas beyond their borders. (nt) jeff47 Aug 2014 #70

So where are their 800+ military bases? n/t eridani Aug 2014 #73

Ah yes, time to change the subject. jeff47 Aug 2014 #87

The subject is imperialism The OP says Russia is waging imperialist war eridani Aug 2014 #89

Ask the Chechens. Those that Putin geek tragedy Aug 2014 #91

Another border spat. Where are the bases in Africa and South America? n/t eridani Aug 2014 #93

Border spat? Chechnya sought independence geek tragedy Aug 2014 #95

I see it as a really nasty and unnecessary overreaction to terrorism eridani Aug 2014 #97

The bases come after the invasion. jeff47 Aug 2014 #100

Whatever you say. NuclearDem Aug 2014 #72

Why does this even have to be about the United States? Kurska Aug 2014 #9

Any referendum beats no referendum eridani Aug 2014 #25

How is NATO encircling Russia? Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2014 #16

That must be why NATO countries have no NATO military bases eridani Aug 2014 #41

If you're going to make an incredibly dumb argument jeff47 Aug 2014 #62

Oops. Sorry, left one out. Why any US military commands that have nothing to do eridani Aug 2014 #65

Because we signed treaties. And we don't ignore our treaties, as Russia does. (nt) jeff47 Aug 2014 #69

Treaties to benefit the world's one percent. eridani Aug 2014 #76

Russia signed a treaty in 1995 saying Crimea was Ukraine's jeff47 Aug 2014 #86

Did anyone ask the Crimeans for their input? eridani Aug 2014 #92

Well, no one asked most of the Crimeans after Russia invaded. jeff47 Aug 2014 #102

It was a referendum, period. Better than 1956 eridani Aug 2014 #103

Ukraine was part of Russia for vastly longer than it was independent jeff47 Sep 2014 #159

Crimeans aren't blowing up people in Boston or Moscow n/t eridani Sep 2014 #166

"The term Centcom indicates that the US empire sees Russia as rightfully under its military dominion Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2014 #116

The population of North America is their enemy eridani Aug 2014 #117

So I'm guessing the "Air Force" is in charge of conquering the air. nt Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2014 #137

Amazing how Putin apologists sound just like US Cold Warriors geek tragedy Aug 2014 #21

What's that got to do with the price of tea in China? Chan790 Aug 2014 #36

Articles 5 and on were unilaterally violated by Putin, using the ousting of whatshisname. freshwest Sep 2014 #168

NATO is on 3% of Russia's border. "encircling"? Please. 7962 Aug 2014 #44

Is Russia on any part of the US border? n/t eridani Aug 2014 #46

So you endorse Reagan's mining of Nicaragua geek tragedy Aug 2014 #79

There is no sense in which Nicaragua was a Russian outpost eridani Aug 2014 #80

Oy. There is no such entity as east Ukraine. geek tragedy Aug 2014 #82

They want autonomy, not secession n/t eridani Aug 2014 #96

And the North attacked the South in the Civil War. It happens when you try to break a country. 7962 Sep 2014 #149

The Azov Batallion is breaking the country eridani Sep 2014 #154

Unfortunately nobody else is helping ukraine so they're taking whatever they can find 7962 Sep 2014 #156

People in the east deserve more autonomy. The Nazi white supremacists eridani Sep 2014 #165

The US attacks country after country killing people and ballyhoo Aug 2014 #83

I don't support fundamentalist extremists of any kind. Initech Aug 2014 #10

Yes--let's just bomb the irrationality out of fundies everywhere eridani Aug 2014 #24

I don't support war of any kind either. Initech Aug 2014 #31

Yup... SidDithers Aug 2014 #12

At this point they have to know they aren't winning any converts. Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2014 #17

all this meta "us" vs. "them" stuff makes DU suck carolinayellowdog Aug 2014 #19

Are you talking about shirtless, balding, bear riding dreamboats? MADem Aug 2014 #27

I'm talking about the world's only actual imperial power, which is not Russia eridani Aug 2014 #45

Well, I was talking to the thread starter, not you...but thanks for your input, I guess. nt MADem Aug 2014 #49

The usual personalities before issues crowd thinks that Putin is the problem eridani Aug 2014 #55

I think Putin is a problem, too. I think he's a despotic, gay hating dictator, actually. MADem Aug 2014 #57

Russia has always been pretty third world in a cultural sense eridani Aug 2014 #58

I think the opposite--I think Russia is culturally RICH RICH RICH. MADem Aug 2014 #60

With a popularity rating of 88 per cent in Russia and 67 per cent worldwide. ballyhoo Aug 2014 #90

George W. Bush managed to beat those numbers for a while, too. MADem Aug 2014 #98

Moscow looks like Beverly Hills. Our Beverly Hills looks like Brentwood. Ask people ballyhoo Aug 2014 #99

Why haven't you relocated to this fabulous paradise? Cold feet, or won't they have you? MADem Aug 2014 #121

I've lived here for all of my life and fought in ballyhoo Aug 2014 #126

Hand picked articles? Please. I gave you a broad variety of sources, from MADem Aug 2014 #138

Russia has the most unequal wealth of any sizeable country in the world muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #146

Yes, Ms. Volestrangler, I know, but IMHO they are moving up ballyhoo Sep 2014 #153

I'm sick of Washington dancing to Riyadh and the Gulf Council's tune since 2011, too MisterP Aug 2014 #30

Same actually n/t Kurska Aug 2014 #32

people always feel like they have to pick a side Marrah_G Aug 2014 #34

+1 KingNebuchadnezzar Aug 2014 #35

bingo Little Star Sep 2014 #157

+1 Blue_Tires Aug 2014 #39

Modern day George, eh? PatrickforO Aug 2014 #50

yeah their comments are not great BlindTiresias Aug 2014 #42

Look closely R3druM Aug 2014 #43

Racist vultures flock to Ukraine eridani Aug 2014 #54

Yep. I'm very, very tired. PatrickforO Aug 2014 #48

Putin is an evil SOB! hrmjustin Aug 2014 #52

If he were replaced tomorrow by a westernized billionaire, Russia would still socially be eridani Aug 2014 #67

I am not advocating replacing him with western billionaire, but he is still evil. hrmjustin Aug 2014 #68

Hey, it's easy to go out and conquer territory Warpy Aug 2014 #59

I don't get it at all ,if he were in this country he'd be sufrommich Aug 2014 #66

well, the paul father/son team seems to be popular among JI7 Sep 2014 #144

Yes I am. ForgoTheConsequence Aug 2014 #71

As they are funding IS, I don't know either. But ballyhoo Aug 2014 #101

Are you kidding!? It's way past time to acknowledge those who are pushing putin RT propaganda.. Cha Aug 2014 #109

The US has bombed 32 nations since 1945. Right now ballyhoo Aug 2014 #118

Yeah, and you're one of those who can't acknowledge Putin's Homophobic Assholery. Cha Aug 2014 #120

Every country has a progression with respect to gay rights. Putin ballyhoo Aug 2014 #122

Oh my lord Kurska Aug 2014 #132

"I am not going hold him responsible for doing what the people want, especially when 6 girls create" Cha Sep 2014 #163

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Coventina Aug 2014 #134

I have seen it too. Had it not been on Olympic grounds ballyhoo Aug 2014 #143

Half of Congress is on the same page as Putin. CJCRANE Sep 2014 #148

So? We point out the Homophobia of those Idiots, too. Fucking Civil Rights abusers are all over Cha Sep 2014 #162

Omg yes WE MUST HAVE A PURGE Warren Stupidity Sep 2014 #151

Yeah, Distract Distract Distract. Cha Sep 2014 #161

"What's not to like about Expansionism?" --R. Hunter Biden nationalize the fed Aug 2014 #115

Anyone else tired of discussing personalities instead of issues? n/t eridani Aug 2014 #119

Lots of "Issues" are discussed and this is one of them. Cha Aug 2014 #123

Yes, and evidently some of them think we will swallow whatever Putin tells them to put in the water! Major Hogwash Aug 2014 #130

I certainly am! 3rdwaydem Aug 2014 #140

The only water I'll carry for Putin - raven mad Sep 2014 #145

Putin is bad, but we make things worse. CJCRANE Sep 2014 #147

Shush. Reason not allowed in this thread. Warren Stupidity Sep 2014 #152

That's not what this OP is about.. no one is asking you to "jump on the neo con bandwagon".. but, Cha Sep 2014 #164

I'm wondering why so many DUers support a fascist putsch in Kiev Dems to Win Sep 2014 #155

Kick & very highly recommended. William769 Sep 2014 #167